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posted by janrinok on Monday December 11 2017, @08:23PM   Printer-friendly
from the we-saw-it-coming dept.

Chamath Palihapitiya, a former vice president for user growth at Facebook, feels (some) guilt about his role in expanding the social media giant:

Palihapitiya's criticisms were aimed not only at Facebook, but the wider online ecosystem. "The short-term, dopamine-driven feedback loops we've created are destroying how society works," he said, referring to online interactions driven by "hearts, likes, thumbs-up." "No civil discourse, no cooperation; misinformation, mistruth. And it's not an American problem — this is not about Russians ads. This is a global problem."

He went on to describe an incident in India where hoax messages about kidnappings shared on WhatsApp led to the lynching of seven innocent people. "That's what we're dealing with," said Palihapitiya. "And imagine taking that to the extreme, where bad actors can now manipulate large swathes of people to do anything you want. It's just a really, really bad state of affairs." He says he tries to use Facebook as little as possible, and that his children "aren't allowed to use that shit." He later adds, though, that he believes the company "overwhelmingly does good in the world."

[...] In his talk, Palihapitiya criticized not only Facebook, but Silicon Valley's entire system of venture capital funding. He said that investors pump money into "shitty, useless, idiotic companies," rather than addressing real problems like climate change and disease. Palihapitiya currently runs his own VC firm, Social Capital, which focuses on funding companies in sectors like healthcare and education.

From a partial transcript:

You don't realize it, but you are being programmed. It was unintentional, but now you gotta decide how much you're willing to give up. How much of your intellectual independence, and don't think, yeah, not me, I'm a genius, I'm at Stanford. You're probably the most likely to fall for it. Because you are check-boxing your whole damn life. No offense, guys.

Previously: Facebook Founding President Sounds Alarm, Criticizes Facebook


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Monday December 11 2017, @08:46PM (18 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Monday December 11 2017, @08:46PM (#608424) Journal

    He is quite right about how gullible smart people can be. They think they're too intelligent to be taken in by manipulation. The manipulation is conducted on a deep emotional, almost limbic, level, though, and so is not communicated in a way that they're equipped to respond to. Facebook and social media are cult-like, and the need for approval from the crowd they foster is the exact same mechanism that real cults employ to rope people in.

    In fact intellectuals are more susceptible to manipulation than the average bear because emotional and social insecurity are practically a by-product of the focus and effort it takes to hone their intellect.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 11 2017, @09:33PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday December 11 2017, @09:33PM (#608450)

    James Randi always said something similar about educated people, but a bit more direct and without all the dime store psychobabble.

  • (Score: 2) by krishnoid on Monday December 11 2017, @10:18PM

    by krishnoid (1156) on Monday December 11 2017, @10:18PM (#608475)

    In fact intellectuals are more susceptible to manipulation than the average bear because emotional and social insecurity are practically a by-product of the focus and effort it takes to hone their intellect.

    There's also no formal curriculum for emotional and social education -- those who know those things, have innate skills in those areas or learn them as a survival instinct. If there was a formal curriculum for how/what to recognize and behave in these areas, I bet intellectuals could pick it up well enough to act accordingly.

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Gaaark on Monday December 11 2017, @10:28PM (11 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Monday December 11 2017, @10:28PM (#608486) Journal

    I didn't see Facebook as cult-like: to me it was just stupid. "My chef baked too many cookies, so i'm sending you 100 cookies." "I just had a poo and now i'm going to my shitty job"

    Thanks, but no thanks, i got better things to do with my time!

    Went on fb to be involved with my daughters life and left because of STUPIDITY.

    Is it a cult of the stupids?
    At least i hear the young kids are abandoning fb. Good for them.

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by arslan on Monday December 11 2017, @10:57PM (8 children)

      by arslan (3462) on Monday December 11 2017, @10:57PM (#608515)

      So you're immune, please pat yourself in your back for me. However the problem is real and still exists. Kids are abandoning fb for _other_ apps/products but with the same base concepts.

      I don't see how you can call addiction stupid. It is a different form - this method preys on the emotional side of people not necessarily their intellectual part.

      • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday December 11 2017, @11:26PM (6 children)

        by Gaaark (41) on Monday December 11 2017, @11:26PM (#608529) Journal

        Sigh.
        It's NOT addiction, it's stupidity.
        Just. Drop. It.

        Delete your account and go do something else! Simple.

        Im an alcoholic.
        I stopped cold turkey. (How you ask?)
        I don't buy booze. If you don't buy booze, you can't drink it. Simple.

        I don't go to bars. If you don't buy booze, you can't drink it. Simple.

        I now fill my time with other things. Sometimes it's hard, reeeal hard, but again if I don't drive to the liquor store, I can't have any to drink. Simple.

        So, delete your account. Now. Do it.

        So simple.

        Or are you not a strong enough person? If not, don't blame addiction. Blame yourself.

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by arslan on Tuesday December 12 2017, @06:11AM (1 child)

          by arslan (3462) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @06:11AM (#608660)

          You're just redefining the label from your perspective. Others view it as an addiction, so yea fine if you view it as stupidity. That's yer opinion.

          I used to a smoker too and yes I stopped because I just willed it. There was a struggle much like you put it. It was only stupid in so far as I knew the consequences but still smoked, but in terms of quitting its not like stupidity where I educated myself out of the habit. I had to fight it mentally like an addiction. Not buying fags or alcohol or deleting your social media account is just a simple act, the hard part is the mental and at times physiological (I don't know if the cold sweats and hunger pangs were real or just in my head) battle.

          • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday December 12 2017, @11:46AM

            by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @11:46AM (#608696) Journal

            Yeah, it can be hard: I just hate all the "it's a disease, I am helpless, I need GOD!!" bullshit.

            You just need to want it and do it. Don't hide and say you're helpless.

            Congrats on quitting smoking! :)

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Tuesday December 12 2017, @06:53AM

          by MichaelDavidCrawford (2339) Subscriber Badge <mdcrawford@gmail.com> on Tuesday December 12 2017, @06:53AM (#608665) Homepage Journal

          Most voters for example

          --
          Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
        • (Score: 1) by DiarrhoeaChaChaCha on Tuesday December 12 2017, @12:54PM (2 children)

          by DiarrhoeaChaChaCha (264) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @12:54PM (#608707)

          Well...you clearly have never truly been addicted to alcohol, if you could just quit drinking 'cold turkey'.

          Either that, or you're letting your own smugness get in the way of understanding that addictions, whatever form they take, are as bad as whatever debilitating effect they have on each addict.
          Still, that would be rather dissappointing, coming from a recovering addict.

          • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:10PM (1 child)

            by Gaaark (41) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:10PM (#608863) Journal

            And you know all this how?

            Tell me:
            If I don't buy liquor, can I drink liquor?

            If I am HONEST with myself, and I occupy myself when I start wanting a drink (which I wanted (again) today) instead of driving to the liquor store, HOW CAN I DRINK?

            Tell me how?
            How do you drink booze when you have no booze?
            How do you eat if you have no food?

            If you're NOT honest with yourself, you get in the car and you buy liquor. But that means you are fooling only yourself and you are not really ready to give it up.
            If you are, you just don't buy it, and you go outside and you shovel snow like a fiend.

            It all depends on DO YOU REALLY WANT TO QUIT!?!
            No babying yourself, no fooling yourself...no being weak.

            --
            --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
            • (Score: 1) by DiarrhoeaChaChaCha on Wednesday December 13 2017, @01:09PM

              by DiarrhoeaChaChaCha (264) on Wednesday December 13 2017, @01:09PM (#609199)

              I do not know. That was kind of my point. Just like you don't whether FB can be addictive or not. It isnt' for you. Good for you, but you're just you.
              At the same time you seem to equivocate Facebook not being addictive with your own alcoholism, leaving me to conclude that, for you, neither is an addiction.

              I doubt there are very many addicts who really want to be addicted. That's the nature of addiction. It's compulsive.
              I am glad you had (and still have) the mental strength to step away but stating 'they just do not want to quit badly enough', while technically true, is grossly oversimplifying the problem.

      • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:09PM

        by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:09PM (#608859) Journal

        So you're immune, please pat yourself in your back for me.

        The people who think they're immune are the least immune.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:26AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:26AM (#608667)

      I didn't see Facebook as cult-like: to me it was just stupid. "My chef baked too many cookies, so i'm sending you 100 cookies." "I just had a poo and now i'm going to my shitty job"

      I didn't see (Soylent|Slashdot|The Register) as cult-like: to me it was just technobabble. "My lusers did stupid things.." "systemd has become self-aware and it has a redneck level of consciousness..." "blah blah blah PHP root of all evils blah blah blah no, it's perl blah blah blah no, it's APL blah blah blah "

      (And don't get me started on reddit, or even stackexchange...)

      Anyhoo, re smart people, anecdote from the early days of the 419 scams back when I looked after MTAs as part of my job, I had an internationally famous (TV appearances etc, so not just in the field) theoretical physicist almost fall for one of them, he approached me at the last minute *after* making initial contact with the buggers, but *before* any financial shenanigans started (should add, for the record, the initial email was to his personal account on a college server, not the institute one, I ran somewhat draconian filtering back then...still do),

      smart? yes
      common sense? not one femtogram...

         

    • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:12PM

      by DeathMonkey (1380) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @07:12PM (#608865) Journal

      I didn't see Facebook as cult-like: to me it was just stupid.

      Gaaark would never do something as stupid as posting things on a website in the hope of earning internet points.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Monday December 11 2017, @11:44PM

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Monday December 11 2017, @11:44PM (#608540)

    Not disagreeing with any of it but an interesting alternative tack to

    intellectuals are more susceptible to manipulation than the average bear because

    the need for approval

    In like the 60s if a newly minted physics phd wasn't perfect in all ways, that's OK if there's 10 jobs for each grad, so they can be themselves, but now that the ratio is flipped and there's ten times as many grads for each job even in STEM and in the liberal arts its ten times worse, there's going to be pressure to be the signal-iest holier than thou-ist perfectly correct conformist little social media poster the world has ever seen, because, you know, there's only one job and 50 grads applying for it and the other 49 who don't get it will never pay off their loans as bartenders and baristas, no house no car no family their whole lives flashing before their lives now click "like" or move under the highway overpass with the rest of the liberal arts grads, etc.

    Its an evolution in action... give the bottom 90% the economic death penalty over and over and you'll eventually breed up some weirdness along with whatever you thought you were selecting for...

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by FatPhil on Tuesday December 12 2017, @12:32AM (2 children)

    by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday December 12 2017, @12:32AM (#608557) Homepage
    Almost totally agree. "Street smarts" are a real thing, and intellectuals aren't best known for them.

    But I think all kinds of smarts are orthogonal to the attraction that Facebook holds. For me, there was none, I have no account, and no desire for an account, and the reasons for that are simply that I already have perfectly functional methods of communicating with the people I give a fuck about communicating with. Facebook added nothing. Apparently it wasn't just about chatting - I can post images as well. Erm..., yes, I have had my own website, and I can post/host images on my own webserver. It gives me nothing apart from things I don't actually want or need. Call me cynical...

    And I think that's the distinguisher - the cynical. The cynical won't be caught off-guard and tricked, because they're probably too bloody cynical to even want to play the game in the first place. The modern generations seem to place their cynicism elsewhere, and are a bit wide-eyed when it comes to the technology that we tech-oriented oldies saw clumsily lollopping into existence, understanding the limitations and potentials thereof. To them it's just the birthing pool they've been born in, they don't see the pipes and pumps that make it work.
    --
    Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
    • (Score: 2, Funny) by ewk on Tuesday December 12 2017, @01:24PM (1 child)

      by ewk (5923) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @01:24PM (#608710)

      Tubes... How many times do we have to repeat it: The internet is made of tubes!

      --
      I don't always react, but when I do, I do it on SoylentNews
      • (Score: 2) by Freeman on Tuesday December 12 2017, @05:29PM

        by Freeman (732) on Tuesday December 12 2017, @05:29PM (#608810) Journal

        You know, every Fiber cable I've heard of has been laid in a PVC Pipe.

        --
        Joshua 1:9 "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee"