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posted by martyb on Tuesday November 14 2017, @07:48PM   Printer-friendly
from the Stayin'-alive!-Stayin'-alive! dept.

Study Suggests Women Less Likely to Get CPR From Bystanders

Women are less likely than men to get CPR from a bystander and more likely to die, a new study suggests, and researchers think reluctance to touch a woman's chest might be one reason.

Only 39 percent of women suffering cardiac arrest in a public place were given CPR versus 45 percent of men, and men were 23 percent more likely to survive, the study found. It involved nearly 20,000 cases around the country and is the first to examine gender differences in receiving heart help from the public versus professional responders.

"It can be kind of daunting thinking about pushing hard and fast on the center of a woman's chest" and some people may fear they are hurting her, said Audrey Blewer, a University of Pennsylvania researcher who led the study. Rescuers also may worry about moving a woman's clothing to get better access, or touching breasts to do CPR, but doing it properly "shouldn't entail that," said another study leader, U Penn's Dr. Benjamin Abella. "You put your hands on the sternum, which is the middle of the chest. In theory, you're touching in between the breasts."

The study was discussed Sunday at an American Heart Association conference in Anaheim.

Get touchy and save women's lives.

Also at Penn Medicine and the American Heart Association. Journal of the American College of Cardiology.

Other study mentioned in the AP article: Sexual Activity as a Trigger for Sudden Cardiac Arrest (DOI: 10.1016/j.jacc.2017.09.025) (DX)

Related study: Sex-Based Disparities in Incidence, Treatment, and Outcomes of Cardiac Arrest in the United States, 2003-2012. (DOI: 10.1161/JAHA.116.003704) (DX)


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  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:14PM (15 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:14PM (#596962)

    This is the reason why. So, if you're trained or just know how to do it, help out, save the life, keep your mouth shut, and leave before anyone starts asking names.

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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:36PM (14 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @08:36PM (#596969) Journal

    I'm trained but I wouldn't perform CPR on a woman unless i knew her well. People are too litigious. You're as likely to be sued for bruising from the procedure "my god he was so rough! I'm traumatized for liiiife!" As you are for touching her chest.

    If i was a paramedic or EMT who is indemnified by a hospital even when off-duty, i still don't know that i would intervene to resuscitate a woman i don't know. These days you don't even have to be investigated to lose your job. A mere accusation is enough.

    It sucks for the women who suffer cardiac arrest or blocked airways, but it's a by-product of several generations of feminism demonizing men. On balance it's probably a small price to pay for the power to destroy on a whim the careers and lives of men who are in their way.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:04PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:04PM (#596983)

      If i was a paramedic or EMT who is indemnified by a hospital even when off-duty, i still don't know that i would intervene to resuscitate a woman i don't know.

      Actually, if I recall, this is illegal. You are required to perform CPR if you are currently registered

      I went to look this up, and it seems I was wrong, only one state will fine you for not performing CPR and then it is only $100.

    • (Score: 4, Touché) by krishnoid on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:15PM

      by krishnoid (1156) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:15PM (#596986)

      Maybe we should have tattoos on our sternums, "Do Resuscitate" or "Do Not Resuscitate" or "You must be at least this cute -> to resuscitate me."

    • (Score: 3, Interesting) by frojack on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:41PM

      by frojack (1554) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:41PM (#597000) Journal

      In many, maybe most states there are Good Samaritan laws that protect Joe public, but Joe ceases to be part of the random public once trained. Joe should have known better!!

      You are better off reading about it than taking any formal training.

      An EMT certificate would make you a professional.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 5, Informative) by JoeMerchant on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:45PM (4 children)

      by JoeMerchant (3937) on Tuesday November 14 2017, @09:45PM (#597002)

      Physician friend of ours saved a fellow restaurant patron (stranger) once by performing an emergency tracheotomy with a disassembled ballpoint pen - others' correct attempts at Heimlich had failed and the person was already unconscious from lack of air at the time.

      Of course he was sued for it. Vowed that he will just stand back and watch them die next time.

      --
      🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @02:37AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @02:37AM (#597110)
      • (Score: 2) by linkdude64 on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:17PM (1 child)

        by linkdude64 (5482) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:17PM (#597331)

        That is truly insane. Did the judge throw the case out? How much were they seeking in damages?

        • (Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:32PM

          by JoeMerchant (3937) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:32PM (#597420)

          It went further in the process than it should have, being a licensed MD he had malpractice insurance, and being professional corporate lawyers handling the malpractice case they engaged based on minimum cost to the insurance company rather than principles - I believe they postured back and forth for over a year and the insurance company finally settled for some amount that paid the plaintiffs lawyers for their efforts, but not much more. Of course, throughout this process the MD has to give multiple depositions and make appearances and listen to all of the utter twaddle that is our adversarial representation system.

          --
          🌻🌻 [google.com]
      • (Score: 2) by driverless on Wednesday November 15 2017, @11:56PM

        by driverless (4770) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @11:56PM (#597509)

        Physician friend of ours saved a fellow restaurant patron (stranger) once by performing an emergency tracheotomy with a disassembled ballpoint pen - others' correct attempts at Heimlich had failed and the person was already unconscious from lack of air at the time.

        Of course he was sued for it. Vowed that he will just stand back and watch them die next time.

        This is fucked up, but probably for a different reason than you think. After the emergency tracheotomy, the person would have needed hospital treatment and further surgery to fix things up. In order to get their HMO to cover it, they would have had to sue the guy who performed the tracheotomy, not to damage the guy but to get the HMO to pay out. This is also why e.g. children hurt in the home may have to sue their parents to get it covered by the HMO.

        So the problem is probably because of the fucked-up medical "care" system in the US, not because the person whose life was saved was an asshole.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:24AM (5 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 15 2017, @12:24AM (#597070) Journal

      I'm trained but I wouldn't perform CPR on a woman unless i knew her well. People are too litigious. You're as likely to be sued for bruising from the procedure "my god he was so rough! I'm traumatized for liiiife!" As you are for touching her chest.

      I would. Proper CPR will do more than bruise someone. It can break ribs and has a high likelihood of dislocating someone's sternum. But it can save a life. I would suggest here educating yourself on how you can protect yourself from litigation so you can continue to save lives. Having witnesses and following proper procedure are key. But in the end, ask yourself why you're comfortable with letting someone die because of some nebulous risk of litigation. That kind of fear goes well beyond first aid. For example, it is not very different from fear that keeps us from resisting tyranny.

      • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday November 15 2017, @01:42AM (3 children)

        by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @01:42AM (#597089) Journal

        I would suggest here educating yourself on how you can protect yourself from litigation so you can continue to save lives.

        Should I carry around a release and get it signed by the victim's party and some witnesses before beginning?

        Now, if I saw someone dying in any other part of the world I would not hesitate to act. But not in America. America has slipped past the event horizon of madness.

        --
        Washington DC delenda est.
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday November 15 2017, @02:27AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday November 15 2017, @02:27AM (#597104) Journal
          In a different discussion, you admit [soylentnews.org] to being on a school board in the US. That's more litigation risk than you'll face doing CPR for a dying woman.
        • (Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:39PM (1 child)

          by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Wednesday November 15 2017, @04:39PM (#597346) Journal

          No, you should be aware of the difference between informed consent and implied consent, something which is taught in a modern CPR class.

          If a patient is able to respond to you and affirmatively declares you can do it, you have express consent. Informed consent is similar, but it implicates that you shared risks and advantages of what you were going to do. If the patient refuses you do NOTHING, even if it means the person's death.

          If a patient needs CPR, they are unconscious. Without a signed legal Do Not Resuscitate order in public or POLST orders in a hospital, an unconscious person automatically gives implied consent. That is, you can assume the patient wants whatever life saving treatments you are trained and qualified to offer.

          For a licensed professional, we are aware that without a legally signed DNR order it doesn't matter what anyone else says - once you initiate treatment you must carry through to completion or being relieved by a higher authority of the responsibility (which includes calling a hospital and getting a scene pronouncement if necessary or transport). ("He never wanted CPR" from a spouse isn't good enough.) This includes someone who refused right up until loss of consciousness - which can happen with heart attack deniers.

          And I'd be a LOT more circumspect going anyplace in the world. I'd rather be sued than jailed (or worse!) for unlawfully touching a woman - which can happen in MANY countries. Most countries do NOT have Good Samaritan laws. You might get sued, but you have an implied defense so long as you were behaving reasonably.

          --
          This sig for rent.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:28AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 15 2017, @07:28AM (#597195)

        medical students/doctors in training are sometimes asked to do CPR on old people in emergency rooms (after the doctors have already been doing it for 20 mins or something, and they lose hope).
        a medical student told me that they are afraid to do this, because they do break ribs (especially easy with old people), and if the family asks for an autopsy a scandal may ensue.