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Questionable herpes vaccine research backed by tech heavyweight Peter Thiel may have jeopardized $15 million in federal research funding to Southern Illinois University School of Medicine. That's according to documents obtained by a Freedom of Information Act request by The State Journal Register.
In August, Kaiser Health News reported that Thiel and other conservative investors had contributed $7 million for the live-but-weakened herpes virus vaccine, developed by the late SIU researcher William Halford. The investments came after Halford and his private company, Rational Vaccines, had begun conducting small clinical trials in the Caribbean nation of St. Kitts and Nevis. With the off-shore location, Rational Vaccines' trial skirted federal regulations and standard safety protocols for human trials, including having approval and oversight from an institutional review board (IRB).
Experts were quick to call the unapproved trial "patently unethical," and researchers rejected the data from publication, calling the handling of safety issues "reckless." The government of St. Kitts opened an investigation into the trial and reported that health authorities there had been kept in the dark.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Ethanol-fueled on Thursday November 16 2017, @06:10PM (24 children)
Those who are crying need to shut the fuck up. If anybody needs a herpes vaccine, it's the Caribbean.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Thursday November 16 2017, @06:23PM (10 children)
That's all well and good. But, ethics remain an important issue. If you don't have the time, or the compassion, to ensure that your test subjects don't drop dead from your tests, then you don't need to be testing medical stuff at all. Can't bear the thought of any kind of ethical oversight? You need to keep local health officials in the dark? There's something bad wrong with your methodology. If your methodology sucks, there is every reason to suspect that your results are bad too.
How many drugs have we seen come to market in the past decade or two, only to learn much later that the side effects are worse than the problems for which they were prescribed?
Ahhh, to hell with recent decades - how 'bout some nice, relaxing thalidomide? Have a truckload, so you can share it with all of your child bearing age female friends and relatives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g [youtube.com]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 16 2017, @07:05PM (3 children)
see, this is why i don't mind runaway.
he's principled even if he does lean quite rightward.
conservatives do not have to be 100% profit and revenue maximizng at the expense of the actual customers they depend on.
the very fact that the topic had '"unethical" in quotes led me to believe we'd be biased right from the start--which we were with the academic witchhunt comment--but runaway helped set the proper tone.
ethics matter to everyone. you dont have to be red or blue to do unto others as you'd want done to you.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Thursday November 16 2017, @08:06PM (2 children)
I totally agree. I even had to mod Runaway up. It hurt, but I did it anyway, because he's right. For once.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 16 2017, @09:24PM (1 child)
got your mod points back, eh?
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Friday November 17 2017, @12:33AM
Twice as many, it seems.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by wisnoskij on Thursday November 16 2017, @10:47PM (2 children)
The story seems to be saying that a company is developing a drug in the Caribbean , that would greatly help the Caribbean, while following all Caribbean guidelines and requirements.
I don't see what concern it is to us what laws and regulations the Caribbean decides are necessary to restrict life saving medical research.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 16 2017, @11:07PM
It involves Peter Thiel! Hate!
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 17 2017, @02:25AM
You might want to follow the links within the summary? Seems to be saying:
"An “active investigation” has begun in St Kitts and Nevis over allegations that a US-backed vaccine test took place in the federation to evade American safety oversight.
In a statement this evening, the country’s chief medical officer said in a statement via the Ministry of Health and Social Services, that a number of organisations have been kept in the dark over clinical trials.
“The Ministry of Health states categorically that neither the cabinet, the Ministry of Health, the office of chief medical officer nor the St Kitts and Nevis Medical Board has ever been approached on this project,” the statement read.
http://wicnews.com/caribbean/investigation-underway-clinical-trials-st-kitts-nevis-51245133/ [wicnews.com]
So, obviously, guidelines and requirements of St. Kitts and Nevis were evaded, right along with all pertinent US guidelines and requirements.
(Score: 2) by TheRaven on Friday November 17 2017, @10:17AM (2 children)
Thalidomide is an interesting example, because it's also a case of unintended consequences for reactionary regulation. In the wake of the Thalidomide trials, the restrictions on women participating in clinical trials were tightened up a lot to the point that some drugs made it to market without any testing on women at all. This came to light recently in the context of sleeping pills, some of which are significantly more effective on women to the point where the recommended dose can leave women dangerously sleepy in the mornings when they try to drive to work.
Oh, and Thalidomide is still used and is quite effective, doctors just have to be very careful about who they prescribe it to.
sudo mod me up
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday November 17 2017, @02:45PM (1 child)
Those unintended consequences you mention are more a result of over reaction, than a proper reaction. IMHO, women should be included in any and all research and tests. But, women should be properly INFORMED. To lazy to go in search of thes story again, but some dude in Toronto was earning money in collge through some of these clinical tests. They gave him some stuff that caused some pretty serious side effects. The thing is, he wasn't properly informed. He didn't know to watch for the symptoms he developed. At his next scheduled appointment, he told the researchers about his symptoms, and basically, he was kicked out of the clinical test program. Blackballed. He couldn't get any more work for that group, or any similar group.
People, male or female, should have the opportunity to participate in research. But, both male and female should be fully informed. If Jenny Freshman understands that a clinical trial has a chance in thousand/million/billion of causing birth defects, then she can decide whether she wants to take that risk. A bunch of politicians shouldn't be making that decision for her. So long as Jenny is fully informed, it's her decision.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Saturday November 18 2017, @01:05AM
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 16 2017, @06:28PM (1 child)
And nobody needs Peter Thiel either.
(Score: 3, Touché) by HiThere on Thursday November 16 2017, @07:05PM
Sorry, but a good herpes vaccine would be very important. You'll probably need to take it as a young child to get full benefit. And that means careful research ahead of time is mandatory.
I agree with you about Mr. Thiel, though.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 16 2017, @06:30PM
Found the next volunteer :D I think this manly man would also like to test every other experimental treatment available as well, perhaps his body will develop anitbodies for super-aids. Just put it waaaay up in his butt.
(Score: 2) by NewNic on Thursday November 16 2017, @07:35PM
In the same way there was a need for a drug to prevent morning sickness in pregnant women?
There are good reasons for the rules on drug and vaccine trials.
lib·er·tar·i·an·ism ˌlibərˈterēənizəm/ noun: Magical thinking that useful idiots mistake for serious political theory
(Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Thursday November 16 2017, @07:46PM (8 children)
Than how about you take it fucker? Why does that massive piece of shit Thiel get to live like an emperor with the best medical? Oh, yeah, that's right... it's because he has no respect for ethics, no respect for the law, no respect for the lives of other people, and just sees people like human lab rats to do as he pleases.
You want us to shut up? Then how bout both you and Thiel shut the fuck up about our protestations, take the damn medicine yourselves? Why should Thiel be excluded from the test groups?
If you want to benefit from Nazi fucking medicine, then you better be prepared to fully contribute to their medical "programs".
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 5, Touché) by takyon on Thursday November 16 2017, @07:59PM (6 children)
Did the Nazis pay the people they experimented on? Did they give any of them treatments with the expectation that they would be cured?
What's your price? Much higher than the Kitts islanders'? But you're more than willing to make their decisions for them.
Geez, you're more manipulative than Thiel!
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday November 16 2017, @09:01PM (4 children)
Thiel has also been interested in sea-steading. Last I read, he had given up the idea due to economic infeasibility. I've always felt like a no-holds-barred medical testing ground might be one of the easiest ways to recoup costs on such a project. Bonus anarchy-points if you're willing to do organ (head?) transplants that other nations ban.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday November 16 2017, @09:13PM (1 child)
The head transplant is still up in the air: https://themerkle.com/russian-billionaire-will-not-partake-in-human-head-transplant-after-all/ [themerkle.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by lx on Thursday November 16 2017, @10:46PM
Thanks for that mental image.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Thursday November 16 2017, @09:14PM (1 child)
Older articles:
http://www.newsweek.com/head-transplant-sergio-canavero-valery-spiridonov-china-2017-591772 [newsweek.com]
http://www.newsweek.com/rat-head-transplant-sergio-canavero-xiaoping-ren-590925 [newsweek.com]
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 2) by JNCF on Thursday November 16 2017, @09:27PM
Hence the question mark. It might become reality sooner with some sketchy testing on impoverished people, though!
(Score: 5, Informative) by edIII on Thursday November 16 2017, @10:15PM
Paying doesn't mean much. There are desperate people in the world willing to subject themselves to horrible things. Just because you find somebody willing, doesn't mean that it was intrinsically ethical. No there probably was no expectation of a cure, but most medical subjects have to put up with scary side effects and the unknown nonetheless.
I'm not making their decision for them, but saying that Peter Thiel shouldn't be able to exploit their desperation for money. I'm saying that if somebody wanted to participate, even to be paid for it, that there needs to be oversight by impartial people. Like say, a medical review board. I'm not making their medical decisions for them, but it certainly seems like Peter Thiel and his investors are. They are the players in the game with the most power and information, and they're using that to manipulate people with less power, less information, and less sophistication. The medical review boards and U.S bureaucracy are at the very least designed to support the patient. So that patients are not left with the situation of trusting their doctor on their word.
There is a reason why doctors post their degrees in their offices.
Not sure how that is manipulation when I express facts. Fact: Peter Thiel is benefiting from unethical medicine trials in a fairly unregulated country while lying to both the participants, the governments of both countries, and the entire medical community. So just like the Nazis, it was always about gaining power and information at the expense of people they don't consider equals, or human. Yes, I claim that it is Nazi medicine, in that it has no intentions of working with the medical communities worldwide, or being subject to their review, judgement, etc. Sorry, but that certainly fits the Nazi description to me.
If it is medicine that he needs, then he can be part of the trials. You seem to be held up because the islanders agreed, but I think that ignores the ignorance and duress that they suffer from. Informed consent is something easy to achieve when the person consenting doesn't really understand, and very dangerous when the person consenting is trusting somebody (like a researcher or doctor) to be concerned about their well being, when patient well being is clearly not a major factor.
People convert to Christianity on a regular basis when the priest arrives with bibles *and* food or medicine. Saying that it was their choice just seems simplistic and deliberate ignorance.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 1, Troll) by crafoo on Friday November 17 2017, @01:30AM
We all benefited greatly from Nazi medicine. You directly benefited from Nazi medical science. It was a treasure trove of information and advanced medical science by decades, maybe more. Thiel's team seemed to adhere to the local laws. I don't see anything necessarily wrong with this. Not everyone must comply to your moral code. You can express your dismay and anger. It doesn't make you right or "more correctly moral".