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posted by Fnord666 on Monday January 29 2018, @02:46PM   Printer-friendly
from the Quis-custodiet-ipsos-custodes? dept.

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

Hackers from the Dutch intelligence service AIVD have provided the FBI with crucial information about Russian interference with the American elections. For years, AIVD had access to the infamous Russian hacker group Cozy Bear. That's what de Volkskrant and Nieuwsuur have uncovered in their investigation.

It's the summer of 2014. A hacker from the Dutch intelligence agency AIVD has penetrated the computer network of a university building next to the Red Square in Moscow, oblivious to the implications. One year later, from the AIVD headquarters in Zoetermeer, he and his colleagues witness Russian hackers launching an attack on the Democratic Party in the United States. The AIVD hackers had not infiltrated just any building; they were in the computer network of the infamous Russian hacker group Cozy Bear. And unbeknownst to the Russians, they could see everything.

That's how the AIVD becomes witness to the Russian hackers harassing and penetrating the leaders of the Democratic Party, transferring thousands of emails and documents. It won't be the last time they alert their American counterparts. And yet, it will be months before the United States realize what this warning means: that with these hacks the Russians have interfered with the American elections. And the AIVD hackers have seen it happening before their very eyes.

The Dutch access provides crucial evidence of the Russian involvement in the hacking of the Democratic Party, according to six American and Dutch sources who are familiar with the material, but wish to remain anonymous. It's also grounds for the FBI to start an investigation into the influence of the Russian interference on the election race between the Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and the Republican candidate Donald Trump.

Translated by: Lisa Negrijn

It's quite an interesting read.


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @02:51PM (43 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @02:51PM (#629814)

    ... influence, then maybe your system is crap and shouldn't exist in the first place.

    A vote given to a person for free is going to be vote that isn't spent wisely; make people work for their right to vote in any given election.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @02:58PM (33 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @02:58PM (#629817)

    Doctors have to prove that they remain competent; maybe voters should have to prove the same.

    Perhaps voters should have to complete "Continuing Education" every 4 years or so, showing that they retain a knowledge for how the system works, who has been elected so far, what the deficits are, etc.

    Of course, a bad doctor also goes out of business. Maybe the right to vote should similarly be tied to one's economic productivity.

    This is why we cannot have nice conversations:

    • Invalid form key: pjeUBRFviN

    • Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet, anonymous comment posting has temporarily been disabled. You can still login to post. However, if bad posting continues from your IP or Subnet that privilege could be revoked as well. If it's you, consider this a chance to sit in the timeout corner or login and improve your posting. If it's someone else, this is a chance to hunt them down. If you think this is unfair, please email admin@soylentnews.org with your MD5'd IPID and SubnetID, which are REDACTED and REDACTED.

    • (Score: 2, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:13PM (11 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:13PM (#629826)

      That's a genius idea that has never been tried before and has never been used to suppress minorities. How can we possibly trust whoever makes these tests to not abuse this power to try to suppress the votes of groups they do not like?

      who has been elected so far, what the deficits are

      Your bias is already showing. What does "who has been elected so far" mean exactly? And why is knowing trivia like the deficit relevant to whether or not you should be allowed to vote?

      Well, this idea is unconstitutional, anyway.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:31PM (10 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @03:31PM (#629838)

        Your rebuttal could be said for doctors.

        I guess when it comes to knife against flesh, people take things a bit more serious, and thank goodness that they do.

        Also, "It's unconstitutional" is irrelevant; the very discussion is about the nature of the existing system, and how it could be changed.

        • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:00PM (9 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:00PM (#629841)

          Your rebuttal could be said for doctors.

          False equivalence. Testing doctors will not lead to the suppression of certain groups of people, and nor are there any obvious motivations for doing so.

          Voting tests have always been used for suppression of groups deemed undesirable. If you're at all skeptical of the government - which you should be - then you already do not want it to have the power to forbid people from voting based on the results of some tests that it itself would create. Sounds like Big Government to me.

          I find it even more laughable that the knowledge you suggested people should have before being allowed to vote reveal why voting tests are such a bad idea. You could choose just the right questions so as to suppress people who are unlikely to vote for a particular party.

          Also, "It's unconstitutional" is irrelevant; the very discussion is about the nature of the existing system, and how it could be changed.

          It's at times like these that I'm glad it's difficult to change the Constitution.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:36PM (8 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:36PM (#629862)

            Let's start there. Answer me that.

            And, please, no snide "Your type".

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:34PM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:34PM (#629897)

              Oh, you're the guy who always starts his posts in the subject field. My mistake. Congratulations, I guess.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:45PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:45PM (#629938)

                He's been hoist by his own petard.

                • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:29PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:29PM (#629982)

                  Yes, your reputation follows you. You may not have an account but you've shitposted here long enough that I often suspect you're in a thread and then you confirm it with some of your more drastic positions. Like putting half our comment in the subject line. Others have done it, but paired with your general block headed nature it is probably a 97% accurate assessment.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:12AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:12AM (#630179)

                    The thing that amazes me about our anarcho-capitalist anon is how he's able to just keep on going, and going, and going, and going, and going....

                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:39AM

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:39AM (#630201) Journal

                      He's able to do that because he doesn't put any actual thought into his posts. I see this with apologists too; they don't need to invest much in their posts because the thinking, and I am using the word very generously here, has already been done for them. They just have to sit there and squeeze, pardon the imagery...

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @10:08PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @10:08PM (#630056)

              If you are dumb, you shouldn't vote. We ought to have a high standard for this, probably without a sharp cutoff. For example, votes get weighted according to intelligence percentile. Throw a few IQ questions on the ballot.

              If your family contains anybody who has ever been here illegally, you shouldn't vote.

              If you have no investment in the future of the country, you shouldn't vote. This means you need children or, if over the age of 60, you need grandchildren.

              If you believe in the supremacy of a non-constitutional form of law, you shouldn't vote.

              If your family doesn't pay more in taxes than you receive in benefits (including government employee salary) then you shouldn't vote.

              If you hold any non-USA citizenship, you shouldn't vote.

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:21AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:21AM (#630131)

                My Gawd you are dumb if you think being dumb disqualifies you from voting. What are you, white or something?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:06AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:06AM (#630175)

                  wut?

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @04:12PM (13 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday January 29 2018, @04:12PM (#629848) Journal

      Do the words "poll tax" ring any bells? How long has it bloody been since fourth grade civics for you anyway?

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:43PM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:43PM (#629865)

        Given your history of comments, I'm pretty sure you live in a hay bale.

        Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet...

        Suck a cock, you trash website.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @09:32PM (8 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday January 29 2018, @09:32PM (#630035) Journal

          That isn't a straw man, you stupid motherfucker. Crack a goddamn history book for once in your life, assuming you can read beyond a kindergarten level.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:07AM (7 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:07AM (#630100)

            No, the OP's statements don't imply a poll tax either, and they certainly don't imply the shenanigans that occurred around any poll tax.

            So, try again, Mr. Haystack.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:17AM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:17AM (#630107)

              Sure there is a slight difference between a "voting license" that requires some sort of civics test and a "poll tax" which is a financial barrier, but the concepts are similar enough to convey the idea that putting barriers in front of voting only serves to disenfranchise specific groups of voters. Poll taxes prevented the poor from voting, a "voting license" will be abused by counties to make some people fail and not get a vote. History is full of this crap, so what is wrong with your brain huh?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:09AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @04:09AM (#630178)

                ... disenfranchised, no?

                So, either you think everyone should be able to vote (if only for having been born in a certain geographical location), or you don't; which is it?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:54PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:54PM (#630496)

                  Wow you are stupid. No one should be barred from voting, not even felons. The impact any single person can make is miniscule, the impact voting restrictions have is wide and general with no care for accuracy.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:32AM (3 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 30 2018, @05:32AM (#630199) Journal

              One, it's Miss Haystack, and two, as the AC below you pointed out, suppressive measures to prevent "the wrong sort" from voting always hit the poor and the undeserving of it rather than whoever they're supposed to keep out.

              Why don't you register an account and face me head-on, coward? We know it's you; no one else posts AC and starts the post in the title. Janrinok has your VPN's number. What kind of weak-sauce basement-crawling needledick has to sink this low?

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:34PM (2 children)

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday January 30 2018, @09:34PM (#630624) Homepage Journal

                Actually, martyb and I are the only ones with access to unhashed IP addresses that've spoken in IRC today. Jan's got super-mega-honcho edity powers on the website but not admin access to the underlying architecture. He'd need it to tell the webserver to start running an access log because rehash only stores it already hashed that I've found.

                Side note: The girl my mother warned me about had safety pins in her eyebrow, the sides of her head shaved, strategically ripped jeans that fit her extremely well, and quite often bruises acquired whilst kicking someone's entire ass. If that's you, it's an absolute shame you play for the wrong team.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday January 30 2018, @10:38PM (1 child)

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday January 30 2018, @10:38PM (#630682) Journal

                  I've had the bruises acquired by kicking, as you put it, peoples' entire asses, but haven't cut my hair for almost 25 years and would never scar myself up with DIY piercings. I basically look like a six-foot Caucasian yuurei in black jeans and steel-toed boots.

                  And who says I'm playing for the wrong team? :) If people could actually choose to be straight or gay, trust me, eeeevery single woman out there would be U-Hauling.

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday January 31 2018, @01:32AM

                    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Wednesday January 31 2018, @01:32AM (#630765) Homepage Journal

                    If everyone could choose who they were attracted to, you'd be absolutely correct; there would be zero straight men for straight women to want. It's undoubtedly a genetic thing. Not difficult to see the absolute necessity for it either.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:25PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @05:25PM (#629887)

        Given your history of comments, I'm pretty sure you live in a hay bale.

        Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet...

        Suck a cock, you trash website.

      • (Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:43PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @06:43PM (#629934)

        Given your history of comments, I'm pretty sure you live in a hay bale.

        Due to excessive bad posting from this IP or Subnet...

        Suck a cock, you trash website.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:50PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:50PM (#629990)

          Please stop using this trash website.

          Sincerely,
          Oscar

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Monday January 29 2018, @05:43PM (3 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @05:43PM (#629905) Journal

      The real fix is not some kind of voter qualification test -- as tempting as that sounds. That would be subject to massive manipulation as bad or worse than pole tacks, jerry meandering, or other mechanisms to prevent or erect barriers for otherwise qualified individuals to vote.

      The real fix is edumacation. Make sure all the chillin's is edumacated. As George W. Bush said: "Rarely is the question asked, is our children learning?".

      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday January 29 2018, @06:40PM

        by fustakrakich (6150) on Monday January 29 2018, @06:40PM (#629931) Journal

        The real fix is edumacation.

        I don't think so. Lots of "smart" people are still voting for republicans and democrats. Evidently they are just as easily manipulated by propaganda as anybody.

        --
        La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
      • (Score: 1) by Arik on Monday January 29 2018, @07:48PM (1 child)

        by Arik (4543) on Monday January 29 2018, @07:48PM (#629989) Journal
        "jerry meandering"

        Sorry I just thought that was adorable.
        --
        If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:19AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @12:19AM (#630110)

          Damnit Jerry this is why we never invite you on adventures. You're a worthless piece of crap, go meaaaander into the daycare center.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by janrinok on Monday January 29 2018, @06:13PM

      by janrinok (52) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @06:13PM (#629913) Journal

      This is why we cannot have nice conversations:

      I sometimes doubt your reading comprehension.

      You are probably using a VPN to help mask your identity. The same IP address has been frequently used for bad posting and, as it quite clearly informs you, it has been temporarily disabled. The problem is PEBKAC [wikipedia.org] at your end.

      You can still login to post.

      You have made the choice that your anonymity is more important than your ability to have your point of view heard. If you log in, you will probably not see this message. Either change your VPN or learn to live with your choices.

    • (Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday January 30 2018, @03:26PM (1 child)

      by Wootery (2341) on Tuesday January 30 2018, @03:26PM (#630396)

      maybe voters should have to prove the same.

      No, they should not. Unsurprisingly for an AC, you don't understand what you're talking about. Democracy isn't all about picking the best politicians.

      Half the point of democracy is that everyone who is governed, gets to vote on government. This gives rise to a sense of legitimacy that other systems of government lack. If you try to tweak the system to disqualify parts of the populace in the name of getting the system to elect better politicians, you're going to introduce a societal cost and instability that easily outweighs any advantage that you might win (and I doubt there'd be any).

      Also, politicians would be encouraged to discount the interests of those disqualified people, as they don't count when it comes to voting time. This further worsens the sense of disenfranchisement that you'd get.

      Beyond that, the idea is so open to abuse that it would be a terrible idea even if the aforementioned issues didn't arise.

      If you want to tweak democracy to get better politicians into office, look to voting systems, which can make a real difference. Your idea of disenfranchising subpopulations (I'm sure you would still be allowed to vote, right?), is utterly misguided.

      Maybe the right to vote should similarly be tied to one's economic productivity.

      That's just stupid. I'd be hard pressed to come up with a better way to bring about a civil war/revolution. Maybe you're just trolling; it's hard to tell with ACs.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:43PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 30 2018, @06:43PM (#630520)

        It really does start to feel like it is a massive troll campaign. Maybe Aristrachus is playing a twisted sort of Devil's Advocate, spewing forth the worst anarcho-capitalist crap to get good arguments against it.

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by turgid on Monday January 29 2018, @03:01PM

    by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @03:01PM (#629820) Journal

    Q: Do you promise not to vote Democrat or any other kind of pinko commie?
    A: If you insist.
    Q: Congratulations, citizen, your voting license is renewed for another four years. God bless America!

  • (Score: 2) by tizan on Monday January 29 2018, @04:36PM (7 children)

    by tizan (3245) on Monday January 29 2018, @04:36PM (#629863)

    Huh that is the whole point of an election...people get influenced to vote one way or another.

    But they are supposed to be influenced by politicians and news pertaining to issues that matter to them. Whether they are morons in your point of view or
    geniuses ...is immaterial. The people make the decision with their own capacity or non capacity ...no prerequisite test of anykind (money in bank account, color of skin, number of years in school etc) ...that is the constitution.

    It is illegal for a foreign entity to invest in advertisement to influence the election in the US and that is what happened....it is not just "unwanted", it is illegal influence (including further illegal activity of hacking and stealing emails)

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:59PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @04:59PM (#629872)

      For this discussion, it's totally irrelevant what the Constitution or the wider law says.

      The system as currently set up is brittle and reactionary.

      Voting in an election is, as with every human interaction, a question of how society's resources should be allocated; why should this question be answered by giving unequal minds an equal say? Why should people who have made poor choices for society get as much of a say as people who have made good choices for society?

      We actually have a really good system for choosing how much say a person should have over society's resources: Capitalism. The better your choices, the more say you have, and the worse your choices, the less say you have. Perhaps, then, as much of government as possible should be re-configured to work under capitalism instead of democracy.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:55PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 29 2018, @07:55PM (#629991)

        Capitalism: the system that has resulted in sequestering humanity's wealth into the hands of the few. Said wealth is then used to purchase legislation, which is obviously a branch of corruption not Capitalism, therefore any problems resulting from Capitalism will be ignored because REASONS!

        Get help you troll, stop trying to spread your Putin fanboi-ism.

      • (Score: 2, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday January 29 2018, @09:36PM

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday January 29 2018, @09:36PM (#630037) Journal

        Were you born this way or was it a lifestyle choice? I am genuinely curious.

        --
        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 2, Interesting) by khallow on Monday January 29 2018, @06:34PM (3 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Monday January 29 2018, @06:34PM (#629925) Journal

      It is illegal for a foreign entity to invest in advertisement to influence the election in the US and that is what happened....

      Not in Russia. And what happens when the advertising is done all outside of the US? Web browsers don't stop us at the US border.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by edIII on Monday January 29 2018, @08:45PM

        by edIII (791) on Monday January 29 2018, @08:45PM (#630016)

        Ultimately a bad idea anyways. Essentially suppressing the expression of views, which also happen to result in foreign economic contributions. The former is antithetical to American values, the latter is very much in line with American Capitalism.

        There are two things here with the election that matter. Hacking, and Influencing. Hacking is something we should consider an attack on our sovereignty, but that hasn't been proven anymore than massive voter fraud. Hacking in the context of "gaming" or manipulating the votes is widely practiced by everyone in the US anyways. Influencing should be completely legal and protected by the 1st. Let Kimmie buy airtime in San Francisco espousing the values of Juche. Who gives a shit? American company got paid. Maybe 1 or 2 crazy marginalized people decided to defect to NK.

        My feeling is at this point, if we were manipulated like that and we voted for Trump, we're responsible. It wasn't hacked, I actually cast my own vote.

        What concerns me is fake news, and by that, I mean the promulgation of shit known to be false and created simply to manipulate people with falsities. That is handled by slander and libel laws I would imagine, and the state could possibly sue somebody for spreading a lie that could cause harm. The point being we have ways to deal with people spreading lies already. What greatly concerns me is that it seems Trump did collude with the Russians, and he never disclosed his interests. So more conflicts of interest concerns than that we convinced Cletus, a Deplorable, to vote for Trump by spreading lies about Hillary's evil kiddie porn basement.

        Perhaps the greatest lesson from all of this is that a good percentage of us are just plain stupid and can be controlled via social media and their handlers, the shinies.

        --
        Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
      • (Score: 2) by tizan on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:14AM (1 child)

        by tizan (3245) on Tuesday January 30 2018, @01:14AM (#630130)

        Not being able to enforce the law does not make it legal.

        Non US citizen financing advert meant to be seen by US citizens in the US....is still illegal in my understanding (but I am not a lawyer etc....)

        Now the question:

        What would happen if it were porn advertisement...why don't we see porn advert, in our browsers which cannot be stopped at borders, in the US hosted from an oil platform say ?

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday January 30 2018, @03:00AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday January 30 2018, @03:00AM (#630155) Journal

          Not being able to enforce the law does not make it legal.

          I don't see it that way. I see it as making the activity in question quite legal.