SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
Bluestone, which now has 20 stores in the U.S., went cashless last October.
A big reason: Nearly 90 percent of customers [...] never paid in cash.
Another reason: The lines move faster when employees don't have to make change.
"We see a lot of guests that pay for a meal with a credit card, but will always leave a cash tip. And I think people like doing that. People like palming a bartender a $20 or palming their server a $10. Palming the bus boy a couple bucks," said Fileccia.
There are also people, he said, who want to keep their meal off the books — if they're having an affair, for example.
No, businesses are not required to accept cash: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
When The Cash Register Doesn't Take Cash
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 101 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
I'm mentally OVERDRAWN! What's that SIGNPOST up ahead? Where's ROD
STERLING when you really need him?
(Score: 5, Touché) by captain normal on Tuesday January 09 2018, @06:36AM (14 children)
Did the submitter actually read the Wikipedia link? Especially the section on the U.S.? If someone goes into a restaurant and orders something and is served and tenders cash when presented with the bill, it must be accepted or the debt must be excused. Now maybe if there is a clear and very obvious signage claiming that only a credit card is to be presented for payment the business might get away with such a requirement. Like many fastfood restaurants take your order and payment before serving food. But virtually all such businesses take cash. Even if the business can survive possibly losing the 10% of it's customers who want to pay cash, it still may be operating on shaky legal grounds.
One other thing is the claim that making change takes longer than 40 seconds...maybe if your staff is on drugs or something. The 40 seconds is about right for card transactions. I've timed smart card transactions at grocery markets, and find that those transactions take at least 30 seconds and often as much as 45. Cash transactions on the other hand usually take only 10~15 seconds.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts"- --Daniel Patrick Moynihan--
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09 2018, @07:38AM
But if someone loads up a shopping cart and shows up at the register, there is no debt yet, thus no obligation for the merchant to settle with cash.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09 2018, @09:59AM (6 children)
That is my understanding of the situation in the UK; Refusing an offer of payment in legal tender discharges the debt. I pay in cash for most small transactions because I find it easier to budget.
Conversely perhaps they're taking someone out on a date? Make the other party pay half in cash and then put the bill through company books as entertainment, exactly like any self-respecting, self-employed person does? Perhaps someone wants to discuss a surprise birthday party or interpersonal problems and doesn't want their partner to see it on the statement? Suggesting an affair says more about the person speculating than those being speculated about, specifically that they are small minded and need to mind their own business!
(Score: 4, Interesting) by bzipitidoo on Tuesday January 09 2018, @10:57AM (5 children)
Yes. But there are a few wrinkles with cash. The debtor has to offer legal tender in the amount of the debt or greater. The creditor is not required to have change.
Friend of mine would fill his truck with gas at these stations that say they won't accept any bills larger than $20. Sometimes he had only a $50 bill, and he would offer it for nearly $50 worth of gas, and often they would refuse to take it until he explained that they weren't required to give him change and that if they didn't take the bill, he would drive off, with his debt discharged and if they called the police, the police would side with him. They always took the bill after hearing that.
Another wrinkle is that the one cent coin somehow doesn't have the same exalted status as all the rest of the cash denominations. I think that's so vending machines don't have to deal with them. Also I understand it is illegal to destroy money. No melting down of nickels for their metal. But pennies, yes, can legally destroy them. Many tourist places have those vending machines that take 51 cents to let you turn a crank and watch it smash the penny, imprinting a design on it, and returning it.
(Score: 1) by GDX on Tuesday January 09 2018, @12:34PM
This varies a lot for place to place, where I live the more typical is not that they do not accept large bills but that they offer a maximum of possible change. Basically in one concrete place if you offer a 200€ bill for a 160€ purchase they accept it but they don't accept a 100€ bill for a 20€ purchase as they only offer a maximum of 50€ change. And I think that this is a more sane approach.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09 2018, @06:21PM (1 child)
No, you're not allowed to destroy pennies, either. Those 51-cent machines don't actually stamp your penny - they just have a supply of blank copper pieces and stamp those, and keep the penny.
(Score: 1) by Farmer Tim on Tuesday January 09 2018, @08:04PM
Came for the news, stayed for the soap opera.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday January 09 2018, @07:05PM (1 child)
The U.S. Treasury [treasury.gov] disagrees with your friend. He was just being an ignorant jerk. Unless there was a state law requiring a private business to take denominations larger than $20, they didn't have to accept a $50 bill. As long as the payment policy was clearly posted, the police would likely side with the gas station.
A sale is a contract. A seller is not obligated to agree to the buyer's terms. If a seller posts a sign saying "I only accept goats as payment," that's perfectly legal. Granted, I think a gas station would have a hard time enforcing such a policy if it didn't restrict people who pumped their gas before offering payment. (In such a situation, they'd probably be better off forcing pre-payment in goats before allowing the pump to function.)
But the "we don't take larger than $20" thing is a pretty standard policy of many small businesses. If it's posted, it's a stated part of the terms of the sales contract, unless otherwise prohibited by law. If your friend attempted to depart the gas station with the gas in his tank without paying, he was stealing, plain and simple. And the gas station could take him to court to force him to settle said debt after the fact. (Although there, I'm not sure they could insist on small bills.)
(Score: 2) by krishnoid on Wednesday January 10 2018, @04:39AM
The guy's willing to hand over $50 for less than $50 worth of gas and not get change back; as far as jerks go, it's not like he's hogging a pump, hitting on the cashier, or using all the paper towels or something.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09 2018, @10:08AM (4 children)
The pertinent part:
is paraphrased in part from this [federalreserve.gov]:
How do you read the opposite meaning than the submitter took from it?
(Score: 3, Interesting) by pendorbound on Tuesday January 09 2018, @03:59PM (3 children)
There's a legal difference between "goods and services" and a "debt." No US business may refuse to accept US currency to pay a debt. (Well, they can, but that effectively discharges the debt, unpaid.) The currency says, "legal tender for all debts public and private." Any business MAY refuse to accept cash before they provide goods & services for you.
Where it gets grey with restaurants is where the difference between goods and serves versus a debt comes in. Fast food, pay when you place your order, before you get your food. That's goods & services. No question. If they don't want to take your cash, they refuse your order. No debt created, no McHolesterol with cheese for you.
A sit-down restaurant where you order, eat, then pay is different. They've served you food ahead of payment, creating a debt. You can pay that debt with legal tender. If they refuse, the debt is discharged. They may or may not be required to give you change if you don't have exact. Pretty sure that varies by state. If the bill is $42, you slap a $50 on the table and walk out, if they call the cops, the cops will tell them to pound sand. If you throw a fit and say you want your $8 change, chances are you're going home eight bucks lighter than you planned. Instead, throw an extra single down and at least make it a half-way decent tip.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday January 09 2018, @07:20PM
Yes, there's a reason it's a "gray area," because it's not as clear as you make it out to be either. Yes, you're correct that if someone refuses to pay after a debt is created, and they decided to sue you to recover the debt, they must accept any legal tender in court or whatever.
But things are a lot more shaky if there's a posted policy on payment options in advance. Even though sales are mostly handled informally, they are basically governed by contract law. A business that clearly informs customers of restrictions on payment in advance is basically stating the terms under which they are willing to render a service or sale. They could easily argue that acceptance of any service is a tacit agreement to said terms. (And on a much more solid legal footing than, say, an obscure clause in an EULA.)
I dare you to try to do what you claim: go to a restaurant that has a clearly stated and posted policy stating "We don't accept bills larger than $20" or whatever. Then try to offer a $50 or $100 and try to leave when they refuse. Claim that your "debt is discharged." They will call the police. And you will likely end up paying one way or another. (Unless there's a state law prohibiting said business policies.) Eventually you might end up in court. And eventually they might end up being forced to accept your $50 bill there. BUT I guarantee you you're not getting away with "Oh, too bad, my debt is now discharged and I owe you nothing."
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Tuesday January 09 2018, @09:17PM
I think that interpretation gets trumpeted a lot by people playing at being a lawyer (with the caveat that while I'm not a lawyer, I'm at least capable of critical thinking).
If a company sues you for damaging their one of a kind MacGuffin, they must accept US currency, cash, to settle that debt. They cannot somehow force you to procure a replacement MacGuffin for repayment, or payment via credit card (although the company and the courts may agree to charge extra for the processing and transport of a large amount of physical currency).
However, eating at a restaurant is a normal exchange between buyer and seller, even if you pay after. If the restaurant did not make their payment policies clear, you might end up settling or going to court, but you are NOT cleared of "debt" by default.
Now, if you eat and pay (or not pay), the restaurant is satisfied, and then they turn around and sue you for civil damages later and win the case somehow, they are obligated to accept US currency, cash, for the repayment. They cannot force you to repay using a credit card for example.
Join the SDF Public Access UNIX System today!
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday January 10 2018, @10:32PM
Legal citation, or stand down. And Juilliard v. Greenman does not count - that case was strictly about whether or not banknotes carried the same force as coin as Legal Tender. (i.e. you say you accept Cash but then refuse banknotes and accept coins... That's not legal.)
As to your examples.... You drop a $100 bill on the table of a restaurant for a $1 McDouble (yeah, I know Mickey D's don't work like this), restaurant refuses, you try to walk away. They may call the cops. Cops may or may not arrest you for theft. But I sue you, I'm gonna get my dollar.
By the way... you want authority for the above? Try the U.S. Treasury. https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx [treasury.gov]
You're welcome.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday January 10 2018, @10:26PM
I think you're the person who did not read the last sentences on the section on U.S. in the Legal Tender article. What part of...
....made you think that a place can't accept cash? You place the order, it's given to you, the debt has been created for you to fulfill. Especially if you've eaten it. If you drop a $100 bill on the table, the establishment has every right to tell you they won't accept that and you still owe the debt. Until or unless you go to court to prove that the debt was satisfied.
That thing on the note that it's Legal Tender for All Debts, Private and Public, was put on there because there were a LOT of questions about whether those notes (especially when backed by gold) were legal for the U.S. Government to print and declare they were money. Has nothing to do with requiring they be accepted as such, and everything to do with the authority of the government to say that they CAN be.
For order and to avoid conflict, this place would be well advised to post signs that say Credit Cards Only - We Don't Take Cash. But they are also perfectly within their rights to call the cops when someone doesn't drop payment the way they expect, especially if they've published it as such. (Same as a place putting up a sign, "We Don't Take Checks" or Credit Cards.) Stupid for them to do so with cash IMNSHO, but legal.
This sig for rent.