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As reported by The Huffington Post:
New rules implemented on Twitter Monday have led to the suspensions of accounts belonging to prominent neo-Nazis, white nationalists and other far-right extremists.
[...] "You may not make specific threats of violence or wish for the serious physical harm, death, or disease of an individual or group of people," states Twitter's rule for "violent extremist groups," which went into effect Monday.
"This includes, but is not limited to, threatening or promoting terrorism," the rule continues. "You also may not affiliate with organizations that – whether by their own statements or activity both on and off the platform – use or promote violence against civilians to further their causes."
[...] The "alt-right ― a loose association of neo-Nazis, white nationalists, assorted racists, fascists, and other far-right elements that has used Twitter for years to organize and recruit ― anticipated today's "purge," with many preparing to make the jump to Gab, a largely rules-free micro-blogging platform used primarily by white nationalists.
Related: Twitter: Our Blue Check Marks Aren't Just About "Verification"
(Score: -1, Troll) by jmorris on Wednesday December 20 2017, @02:47AM (31 children)
I'm on gab, I read Daily Stormer at least once a week. People have that notion because the Alt-Reich is a real thing. Yes it is retarded for all the reasons you enumerate and many of us try to beat this into certain people's hard noggins. Thankfully few are more than "ironic Nazis" and LARPers but it looks bad and gives the enemy too much free ammo. Of course the ironic nazis do have a point, in that it really doesn't matter. If you oppose the Progs, if you think that "It is OK to be White", any of that, the media is going to label you "neo-Nazis, white nationalists, assorted racists, fascists.." anyway to might as well wear the stylish jackboots to go with it. If they can call Mitt Romney a Nazi, and they did of course, we are ALL Nazis now.
Btw, any sane (ha!) folk on the left might wanna take note, throw around "Nazi", "Racist!" enough and people quit giving a damn. Nazi is the ultimate label, the "FUCK!" of political insults beyond which there is no more terrible name to hurl. But after you insisted that Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain, Romney and Trump are all vile racist Nazis, you kinda burned through everyone's supply of fucks to give. So now you sorta got real Nazis, only they are confused Nazis who think they are on the Right.
SJWs Always Lie. But the serve the Father of Lies so they like to make em complex. The parties DID switch you see, just not the way they say they did. As you note, the KKK (when it was something to be feared) was the Terror Wing of the Democratic Party, the Democrats were the pro slavery force and held sway in the South, etc. The lie is that the Republicans suddenly took the racist portfolio from the Democrats. Nothing of the sort of course occurred. LBJ simply switched tactics, fillibustering Civil Rights legislation was a diminishing source of political power, the fight was pretty much over and the Republicans were winning. So he switched sides with a twist, the Welfare State and Great Society bundled in. This kept blacks more oppressed than ever but now solidified their allegience to his Democratic Party, in words attributed to him by a noted biographer, "I'll have those niggers voting Democrat for the next two hundred years!" What DID switch was Progressivism. Originally the Republicans were Progressive (duh, Lincoln, etc) and the Democrats were Conservative. (If you doubt this, read Kirk's _The Conservative Mind_) THAT is what flipped, Democrats were so much better at demagoguery and populism that they took it up with Wilson and FDR and suddenly the Republicans found themselves out-competed and on the verge of extinction. So they adopted Conservative positions in opposition, having no other plan to survive. Now the flip is about complete, the last conservative Democrats have been hunted down and purged and only a few Progressive Republicans still exist in the NorthEast (Senator Susan Collins for example).
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @04:06AM (10 children)
Could it be, . . . SATAN! OMG, jmorris has gone all theological and Church-lady on us, bless his heart! What's that old saying from the '30's? If Fascism ever comes to America, it will be wrapped in the Flag and toting a Bible. And here is jmorris. Coincidence? I think not!
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @04:34AM (9 children)
“It is a peculiarity of the development of American fascism that at the present stage it comes forward principally in the guise of an opposition to fascism, which it accuses of being an “un-American” trend imported from abroad.” – Georgi Dimitrov, in his report delivered at the Seventh World Congress of the Communist International in 1935.
It fits. Antifa is fascist.
(Score: 4, Touché) by aristarchus on Wednesday December 20 2017, @07:13AM (8 children)
Now let me get this straight. Is is very important, because I want to make sure it is not just the abbreviations and acronyms that are confusing you. You are telling me that the Antifa, the "Anti-fascists" are fascist? Wow. Let's think about that for a moment. Such reversals are not unheard of. One of my favorites is at the end of "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas, in a Mexican standoff with Robert Duvall, and it comes to him, "You mean, I'm the bad guy?" But there are others. Arjuna's chariot driver, Khrisna, reveals himself as Shiva, and in the famous words repeated by Robert Oppenheimer at Alamogordo, says: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." [wikipedia.org] And even Pogo, famously, did the twist on Tippecanoe, who said, "We have met the enemy, and they are ours", into [Walt Kelly’s phrase] [wordpress.com] “We have met the enemy and he is us” . More poignant, perhaps, was the assertion by the American Major at the shelling of Ben Tre (or was it Hue?) who said: "We had to destroy the village in order to save it. [thisdayinquotes.com]
But that is not the end of such reversals. The best are those that Sartre related in "Bloody Hands". Those who become the enemies they fight, as Nietzsche said [goodreads.com] (“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” ) should remain aware that they are the monsters they fight. But I think this does not apply here.
The Antifa has a long history, for those who care to look it up. And they do not aspire to a Bierhall Putsch [wikipedia.org], they merely desire to oppose the fascist who are attempting to use violence to intimidate the namby-bamby middle of the road, Runaway types. So there is no moral equivalence here. Fascists are doing what fascists always do, attempting to grasp the reins of power (coup d'etat, for you Frenchies). and run through tax bills that benefit their patrons, policies that benefit their families, or at least their ethnic group. And you notice, your complete quote (not quite the OP was thinking of: Sinclair Lewis said "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. [snopes.com]), was pronounced at the Communist International. This gives you no pause?
Ultimately, and the obvious rebuttal for any still playing the khallow drinking-game, is that your assertion that the Antifa is fascist is right up there with the greal declarations in George Orwell's "1984"! 1984 having been somewhat past, you are late to the game, which I believe was called "doublespeak"? And it involved exactly the types of inversions of meaning that you are attempting here. The Party's Slogans: "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength." The sad thing is, this maps almost exactly onto the alt-right. Peace through Tweeting? Tax cuts will invigorate the economy? And , I forget, or in the case of Jeff Sessessions, "I can not recall".
So, yeah, if you are alt-right, or even alt-light, expect to have a rough time. Twitter will ban you. Your more socially aware friends with gradually isolate you. People who know stuff will look at you with pity and distain. Sooner, or later, you will end up being jmorris. Or, at best, a Runaway with family that loves you inspite of your stupid and co-opted political opinions that you are only allowed to express on SoylentNews. So here is my zinger: TMB is Antifa!!!! It's true! He is in favor of free speech, and that is anti-fascist! Welcome aboard, TMB! Here is your honorary SJW badge! Don't you just love false equivalencies and Orwellian language? Trump is double-un-plus-good.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @11:20AM (2 children)
Fascism in common usage refers to violent authoritarianism and Antifa meet that criteria. Antifa was founded in Germany as an offshoot of the communist party after two failed revolutions. Fascism was a doctrine started by Marxist, Benito Mussolini who decided international communism was never going to happen and supported order, nationalism and war as a pretext for the workers to rise up and usher in the international Marxist utopia. Fascism won out in Italy, Germany and Spain because people thought the fascists would protect them against the violence and terrorism of the communists.
This is all a matter of historical record and "the left" were never the good guys. The Western tradition is liberalism -- being forced to choose between two cheeks of the same Marxist asshole is a false dichotomy when you should reject all of it. "Liberals get the bullet too" -- Antifa 2016
(Score: 4, Informative) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @02:19PM (1 child)
Fascism and Marxism are not the same thing at all. They are diametrically opposed. Their intellectual roots in the Western tradition are different, with Marxism obviously coming from Karl Marx, who based his philosophy on dialectical materialism, and fascism springing from Friedrich Nietzsche, who is also considered the father of modernism. Those are quite, quite different, and the history of the early 20th century is in part the clash of those two political philosophies.
Saying that fascism is characterized by violent authoritarianism and therefore indistinguishable from Marxism proves you have no real grasp of what the Western tradition is or what political philosophy is. By your measure, feudal England had the exact same political system as early American democracy because the former oppressed serfs and the latter oppressed Indians and slaves. Does that make more plain how absurd your conflating fascism and Marxism is?
Also, BTW, both Marxism and fascism are part of the Western tradition, as is liberalism.
Really, if you have an interest in the Western tradition you should take time to learn what it is, for real. Find a syllabus online that starts with thinkers like Bentham and Kant, and which includes later additions like Durkheim, Weber, and Simmel. Read their books. Really read them, and try to understand what they were talking about. They were all deep thinkers and would be an intellectual balm in a Twitter age.
But please stop spreading the profound ignorance and misinformation you have. We ought to make each other sharper and smarter through discourse, not dumber.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @02:57PM
The academics behind both Mussolini and Hitler were former Marxists. What about the BUF in the UK, were former Labour MP Oswald Mosley and his ex-suffragette supporters formerly Marxists or right wing? Sigh! [wikipedia.org]
I reread my cliff notes version and it is historically accurate, I explicitly used the term "false dichotomy" to show how these two ideals are presented. If you don't think the 20th Century Fascists were former Marxists, or that liberals oppose both then it is you that needs to do some reading. [independent.co.uk]
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @11:46AM
While I'm here, I remind you that Orwell fought with the (socialist) International Brigade against Franco's forces in Spain. Then the Soviet backed communists moved in, branded IB fighters "fascists" and began executing them. Orwell was to to flee Spain and was lucky to escape the commies alive. I suggest everyone learn that lesson from his life, without having to learn it the hard way all by themselves.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @05:51PM (3 children)
So many clues, and you remain clueless. Is that not intentionally obtuse?
Maps onto progressivism. Antifa CALLS ITSELF anti-fascism, but that doesn't make it so.
And, oh yeah. Me too. Hillary groped me too. I had just come to Arkansas, and knew little about the local's ways. Bleach-Blonde Bitch just walked up to me, and grabbed me by the short hairs. After all these years, I can finally confess how humiliated I was. She told me that her husband was governor, and that she could do any damned thing she liked with my balls. You, Ari, can't possibly understand. It's been millenia since you've had a woody. You've forgotten what it's like to be a man. That is part of the reason that you are so double-plus-ungood.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @07:05PM (2 children)
what the fuck
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @09:12PM
He's either totally lost it or he's a russian troll having fun seeing just what level of ridiculous lying they can get away with.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday December 20 2017, @10:28PM
Holy fuck, he's lost it. Screenshot and/or copy-paste this post for posterity; this is The Moment Runaway Went Balls-Out Nuts (TM). We may seriously need this in case an intervention needs to be set up...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @05:50AM (5 children)
Nice to see you just come right out and admit the kind of shit you're into.
Ya know, I must agree that you are correct. I know I know, me agreeing with JLo?? Crazy. But still, over/incorrect use of racist and nazi has definitely diluted the terms and caused many conservatives to disregard the very real phenomenon.
Here's the thing though you crazy jackbooted freak, you and your pals have been 10x worse with your non-stop cries of "they're takin' mah guuuuns" and "death panels!" etc. etc. etc. You never take ownership for that shit so its hard for me to care about some liberals calling you names and hurting your feelz. Or about the bad techies kicking you off their private platforms, boo hoooooo. Talk about white people problems.
Oh yeah, the last few centuries called. They say you're a pussy for crying about being punched in the face, and they would like to remind you about the thousands of people murdered and raped by your predecessors. On the plus side you're pretty likely to get some physical contact with the prez, so you got that going for you which is ... eh... nice for you I guess?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @07:54AM (2 children)
"they're takin' mah guuuuns"
This is the stated goal of gun control organizations. It is a real threat; Hitler disarmed the Jews. It has happened in the USA; after hurricane Katrina the police went around to registered gun owners and illegally confiscated guns.
"death panels!"
These exist all around the world, obviously with names acceptable to marketing. A rose by any other name... a death panel is a death panel no matter what you call it. For example, Charlie Gard was ordered to die in the UK. He may have been doomed anyway, but treatment was denied and the parents were even blocked from bringing him to the USA for treatment. Socialized medicine often decides that something isn't cost-effective, perhaps because a person is merely old, and that's that. In the worst countries, a private alternative isn't allowed. The more typical situation is that the death panel never denies you, but the waiting list is long and other people deemed more valuable are put ahead of you.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @02:25PM (1 child)
But, I thought you venerated Hitler and hated Jews. Now you're using fear of Hitler and the genocide of European Jewry to argue against gun control. Shouldn't you be doing the opposite, supporting gun confiscation so that Jews and Marxists can't oppose the second coming of Hitler and the redemption of the White Race?
Quite honestly it's these facile mental inversions practiced by partisans on the political spectrum that give me a headache. It makes me suppose that schizophrenia is much more widespread in our modern society than has been acknowledged. How else could a person contain such shattering cognitive dissonance?
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @07:59PM
I'm alt-right probably, depending on definition.
Hitler was a damn socialist. He also fucked up by invading Poland. I think he could have found a non-fatal way to deal with the failure of Jews to fully integrate into German society. Other than ALL OF THAT SHIT he was pretty good.
Jews aren't inherently of horrible genetic stock. The ones in the USA tend to support liberal causes, leading to their future genocide at the hands of Muslims. That is pretty stupid of them, and I'm pissed that it affects me too. Jews in Israel are better; they have a place of their own. Oh, the fact that they sexually mutilate their own children is pretty offensive too, and forcing stuff like school lunches to be kosher is offensive. Overall though, I don't have much of an issue with Jews.
The point though, is that I don't want to end up like the Jews under Hitler did. Never mind the particulars of Jews and Hitler. The example is one of many. I think I could find a similar example on every continent. Somebody confiscates guns, and then the defenseless people get abused horribly. An ongoing example is Venezuela, where an unarmed population faces off against the military.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @08:58AM (1 child)
Please, please, tell me this is an auto-correct error, and that you mean j-mo?
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday December 20 2017, @10:30PM
I was the one who coined "J-Mo" as a nickname for him, as an obvious reference to Jennifer Lopez, specifically because he's such a drama-queen diva. Looks like it might have stuck a bit too hard...sorry about that :(
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday December 20 2017, @07:24AM (3 children)
Thanks for confirming what anyone with three sparking neurons already knew about you. You will meet your "father of lies" in person and sooner than you think.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @02:34PM (2 children)
If there's a silver lining to all this cloud it's that jmorris and his conferderates now feel comfortable enough to come out of hiding. It makes everything so much easier when everyone stops dissembling and speaks honestly about who they are and what they want. Instead of remaining a lurking menace that the rest of us can fret about and allow others to use as a tool to control us, we can speak to them directly and hear what they have to say, and respond. Nothing positive comes from the former, but progress can come from discourse with people whose beliefs are anathema to ours.
For example, upthread jmorris said people are over-using "nazi" to the point of meaninglessness, and that is true and correct. In acknowledging that is true and correct, we can all use language and choose our words more carefully and with more precision so that we do not dilute their power with bombast. Part of the soup we're in is a direct product of our collective failure to do that, such that Trump can lie without consequence, and the media can lie without consequence, too.
I would call that a positive contribution, and jmorris is responsible for bringing it to the table.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday December 20 2017, @10:12PM (1 child)
So what DO we call people who salute der Fuhrer, hang around Stormfront and Gab, etc? "Ironic Nazis" as he puts it? I mean, it if goose-steps like a duck, sieg heils like a duck, and hangs out with white supremacists like a duck...
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @11:22PM
Oh no, jmorris is an actual Nazi. He venerates Hitler and espouses his philosophy. It is correct to call him that, not just that he says mean things.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @02:03PM (9 children)
You make a good point. "Nazi" has been over-used to the point of meaninglessness. Because the term has been over-used, the concept has been diluted to meaninglessness also. That is dangerous. When you cry "wolf" enough times, people stop looking for the wolf and so will be taken completely unawares when the real wolf returns.
It's because of the over-use you're talking about that I was so genuinely surprised to encounter you, a real Nazi, who venerates Adolf Hitler. You are as rare a creature in America as a real Marxist (another pejorative that has been over-used to point of meaninglessness). So for all those on SN who are guilty of mis-using or over-using "nazi" as a scare word, they should really look to you for what an actual Nazi is and how he talks. You might not agree with jmorris and oppose everything he stands for, but he is no cartoon-cutout and you cannot dismiss him.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday December 20 2017, @05:30PM (8 children)
You might try rereading my original post. To make it easy I will highlight the important bit:
This was in reply to another user's informative comment [soylentnews.org] but it is modded into oblivion currently. Sometime an AC posts something worthy.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @08:11PM (7 children)
That AC's comment is not informative, but misinformative. Saying fascism is the same as socialism because of controls on labor and the economy would also mean absolute monarchy is the same, too.
It further illustrates how silly that reasoning is if we transpose it to another area: a capacitor is the same thing as a resistor because they both control the flow of electrons in a circuit. That would be a stupid and ignorant thing to assert, and if i did that, and persisted in asserting it after being corrected countless times by electrical engineers or others who understand circuits, they would dismiss me as a fucking idiot. They would be right to do so.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @08:36PM (1 child)
Yes and we classify both as passive electronic components.
Except as I also pointed out to you above, fascism developed from socialism. The far-left really don't like the facts but simply cannot realistically claim that fascism has anything to do with liberal individualism. They will only find justification for things like Mussolini's syndicalist production policies or Hitlers nationalisations espoused under their own banners. The far-left are even more repulsed by the origins of fascism than the 100,000,000 people dead under their own stupid ideology.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 20 2017, @09:17PM
Damn you're stupid.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday December 20 2017, @09:36PM (3 children)
No, that is just retarded. A better analogy would be Fascism is to Communism like Protestants are related to Catholics while both fit into the larger group "Christians." Fascism is a Communist "heresy" but is clearly an offshoot from it. Marxism / Socialism is the enclosing set for both.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 20 2017, @11:32PM (2 children)
You clearly have no idea what Marxism was all about, and also have no idea what Nietzschean philosophy was. Go read them over Christmas and learn what they were talking about so you can stop repeating what is patently incorrect. Fascism opposed communism and socialism from the very start.
It's ok that you're ignorant of the Western canon, if you're not trying to parade around and lecture to others what it is, and what belongs to what. But you are parading around insisting on definitions that are incorrect. It's like you keep screaming that Macs and PCs are exactly the same thing, while the rest of us keep saying you have got that wrong.
You do realize, don't you, that you can still cede the point that they are very different and still not like either one, right? I don't. Most people in Western democracies don't either.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 2) by jmorris on Tuesday December 26 2017, @06:15PM (1 child)
Still reading Capital, so depressing though. So many millions of people dead because so many others wanted to believe that shit so badly they refused to see his Labor Theory of Value was obviously wrong and everything in that damned book hinged on it. So much death and suffering for a lie people told themselves. No intent to dive into a depressing pit of suck like Nietzsche next though. For my next "read the enemy's books" I'm planning on going to what appears to be the root of the problem with Bentham.
How is that statement in conflict with what I said? I said Fascism is a heresy, in exactly the same way Protestantism is a "heresy" of Catholicism. Read a history book, notice how much they killed each other? International Socialism (Soviet Communism) and the National Socialisms (Fascism, Nazism, etc) conflicted exactly the same way but all are forked from the same root philosophy and share far more in common than points of difference. Or observe the warring sects in the Islamic world, they believe, from an outside observer's position, almost the same thing yet they kill each other... when they can't kill us.
Other than the TPM in a modern PC and the Apple security thingy in a Mac, what is the difference? Purely legal, one is legal to boot OS X and the other isn't. Both can boot Fedora, Ubuntu or even Windows 10 just fine, both use UEFI, Intel chipsets, etc. Keyboard is a bit goofy on a Mac and the pointer is intentionally crippled. A modern Mac is far closer to a PC than a Chromebook is. The bad analogy police want a word with you.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday December 27 2017, @01:19AM
Yes, that's the fatal flaw in Marx's theory. It does unravel everything. The even sadder part about Karl is that the stuff he really screamed about in the Communist Manifesto (a great rant, I always thought) was something that Adam Smith railed against at the end of the Wealth of Nations many years before him, so he wasn't even original with his critique of the crippling side effects of production line capitalism.
No, you should read Nietzsche. Thus Spake Zarathustra is quite readable and actually has some laugh lines (I thought). His philosophy of the Will to Power has a bracing, Kantian like categorical imperative-ness to it. Being the Hitler admirer you are, you will almost instantly discern the intellectual connection the Third Reich had to Nietzchean thought. Even Leni Riefenstahl's masterpiece Triumph of the Will echoed it in its title. "Ubermensch" ('superman') is another concept they borrowed from him.
Beyond his direct influence on 20th century fascism, Nietzsche also gave birth to modernism and all its permutations in art and architecture and everything else. It's an absolute must for an understanding of the world we all grew up in in the West.
Reading Bentham is going backward into the Western canon, but if you haven't done so already it's worth returning to his work because he set up the form that everyone else echoed or reacted to afterward.
I dunno if you're following a syllabus, but if not make sure you don't miss Durkheim. He's more modern, but he's the father of the modern social sciences and that in turn has influenced every level of democracy and capitalism that characterizes American society and post-WWII Europe.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday December 21 2017, @06:58AM
There is no contradiction.
Suppose that King Saud wants socialism. He gives the order, and it is so. Actually, Saudi Arabia a bit socialist already? Hmmm, well, the extreme oil situation makes the economy pointless to compare with the rest of the world. It isn't the monarchy that makes comparison difficult.
On some level, the absolute monarch does own everything already, but typically normal people still get some sort of ownership. It's really just eminent domain, like we have in the US, with perhaps some different rules related to how things are seized. It's not so different.
So if the absolute monarch wants to micromanage, he can go socialist or even full communist. If he'd rather not micromanage, he can go capitalist free-market. It's up to him.
The same thing goes for an elected government. It can be communist, capitalist, whatever. The difference is just a matter of how the leaders gain and keep power.
Similarly, a monarchy could be nationalist or globalist. I think we have a globalist one in Vatican City.
Combine "nationalist monarchy" with "socialist monarchy" and you get "nazi/fascist monarchy".