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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday January 31 2018, @05:14PM   Printer-friendly
from the doesn't-raid-fix-this? dept.

Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

In 2015, Microsoft senior engineer Dan Luu forecast a bountiful harvest of chip bugs in the years ahead.

"We've seen at least two serious bugs in Intel CPUs in the last quarter, and it's almost certain there are more bugs lurking," he wrote. "There was a time when a CPU family might only have one bug per year, with serious bugs happening once every few years, or even once a decade, but we've moved past that."

Thanks to growing chip complexity, compounded by hardware virtualization, and reduced design validation efforts, Luu argued, the incidence of hardware problems could be expected to increase.

This month's Meltdown and Spectre security flaws that affect chip designs from AMD, Arm, and Intel to varying degrees support that claim. But there are many other examples.


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 4, Informative) by MrGuy on Wednesday January 31 2018, @06:21PM (2 children)

    by MrGuy (1007) on Wednesday January 31 2018, @06:21PM (#631068)

    Citation needed.

    First of all, Spectre and Meltdown are different. You can read details here [meltdownattack.com]

    Spectre is a flaw where "speculative execution" can leak information (this is where a processor executes a branch of code that MIGHT be needed, but only in theory stores the result if it matters). The problem with speculative execution is that it's not checked whether a given command SHOULD be executed (for example, if the program has the right access level to execute the code). However, this security issue wasn't seen as a problem, because (in theory) the result of the speculatively executed code would be thrown away if it couldn't be used. So, it might be a mechanism to let untrusted code access core kernel memory (which is Very Bad), but it was thought to be acceptable because nobody could see the result. The problem is that CPU caching could "leak" those results and be visible to other code.

    Spectre affects pretty much ALL manufacturers chips - the official paper [spectreattack.com] explicitly references Intel, AMD, and ARM architectures as being affected.

    Meltdown is different - it's a "sideband" attack on kernel memory that relies on using the side effects of certain legal, carefully crafted code and information about the location and layout of memory to "leak" information, including kernel memory. Meltdown does not require the use of speculative execution to leak memory.

    The proof of concept attack for Meltdown detailed officially [meltdownattack.com] only works against Intel hardware, but the paper specifically cautions that there's no reason to expect that AMD wouldn't be suseptible to a similar attack.

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  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @07:05PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @07:05PM (#631102)

    All people really care about is meltdown since patching for spectre seems to have minimal impact on performance. It is to the point where meltdown mitigations are being needlessly enabled for amd processors just to not make intel look so bad[1]. AMD says:

    GPZ Variant 3 (Rogue Data Cache Load or Meltdown) is not applicable to AMD processors.

    https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution [amd.com]

    I had no preference either way until I investigated this topic and saw what looks like a massive shady pro-intel propaganda campaign.

    [1] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-retpoline-benchmarks&num=1 [phoronix.com]

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @09:12PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 31 2018, @09:12PM (#631179)

    No, Meltdown is not applicable to AMD processors. AMD has already stated they do bounds checking when userland asks to read kernel memory to prevent this sort of thing. Something Intel inexplicably didn't think of or totally screwed up.

    Also, there is a "near zero" chance that Spectre variant 2 can be exploited on AMD processors. It sounds like both AMD and Intel are equally impacted regarding variant 1. Spectre is far more difficult to take advantage of in general.

    So yes, this is primarily an Intel problem.