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posted by Fnord666 on Monday December 04 2017, @04:16AM   Printer-friendly
from the but-is-it-round dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

Light Table is a free, customizable, functional, and open-source IDE with a modern User Interface, plugin support, command pane, and connection manager

I'll stick with (g)vim personally but there's probably a few of you who'll find this interesting enough, if only to rag on it in the comments.

Source: https://www.fossmint.com/light-table-next-generation-open-source-ide-editor/


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  • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Monday December 04 2017, @03:49PM (5 children)

    by meustrus (4961) on Monday December 04 2017, @03:49PM (#605093)
    "Slow" is not because it's "modern", it's because it's an "IDE". If you want it fast, you want something that bills itself as a "code editor". Something deliberately intended to be one of many tools, rather than the one and only.
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  • (Score: 2) by crafoo on Monday December 04 2017, @06:48PM (4 children)

    by crafoo (6639) on Monday December 04 2017, @06:48PM (#605194)

    QtCreator is pretty fast though. Much faster than Visual Studio at syntax evaluation. The integration with gdb is pretty good too.

    All I had to know was that this new IDE appears to target Electron. Unmitigated trash.

    • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday December 04 2017, @08:20PM (3 children)

      by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday December 04 2017, @08:20PM (#605253) Journal

      QtCreator is pretty fast though. Much faster than Visual Studio at syntax evaluation.

      Most likely because there isn't a stack of language VM's, web browsers, and a million other libs to drag in while the CPU burns through the entire mess.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:44PM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 04 2017, @08:44PM (#605278)

        Very true. Modern IDEs deploy dozens of threads in the background to all the parsing/coordination work, and I thought managing that on JVM was a feet, but stick that on top of dynamic scripting language platform, it negates all the multi-core hardware performance advances of the last decade.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by LoRdTAW on Monday December 04 2017, @11:02PM (1 child)

          by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday December 04 2017, @11:02PM (#605379) Journal

          Plenty of dynamic languages use multiple cores, even Clojure. The problem is the massive software stack in between the user and the actual application is a bloated mess. In the case of QtCreator, it's all c++ so the heavy lifting is done closer to the metal in native machine code using native libraries for graphics and everything else. That's about as fast as you can get.

          These newer IDE's are self contained cross-platform client-server web applications. They want cross-platform portability so that rules out compiled languages leaving us with VM languages. Those languages are slow by themselves unless they use native libraries via foreign function interfaces or other native interfaces to do the heavy lifting. But once again you have the portability problem so you have to stay within the VM. Okay, figured out how to run the code, now how do we display it on various operating systems or CPU arch's WITHOUT compiling anything? Answer: use a web browser. This necessitates integrating a web server into the back end code so the browser can talk to it. Most likely that happens via a web framework because someone has done it already so we drag in a shit load of dependencies. But wait! Clojure doesn't run in a browser so we have to write the web front end in HTMl, CSS and JS.

          In the end you have not one, but two VM's running two different halves of your code written in multiple languages. It's sloppy, lazy, wasteful, patently absurd and needs to stop.

          • (Score: 2) by meustrus on Tuesday December 05 2017, @03:05PM

            by meustrus (4961) on Tuesday December 05 2017, @03:05PM (#605650)

            I'd say that "sloppy, lazy, wasteful" depends on the implementation. Yes, if you pull in all the frameworks and cobble them together like most client-server code these days, you will end up with a bloated mess. But it's possible to do things better than that. The problem is that it relies on the skill of the developer.

            It's possible, though, to create an application exactly as you describe and make it fast. Modeling your desktop app like an HTTP API-driven web app has the advantage of requiring everything to be asynchronous and (at the transmission level) stateless. These two limitations will make any application enormously more stable, and if you know how to work within them, parallelizable as well. You just need the discipline to leave the heavy frameworks on the shelf.

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