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posted by mrpg on Saturday January 06 2018, @08:30AM   Printer-friendly
from the I-pick-south-france dept.

[...] Some experts estimate that climate change could force between 150 and 300 million people to find a new place to live by the middle of this century, though there is considerable uncertainty about the amount. Finding suitable locations to house them will be a significant impediment. As Michael Gerrard explained, "part of the problem is scale. If we're talking about millions of people having to be on the move, it just doesn't work."

In the U.S., there are very few habitable places that aren't already occupied by homes, businesses, or agriculture, or preserved as park lands or forests. Meanwhile, rural areas would provide few opportunities for migrants to find employment and rebuild their lives.

Instead, Gerrard suggested moving people from high-risk areas to cities whose populations are shrinking, such as Detroit, Michigan. He sees cities' potential for vertical development, energy-efficient buildings, and public transportation as a way to sustainably host climate migrants.

What if refugees from Caribbean islands don't want to live in Detroit?


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 06 2018, @05:22PM (14 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 06 2018, @05:22PM (#618826)

    Ignorant fools like yourself are WHY there is so much pressure. You bought the anti-science propaganda and now question all the valid science, you are their sucker.

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  • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Saturday January 06 2018, @07:28PM (11 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 06 2018, @07:28PM (#618855) Journal

    Ignorant fools like yourself are WHY there is so much pressure.

    Keep up the pressure then. Every absurd claim the Chicken Littles make will undermine their efforts the more.

    • (Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 06 2018, @10:27PM (10 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 06 2018, @10:27PM (#618909)

      Cause you don't seem to understand how complicated the systems are and how difficult it is to predict global weather. You toss out valid science just because some of the more wild predictions haven't come true yet.

      We achieved global action for the hole in the ozone layer. It took a long time but the hole has been mending. We are seeing the actual effects of global warming and CO2 pollution, increased global temp average, extreme weather conditions, and acidification of the ocean.

      But hey, who needs facts? Why not just bundle them into "there are natural cycles"? Who needs to plan ahead? That costs money!! Boooo planning! Boooo!!

      As usual you types need everyone else to compromise their integrity in order to accommodate the bullshit you've swallowed. You are literally ruining the world with your propaganda beliefs.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by deimtee on Sunday January 07 2018, @01:50AM (5 children)

        by deimtee (3272) on Sunday January 07 2018, @01:50AM (#618964) Journal

        I can't speak for khallow, but personally I toss out most of the climate change rhetoric precisely because it is not science. Science is not policy or political consensus, science does not dictate what you should or should not do.
        Science has no ethics. Science attempts to accurately describes the universe as it is, and make predictions based on that understanding.
        Anyone who attempts to suppress inconvenient data is not a scientist, he/she is a politician. The minute someone starts advocating policy changes, they are acting as a politician not a scientist.

        Are we dumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere? - Yes, and measuring this is science.
        If the climate changing as a result? - Probably, and determining this is science.

        Is this change good or bad? - Don't know yet, and this is a value judgement.
        Do we need to stop dumping CO2 into the atmosphere ? - probably be a good idea until we know the result, this is a value judgement.

        What are the ways we can reduce CO2 levels? - many, this is science
        What is the best way to reduce CO2 levels? - don't know, but this is an economic value judgement

        --
        If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
        • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday January 07 2018, @05:55AM (4 children)

          by dry (223) on Sunday January 07 2018, @05:55AM (#619028) Journal

          Science is not policy or political consensus, science does not dictate what you should or should not do.

          So you ignore washing your hands and shit in your drinking water because it isn't sciences place to make value judgements and tell you what to do? Lots of people died while scientists were reaching a consensus on the germ theory of disease, especially when it was mostly statistical.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by deimtee on Sunday January 07 2018, @06:36AM (3 children)

            by deimtee (3272) on Sunday January 07 2018, @06:36AM (#619035) Journal

            No. You still display a lack of understanding.
            Science tells you "if you shit in your drinking water you will probably get sick".
            It does not say whether this is good or bad, it is just true.
            Deciding whether or not to shit in your drinking water is a value judgement.

            --
            If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
            • (Score: 2) by dry on Sunday January 07 2018, @07:02AM (2 children)

              by dry (223) on Sunday January 07 2018, @07:02AM (#619039) Journal

              True, but to be human is to say "do not shit in your water, as it will make you sick" and also to attempt to get the government to fix the leaky cesspit and even attempt to force those who are helping women to give birth after coming from the dissection room to wash their hands.
              Science is a human endeavor and can not be separated.

              • (Score: 2) by gottabeme on Tuesday January 09 2018, @04:38AM (1 child)

                by gottabeme (1531) on Tuesday January 09 2018, @04:38AM (#619861)

                Science is a human endeavor and can not be separated.

                Which is precisely the problem with science. If only you could follow your observation to its logical conclusion.

                • (Score: 2) by dry on Tuesday January 09 2018, @05:21AM

                  by dry (223) on Tuesday January 09 2018, @05:21AM (#619874) Journal

                  What do you suggest? Quit doing science?

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 07 2018, @05:01AM (3 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 07 2018, @05:01AM (#619012) Journal

        Cause you don't seem to understand how complicated the systems are and how difficult it is to predict global weather. You toss out valid science just because some of the more wild predictions haven't come true yet.

        And you seem to be projecting. For all this complexity and difficulty, a lot of people seem to have no trouble projecting an air of false certainty about their predictions.

        We achieved global action for the hole in the ozone layer. It took a long time but the hole has been mending. We are seeing the actual effects of global warming and CO2 pollution, increased global temp average, extreme weather conditions, and acidification of the ocean.

        I find it interesting that you can't even show that this ozone hole is human-caused. The model and research indicates that it is likely that human produced CFCs and other ozone producing chemicals have had an effect, but your description of the ozone hole's recent dynamics is based on opinion, not actual science. It may be a new creation of our Industrial Age, or the latest iteration of five million years of ozone holes that come and go. So sure, the ozone hole might be coming back because ozone destroying chemicals declined over the past three decades, or because it naturally waxes and wanes.

        Observation bias is a huge problem with climate research. Just because we see a phenomenon now when we look for the first time doesn't mean that the phenomenon occurred for the first time. That's one example of the complexity which routinely gets ignored.

        But hey, who needs facts? Why not just bundle them into "there are natural cycles"? Who needs to plan ahead? That costs money!! Boooo planning! Boooo!!

        I'm interested in facts. Are you going to come up with a few, or merely continue to tell me what I think?

        Moving on, the point of planning is either to have a better outcome or insure against a negative consequence in the future. I don't think such of schemes that make matters worse in the present while doing little to prepare for the future. For example, Germany's Energiewende has doubled the cost of electricity for its residents, while doing little to reduce Germany's CO2 emissions. Or the Kyoto climate treaty which has mandated stringent reductions of greenhouse gasses emissions in the developed world, but had no consequence to overall emissions.

        These aren't plans. They're virtue signalling.

        As usual you types need everyone else to compromise their integrity in order to accommodate the bullshit you've swallowed. You are literally ruining the world with your propaganda beliefs.

        Do you have integrity to compromise? Constructing a ludicrous straw man doesn't strike me as promising.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 07 2018, @07:03PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 07 2018, @07:03PM (#619241)

          I guess time will tell, with any luck we'll be able to adapt in time and idiots like you will go around saying "see we didn't need to freak out decades ago!". The rest of us will roll our eyes and pray the next generation is better.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 07 2018, @09:48PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 07 2018, @09:48PM (#619294) Journal

            I guess time will tell, with any luck we'll be able to adapt in time and idiots like you will go around saying "see we didn't need to freak out decades ago!".

            I don't think it'll take much luck.

            And then

            The rest of us will roll our eyes and pray the next generation is better.

            Because apparently the current "smart" generation can't understand how to present a science-based argument.

          • (Score: 2) by gottabeme on Tuesday January 09 2018, @04:41AM

            by gottabeme (1531) on Tuesday January 09 2018, @04:41AM (#619863)

            In other words, you will continue to believe what you believe now, regardless of future evidence. Sounds like religion to me.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 07 2018, @01:21AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 07 2018, @01:21AM (#618956)

    Blasphemous heretics like you are why there is so much pressure. You bought the anti-Gore propaganda, and now question all the tenets of the one true religion, you are their sucker.

    FTFY

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 07 2018, @07:26PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 07 2018, @07:26PM (#619249)

      Go boil your head, it'll probably help.