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posted by mrpg on Saturday January 06 2018, @08:30AM   Printer-friendly
from the I-pick-south-france dept.

[...] Some experts estimate that climate change could force between 150 and 300 million people to find a new place to live by the middle of this century, though there is considerable uncertainty about the amount. Finding suitable locations to house them will be a significant impediment. As Michael Gerrard explained, "part of the problem is scale. If we're talking about millions of people having to be on the move, it just doesn't work."

In the U.S., there are very few habitable places that aren't already occupied by homes, businesses, or agriculture, or preserved as park lands or forests. Meanwhile, rural areas would provide few opportunities for migrants to find employment and rebuild their lives.

Instead, Gerrard suggested moving people from high-risk areas to cities whose populations are shrinking, such as Detroit, Michigan. He sees cities' potential for vertical development, energy-efficient buildings, and public transportation as a way to sustainably host climate migrants.

What if refugees from Caribbean islands don't want to live in Detroit?


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  • (Score: 2) by Arik on Sunday January 07 2018, @11:39PM (5 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Sunday January 07 2018, @11:39PM (#619328) Journal
    "I don't know about plant growth permanently removing CO2. What I see where I live is trees grow, die, and generally rot. Some ends up in swamps and is taken out of the system and some is harvested, put into houses and such and taken out of the system, but most seems to rot and return the carbon to the atmosphere."

    Even the ones that rot do not entirely return to the atmosphere.

    "As part of the natural process, some of the carbon is released into the atmosphere, but some carbon is captured within the soil and increases the soil's organic matter content. Soil organic matter consists of the living mass of microorganisms in soil and the decomposed residues like humus. This soil organic carbon component has been calculated to be about twice the amount of carbon present in the atmosphere, and about 2.5 times the amount of carbon present in the plants living on the soil. As part of the carbon cycle, the carbon present in the decomposing plant material and present within the soil is retained in the soil, or is consumed by soil organisms. Soil organisms respire carbon dioxide into the soil, which then diffuses into the atmosphere."

    https://teeic.indianaffairs.gov/er/carbon/apptech/terrapp/index.htm

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  • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday January 08 2018, @12:25AM (4 children)

    by dry (223) on Monday January 08 2018, @12:25AM (#619338) Journal

    But at what speed? The temperate rain forest I live in has been here for about 12000 years and produces a lot of growth and there still isn't much soil. Down in the valley bottoms there is a lot of soil but it is a small percentage of the land.

    • (Score: 2) by Arik on Monday January 08 2018, @01:51AM (3 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Monday January 08 2018, @01:51AM (#619356) Journal
      "But at what speed? The temperate rain forest I live in has been here for about 12000 years and produces a lot of growth and there still isn't much soil. Down in the valley bottoms there is a lot of soil but it is a small percentage of the land."

      Without knowing where you're talking about it's hard to say much, but if you're in a rocky mountainous area then the soil created there does indeed tend to wash downstream. It still exists.

      Bottom land is where it builds up, and that's where the denser soils will be found. There's plenty of potential bottom land in the subarctic, and in the deserts.

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      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday January 08 2018, @03:51AM (2 children)

        by dry (223) on Monday January 08 2018, @03:51AM (#619391) Journal

        I'm in the Pacific North West part of N. America, rocky mountains but fairly flat right here.
        I've just spent a half hour trying to research just how fast carbon gets sequestered into soil. Hard to find much as so many results are about artificial plans to sequester.
        Seems not very cut and dried, with most carbon stored in forests and forest soils with predictions of more fires and insect infestations releasing more carbon then is being stored but hard to find much info.
        One thing that did stand out and brings us full circle is this quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_biological_carbon_cycle [wikipedia.org]

        Higher CO2 levels in the atmosphere can cause photosynthesis to take place more efficiently, thus increasing plant growth and primary production. This could lead to the biosphere extracting more carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. How long this carbon would remain sequestered in the terrestrial biosphere before being rereleased into the atmosphere is unclear, however, and it is likely that other limiting factors (e.g. nitrogen availability, moisture, etc.) would prevent CO2 fertilization from significantly increasing primary production.

        So back to the question off how much increased CO2 helps plant growth if other nutrients are still in short supply.

        If you have any good sources for how fast soil sequestration works, I'd be interested in seeing them.

        • (Score: 2) by Arik on Monday January 08 2018, @04:07AM (1 child)

          by Arik (4543) on Monday January 08 2018, @04:07AM (#619400) Journal
          That's the frustrating thing about this. As I've said several times, there are many many different known cycles like this, and potentially unknown ones as well, and good luck finding good sources for the nitty gritty of just how they work and under what conditions. Instead there are tons of hand-waves, like you quoted from wikipedia. "It is likely?" An estimate, without a source. Even if it had a source it's still nothing but a guess. Where are the numbers?
          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 2) by dry on Monday January 08 2018, @05:16AM

            by dry (223) on Monday January 08 2018, @05:16AM (#619419) Journal

            It's a problem. The simpler things can be tested, setup a bunch of greenhouses and give various types of plants different levels/mixtures of nutrients including CO2. Even that is hard for the average person to do though there has been enough studies to show plants do need a balance of nutrients.
            Other things such as managing the carbon in a managed forest rapidly become very complex. I came across some modeling software released by my government. Has a 450 page user manual along with 250 pages of tutorials. http://fcm.sgrc.selkirk.ca/decision-support/cbm-cfs3/ [selkirk.ca]. I don't currently have the skills or the time to research how this works, little well to judge if they missed something.

            All I'm left with is to try to do as little harm as possible, but I do have to eat, have shelter, etc.