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posted by Fnord666 on Monday February 05 2018, @11:39AM   Printer-friendly
from the give-me-network-choices dept.

Ars Technica is reporting on San Francisco's initial steps to create a citywide fiber-to-the-premise (FTTP) open-access network where ISPs compete for customers.

According to Ars Technica:

San Francisco is trying to find network providers to build a city-wide, gigabit fiber Internet service with mandated net neutrality and consumer privacy protections. It would be an open-access network, allowing multiple ISPs to offer service over the same lines and compete for customers.

The city yesterday issued a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) to find companies that are qualified "to design, build, finance, operate, and maintain a ubiquitous broadband FTTP [fiber-to-the-premises] network that permits retail service providers to lease capacity on the network." The project would also involve a free Wi-Fi service for city parks, city buildings, major thoroughfares, and visitor areas. Low-income residents would qualify for subsidies that make home Internet service more affordable.

ISPs offering service over the network would not be allowed to block or throttle lawful Internet traffic or engage in paid prioritization. ISPs would also need customers' opt-in consent "prior to collecting, using, disclosing, or permitting access to customer personal information or information about a customer's use of the network."

Could this be the first major US metropolitan area to create a real free market in broadband Internet? Do any Soylentils have similar municipal networks?


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 05 2018, @04:02PM (31 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday February 05 2018, @04:02PM (#633308) Journal

    There is this thing, I'll say it slowly, called reg-u-la-tor-y cap-ture, and this other thing called lob-by-ing (legalized bribery) that make the market solution a guaranteed nonstarter. Also read what Adams said about natural monopolies, PLEASE.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
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  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 05 2018, @04:30PM (27 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 05 2018, @04:30PM (#633317) Homepage Journal

    Darlin, you're not saying anything I don't already know. I'm a capitalist. Capitalists believe in competition. Anything that harms or prevents competition over the long term is not my friend.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 05 2018, @08:42PM (13 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday February 05 2018, @08:42PM (#633416) Journal

      So you're here and now disavowing a good 80% or 90% of your previously-expressed social policies? :) Nope, didn't think so. You wouldn't know a free market if it bit you in your foul feathery ass.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 05 2018, @09:11PM (12 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 05 2018, @09:11PM (#633438) Homepage Journal

        You're really reaching there. Social policies have little to nothing to do with policy regarding monopolies and competition.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:17PM (4 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:17PM (#633446)

          Incorrect, you just lack the ability to go beyond 1 layer deep on any given topic.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 05 2018, @09:33PM (3 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 05 2018, @09:33PM (#633458) Homepage Journal

            You mean the ability through rhetorical gymnastics to say that something is what it is not? Yes, I lack that. Proudly.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:47PM (2 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:47PM (#633468)

              Redefinition, another favorite tactic of your ilk.

              What next? I know you are but what am I?

              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 05 2018, @10:13PM (1 child)

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 05 2018, @10:13PM (#633483) Homepage Journal

                I was going to go with "I'm rubber, you're glue..." but I do take requests.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:41PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:41PM (#633933)

                  I would like to see your rendition of "The TIde Pod Challenge!"

                  I will forever be in your debt if you do...

        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 05 2018, @10:44PM (6 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday February 05 2018, @10:44PM (#633497) Journal

          On the contrary, Uzzard, your social policy is the level below these and from which these spring.

          You are suffering from (or, more accurately, making the rest of us suffer from...) a priority-inversion bug. Commerce is not our highest purpose. We, the human race, do not exist simply for monetary or mercantile reasons. When you get this inversion properly taken care of, your fiscal policy will change on its own.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 05 2018, @10:58PM (5 children)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 05 2018, @10:58PM (#633512) Homepage Journal

            You really can't handle it when we agree on something, can you? Totally fucks up your world view and makes your mind race to figure out how that can't possibly be right.

            Also, if you think material wealth is even close to my highest priority, you haven't listened to a word I've said the entire time you've been here. Here, I'll give you the Readers' Digest version: wealth < happiness < life < liberty.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:32AM (4 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:32AM (#633664) Journal

              Again, you have that all out of order. "Happiness" shouldn't be in that list, because the other three things are your (perceived...) ranking of what *makes* you happy.

              Which also, in the order you posted them, has the odd consequence that being dead and liberated (?) makes you happier than being alive and, er, not-liberated? Explain that one, please? You don't strike me as someone who puts any stock in the idea of your existence continuing after the death of your physical shell.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:52AM (3 children)

                by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:52AM (#633729) Homepage Journal

                "Happiness" shouldn't be in that list, because the other three things are your (perceived...) ranking of what *makes* you happy.

                No, they're not. Important is not the same as enjoyable.

                As for the latter, you're not reading well or something. Google up Patrick Henry.

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @12:35PM (2 children)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @12:35PM (#633768)

                  You're boring, same old crappy arguments, same old blindspots.

                  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @12:54PM (1 child)

                    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @12:54PM (#633780) Homepage Journal

                    Weaksauce. Troll harder.

                    --
                    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:26PM

                      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:26PM (#633921) Journal

                      I don't think AC was trolling, just stating the facts. Really, your entire worldview comes down to "Got mine, fuck you," with some, as you put it, "weaksauce" attempts to bolster it through saying you "earned" everything you have. Sure ya did, buddy. You popped out of the womb with a full time job and all.

                      God, you are tiresome and boring. Get some new arguments, will you? It's like watching a dog on a short chain running circles around the post and yapping to itself...

                      --
                      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:05PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:05PM (#633431)

      Holy crap, way to be clueless. Capitalists don't believe in competition, that is just lip service that is supposed to hand wave away all the problems. "Competition drives efficiency! Better for everyone!!"

      In general the theory holds, but it falls apart when humans get involved. Not to mention there are times when competition might hurt both parties, imagine two small grocery shops that compete and cause each other so much financial drain that one closes and the other takes a long time to recover or drastically increases prices to get back in the black.

      Or how about the Walmarts of the world? Is 10-20% price discounts worth losing your local economy? What about the local people who now earn poverty wages and increase the drain on welfare services?

      You are an arrogant fool, you skipped schooling and went straight to the trades, and your mild success makes you think you're the expert on everything. It is sad yet infuriating since it is people like you dragging this country to hell trying to fight commies/liberals/socialists/(lol)fascists. You can't even keep your terms straight.

      • (Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 05 2018, @09:17PM (1 child)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 05 2018, @09:17PM (#633447) Homepage Journal

        Holy crap, way to be clueless. Capitalists don't believe in competition...

        Exactly what I'd expect a product of our higher education system to parrot. People are actually coming of "institutions of learning" profoundly stupider than they went in nowadays. Do at least try and have a thought that violates your amalgamation of socialist/communist/fascist brainwashing once in a while. It'll only hurt for a moment, I promise.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:32PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 05 2018, @09:32PM (#633457)

          Projection 101 with Professor Buzzard.

          "Hey, where's the class?"

    • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @12:19AM (4 children)

      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 06 2018, @12:19AM (#633556) Journal

      I'm a capitalist. Capitalists believe in competition. Anything that harms or prevents competition over the long term is not my friend.

      Suuuree thing. Repeat it to reinforce your self-conditioning, you have a self-image to protect.

      More likely you're: "I love competition but I hate the competitors. Especially when they win. Because them winning means that I'm wrong, and this cannot be, because I'm always right"

      (large grin)

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:21AM (3 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:21AM (#633589) Homepage Journal

        Nah, failure is the best teacher. Which makes me wonder why we're letting people who know and understand fuck-all pass in our schools. Nevermind. Forgot for a moment that schools are about indoctrination rather than education nowadays.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:31AM (2 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:31AM (#633593) Journal

          Nah, failure is the best teacher.

          I might remind you of this one whenever you show signs of indoctrination instead of learning from your failures.

          (large grin)

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:03AM (1 child)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:03AM (#633623) Homepage Journal

            I don't need reminding but you're welcome to it. Why do you think I argue so much about things that matter to me? The smartest people I know either fail to provide a convincing argument to the contrary, in which case I'm further assured that I'm correct, or they succeed and I get to be correct instead of just thinking I am.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:19AM

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:19AM (#633628) Journal

              I don't need reminding but you're welcome to it.

              Thanks for the permission.
              I realize didn't actually need it (could always rely on it as a consequence to freedom of speech), but being specifically offered is appreciated.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:33AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:33AM (#633594)

      Darlin, you're not saying anything I don't already know. I'm a capitalist. Capitalists believe in competition. Anything that harms or prevents competition over the long term is not my friend.

      And this is why anything you post in that area isn't worth reading. You start with a mindset that a single philosophy is always correct and then go through contortions to make reality fit that philosophy.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:06AM (3 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:06AM (#633624) Homepage Journal

        A single philosophy based on individual liberty is always correct. Anything else is just making excuses for your own moral failures.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:12AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:12AM (#633658)

          Too bad capitalism is orthogonal to individual liberty.

          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:05AM (1 child)

            by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:05AM (#633733) Homepage Journal

            See, this is why the Tide Pod Challenge doesn't bother me. Anyone stupid enough to eat one absolutely should.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:39PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:39PM (#633975)

              Ah yes, those toddlers should be removed from the gene pool!! We should also put cartoon characters back into smoking commercials. Genius!! I mean what business does the government have restricting a businesses advertisements? Of course those sissies have to use men with guns to get their way, I can't stand this oppression anymore!

  • (Score: 2) by frojack on Monday February 05 2018, @09:00PM (2 children)

    by frojack (1554) on Monday February 05 2018, @09:00PM (#633427) Journal

    Also read what Adams said about natural monopolies,

    At best, a one-fiber-to-serve-all is an attempt to use a area wide non-natural government monopoly to tear down the previously granted monopolies. An attempt to turn broadband into something like roads.

    Most areas of the US have ONE Cable/Internet provider and MAYBE access to a poor distant second-best-solution. Whoever built the subdivision gains all the customers. Who ever first plumbed all the right of ways with a cable plant doesn't have to worry about competition, because nobody else can put in a cable plant without vastly greater costs. The last mile has no real competition.

    With a local municipality owned last mile the hope (or at least the story) is to introduce competition to that last mile.

    But with the city setting access fees, and rules, there will always be a price floor. And government regulation, spying and censorship, speed restrictions.

    Broadband does not need to be a natural monopoly. (Cellular broadband isn't).
    Its only historical cost expediencies that allowed terrestrial broadband to become monopolies.

    --
    No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 05 2018, @10:46PM (1 child)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday February 05 2018, @10:46PM (#633499) Journal

      I don't buy this, sorry. Literally every single other service of its kind--water, electricity, roads--is a natural monopoly. The analogies to water delivery, for example, are so readily obvious that we even have terms like "pipe" used to describe internet connectivity.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 05 2018, @11:07PM

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Monday February 05 2018, @11:07PM (#633517) Homepage Journal

        Agreed. Unless private citizens start being allowed to dig under roads and across their neighbors' yards, there's not a viable option for the last mile to be anything except a monopoly. As such, it needs to be regulated in such a way as to produce the most competition rather than the least. It's best for the consumer, it's best for society, and it's even best for those competing.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.