SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Speed cameras have been the focus of motorists' anger and frustration for years, although we are told repeatedly that they are an effective means of reducing death and injury on the roads. But is this really the case?
Whether speed cameras actually do save lives seems an easy assertion to test: measure the numbers of casualties at a site over a period, say two years; introduce a speed camera; re-measure the number of casualties over an equal period, and any reduction is due to the camera. But it's not really that simple. Many other factors are at play that might make cameras appear to be more effective than they really are. And these factors are often ignored when evaluating the performance of speed cameras at improving road safety.
Do speed cameras actually save lives?
[...] In road safety data, there is a general tendency for collision incidents at a site to reduce anyway following a short-term rise in their number, without any treatment (such as a speed camera) being applied. In statistics, this is known as regression-to-the-mean (or RTM). We also know that the long-term trend in collisions has generally been downward due to factors such as improved vehicle safety and better driver education[PDF].
So if we observe a reduction in casualties at a site following the installation of a camera, we need to ask how much of this reduction would have happened anyway (the RTM effect)? How much is due to general trends in road safety? And how much can we actually attribute to the camera itself?
[...] To make matters worse, half of the UK's fixed speed cameras may not even be turned on. So the situation is far from simple.
Methods to accurately account for RTM and trend often require knowledge of advanced statistics which may not always be available within a road safety team, and so it is likely that these confounding factors are not being considered consistently across the country.
[...] So, do speed cameras save lives? The answer is almost certainly yes, but probably not always to the extent that people are led to believe.
https://theconversation.com/do-speed-cameras-really-save-lives-87701
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @07:40PM (15 children)
As usual, our government (in the US, at least) sees fit to provide corporate welfare to the companies that make cameras like these. And what do we get in return? Well, since they're all proprietary, we have no idea exactly how they work. They're typically controlled by shady corporations that want to extort as much money from us as possible. Automated 'justice' is a terrible idea in absolutely all cases, as there should always be a human to verify that a crime actually took place, and a way to fight back against false charges.
I don't care how many lives they supposedly save, though I doubt they do. They are inherently unjust. No one should want to live in a mass surveillance society.
(Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @07:44PM (3 children)
Install cameras in your car, and GPS devices in your car, and use them.
Then you'll have evidence of your own, and you might thereby expose wrongdoing as well.
As always, the best check against abuse of power is competition.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @07:56PM
No, the best check against abuses of power is to take away an abusive government's toys. Just don't let them conduct mass surveillance on the populace. A number of cities in the US have successfully gotten rid of things like red-light cameras and speed cameras, so it's doable.
I'd rather be less safe than have these things, which generously assumes they do increase safety.
(Score: 2) by Kell on Wednesday November 22 2017, @07:22AM (1 child)
How is this a troll? This is a reasonable position to take.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday November 23 2017, @01:29AM
Not the modder, but I find amusing the idea of competition as a guard against abuse of power.
I can guarantee you two parasites will happily share the same victim especially if they derive benefits in different ways. You only need to look on how your govt, your bank and your comms provider compete to suck you dry of your money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Tuesday November 21 2017, @07:59PM
Here in San Diego speed camera tickets were a total of around $400 bucks.
Only $150 or so of that actually went to the city. You can guess with much accuracy where the remainder went.
Fortunately, sanity prevailed and the ones in San Diego were dismantled.
(Score: 5, Informative) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday November 21 2017, @09:41PM (9 children)
A friend worked for one of those speed trap camera companies for short time in Maryland. He would drive a van with the equipment to a selected site and setup a tripod with a camera and sensor with a cable that ran to a rack in the van. One of their main targets were highway off ramps to purposefully catch people coming off the exits and merging onto the service road at near highway speeds as the exit had a 30MPH posting. I was on the phone with him one night and the software played the Windows XP ding error sound every time it nailed someone. During that conversation all you heard was ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ..... on and on. Well over 100 people nabbed in just the 30 minutes were were on the phone. He said he had many nights where his van issued over 500 tickets. The tickets were $150 and the company would do this EVERY day at random locations using four speed trap vans. We estimated they could easily make upwards of two million *per week* between all four vans. Not sure what the split was with the county though. That is a shit load of money and I guarantee you did nothing to increase road safety and only lined the pockets of the contractor. It's just a money grab.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Tuesday November 21 2017, @10:11PM (2 children)
I forgot to mention they purposefully set up the traps during rush hour. So you know it's a money grab.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 21 2017, @11:23PM (1 child)
Or, they set it up at times they knew people would be driving recklessly so as to maximize impact.
If that many tickets are being issued, that implies that there's a serious need for enforcement action. Freeway offramps are for slowing down to an appropriate speed and usually they're designed for a speed between that of the freeway and that of the surrounding streets.
How many people need to get killed because freedom?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @07:13PM
Driving over some arbitrary speed limit is not necessary reckless. Anyone who is in favor of automated 'justice' is in favor of injustice.
I'd rather many people die than live in a mass surveillance society.
(Score: 2) by physicsmajor on Wednesday November 22 2017, @03:57PM (1 child)
If true, the limit is incorrect. It should be set at the 80-85th percentile from traditional wisdom, but in a situation with potential near-100% enforcement it should be higher, likely above the 95th percentile. What you're describing cannot be anywhere close. Furthermore most limits on large roads are intended for semis and the most top heavy SUVs; normal vehicles can safely exceed them by 10-15 mph. This does not mean you should ticket a sedan going 70 around a curve marked 60 coming down into Phoenix, for example.
Another way to think about this is that the goal is to have safe and efficient traffic flow. Unless a huge percentage of those ticketed are having accidents, the limit is too low.
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday November 22 2017, @05:43PM
It doesn't matter if it's technically incorrect. The only thing that matters is whether a speed trap will make the county more money when placed next to the ramp. This isnt about traffic safety, traffic engineering or any other positive improvement. This is about extorting money from the people for the county.
(Score: 2) by urza9814 on Wednesday November 22 2017, @05:07PM (1 child)
Interesting...in Pennsylvania at least (the only state whose vehicle code I've read fairly thoroughly...) every single one of those tickets would likely be unlawful -- they aren't allowed to issue a citation through automated means within 500 feet after a decrease in the speed limit.
- http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/75/75.HTM [state.pa.us]
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday November 22 2017, @05:45PM
If memory serves correctly, they had him move around the i70 where some of the ramps are as long as 1500 ft (quick and dirty results from google maps measure tool). Ramp off speed is posted at 30 at the beginning exit ramp giving motorists plenty of time to slow down. But 30 MPH isn't very fast and the limit was 12 MPH over before the computer would ticket you, meaning >42MPH = summons. It's very reasonable to assume that motorists could easily be travelling in the 40-50 MPH range well after 1000ft which isn't that fast.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 22 2017, @07:41PM (1 child)
Great friend you have there, to work for such a company. Let me guess, another one of your friends is a TSA thug?
(Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Wednesday November 22 2017, @09:31PM
Nice. Blame the guy who's working for a living. FYI, he quit after a few months and went back to school.