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posted by takyon on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:05AM   Printer-friendly
from the limited-government dept.

After 10 PM EST on Friday, The U.S. Senate rejected a deal that would fund the U.S. government for another month:

Only five Democrats voted to advance the bill — Sens. Joe Manchin (W.Va.), Joe Donnelly (Ind.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.) and Claire McCaskill (Mo.), who are all up for reelection this year in states carried by President Trump in 2016 election, and newly-elected Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.).

Republicans were also not united, as Sens. Rand Paul (Ky.), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), Mike Lee (Utah) and Jeff Flake (Ariz.) also voted against advancing the legislation. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who is battling brain cancer, was absent.

The procedural vote remained open late Friday, though it needed 60 votes to pass and was well short of that number with 48 senators voting against it.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer continued to negotiate after the vote opened (archive), but no deal has been reached yet. As of midnight (5 minutes before this story went live), the government shutdown was in effect.

At Wikipedia: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) and Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP). Government shutdowns in the United States.

 
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  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:33PM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @02:33PM (#625158)

    So I'd take your question, "will the religious right EVER get a clue and realize they are being played?" and amend it to, "will the American citizens EVER get a clue and realize they are being played?"

    When will people stop giving the religious (right or left) any credibility at all? They're reality-challenged from first principles, having failed the most basic test of being able to reason their way out of the most basic paper bag around: superstition.

    Religion is a social disease. Educate your children better. It's the only way to nuke religion from orbit. You can't force it out once it takes root. You can only get in front of society's religious infection, and thereby prevent it from getting into your kids, at least if your kids aren't dumb-as-posts. Hopefully gene editing will soon reduce the large portion of the population that is congenitally stupid. You'd think if you could ensure your kids would be smart, you'd make sure they were smart. Even so, until then, you could still teach about half the population to observe and reason instead of bow to fantasy-as-fact if you get in there early enough with a decent reality-based upbringing.

    The phrase "religious right" is synonymous with "reality-rejecting right." Likewise left. Or center. Etc. These are not people you should want winning elections, running companies, variously regulating behavior, etc. The odds hugely favor them screwing things up - history demonstrates this over and over again.

    They're not the only problem we have, but they sure are a significant one.

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  • (Score: 2, Touché) by khallow on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:25PM (7 children)

    by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:25PM (#625184) Journal

    When will people stop giving the religious (right or left) any credibility at all?

    Because they are productive, relatively honest members of society. Isn't disfranchising the people who make society work a big part of the problem in the first place?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:48PM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @04:48PM (#625189)

      Because they are ... relatively honest

      They are the polar opposite of honest. They're lying to themselves, and then spreading that everywhere they can.

      Isn't disfranchising the people who make society work a big part of the problem in the first place?

      These people don't "make society work", they screw society up and impede its efficient working.

      Moreover, I wasn't suggesting anyone disenfranchise them other than get them out of government (or make them behave rationally when there.) I specifically said they could not be fixed. I was suggesting we prevent more of them from damaging our social and legal system by effectively educating our offspring and thereby reducing their numbers. I also think that re-electing the current crop of superstitionists to positions of governmental responsibility is self-destructive specifically because they can't think straight. That is the polar opposite of "productive" in political / regulatory terms.

      The influence of such people has been the fundamental cause of many of our toxic laws and regulations. From clerks who won't issue marriage licenses, to legislation that give tax benefits to superstitious enterprises, to regulation that provides broadcast primacy to superstitious broadcasting, the damage is broadly evident and deeply harmful.

      When it comes to disenfranchisement, if all they are capable of doing is occupy a political or regulatory position poorly, then they aren't competent to hold one anyway. Let them (learn to, if necessary) bake bread, deal with plumbing, run or work on assembly lines, etc. Just stop encouraging them to impose their superstitions on everyone else via legislation and regulation. Take that legendary wall of separation between church and state seriously. It'd do society a world of good. Or at least a country of good.

      While all that plays out, try to fix the kids.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:19PM (5 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Saturday January 20 2018, @05:19PM (#625209) Journal

        They are the polar opposite of honest. They're lying to themselves, and then spreading that everywhere they can.

        I did say "relatively honest".

        These people don't "make society work", they screw society up and impede its efficient working.

        Except that's not true. Human societies, collectively were a lot more religious than they are now, and yet somehow we got to the present state of affairs, which let us note, has a lot of working societies. If religions really were the obstacles you claim they are, then we wouldn't have come from the primitive societies of the past to the present.

        We can come up with examples where religions have hindered or helped society. For example, northern India of the 4th and 5th century experienced a decline of fortune due in part to a growing divergence between Buddhist practitioners and their societies. Christians are blamed for destroying ancient writings including burning of at least part of the Library of Alexandria. The Roman Catholic Church had for around a thousand years suppressed dissent and heretical ideas throughout the region of Europe subject to its authority.

        OTOH, religion has also served to mitigate some of the worst excesses of humanity and was a key aspect of ancient law and morality. The era of religious schism in Europe served to usher in the Age of Enlightenment.

        And on a more individual level, the people who you criticize are better people for being religious, precisely for the reasons you say should hinder their credibility. If someone is going to believe in a harmless sky god, isn't that better than the host of really bad ideas that they could be believing in instead? It provides a rather harmless outlet for people who would otherwise be more open to harmful beliefs.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:06PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @06:06PM (#625223)

          OK so since it's just something that's nice for people to pass the time, let's agree to remove their tax sheltered status.

          I have things that are nice and probably keep me out of harm. Where's my tax shelter?

        • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:49PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:49PM (#625334)

          Wow, guess you haven't met too many religious people or more likely you're completely oblivious to their flaws. Likely a fish / fishbowl syndrome. There are many people who are good people and not religious, and they are able to find common ground with their community and be successful. I get your points and they aren't all wrong, but "believe in a harmless sky god"? Harmless is hardly the word I would use, untold amounts of suffering have come directly from the belief that the bible is literally the word of god.

          But hell, I'm explaining reality to khallow, a fruitless exercise. You RWNJs just come here to circle jerk and upmod lame "libruhls baaad" posts.

          • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:47AM (2 children)

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 21 2018, @03:47AM (#625509) Journal

            Wow, guess you haven't met too many religious people or more likely you're completely oblivious to their flaws.

            And I guess you're ignorant.

            There are many people who are good people and not religious, and they are able to find common ground with their community and be successful.

            And I bet a fair number of them are religious, you just didn't know.

            Harmless is hardly the word I would use, untold amounts of suffering have come directly from the belief that the bible is literally the word of god.

            And that is relevant how? Because one can find a harmful religious belief, then religion is harmful? That's the fallacy of equating parts with the whole, which has been a problem since some AC started spouting stereotypes about religion in the first place.

            But hell, I'm explaining reality to khallow, a fruitless exercise.

            It's only fruitless for those who choose not to learn.

            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:34AM (1 child)

              by aristarchus (2645) on Sunday January 21 2018, @07:34AM (#625552) Journal

              Khallow, you know that thing you do, the one we talked about? Yeah, you're doing it again. God will punish you for this act of hubris. And the lust in your heart. And the worship of Mammon, you did not think that would just slide by without being noticed? Get back on the right path, khallow. I recommend 5000 Hail Mary's, and 2450 Our Fathers, and a donation of $100 to the EFF. May Humanity have mercy on your soul.

              • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday January 21 2018, @11:30AM

                by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday January 21 2018, @11:30AM (#625604) Journal
                Funny that you come in right now. I was already thinking as I wrote my previous reply to cases where you've made similar sounding noises [soylentnews.org], speaking of knowledge and ignorance, but without an actual argument in support. Should you ever want to learn rather than just make monkey noises, perhaps you consider the difference between my argument previously in this thread and your arguments mentioned in my linked post above.
  • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:42PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 20 2018, @09:42PM (#625327)

    Remember how the smallpox vaccine works. You infect people with cowpox, which is a mild disease, and then they are immune to smallpox.

    It's like that with Christianity and Islam.

    I'll take Christianity, thank you very much. If we lose Christianity, then there is a void into which Islam will vigorously grow. We'd go back to living like it is the year 700, and you'd soon be dead if you complained. Appeasement does not make the problem go away.

    So, while I find all the Christian prayer irritating, I am sort of thankful for it. This world has far worse cultural viruses.