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posted by martyb on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:06AM   Printer-friendly
from the more-money-than-sense dept.

The NYT reports that a loosely knit group of crypto-currency multi-million/billionaires have chosen Puerto Rico to set up shop -- several reasons are given including a tax haven for US citizens and low real estate prices since the hurricane Maria destruction last year. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/technology/cryptocurrency-puerto-rico.html

Dozens of entrepreneurs, made newly wealthy by blockchain and cryptocurrencies, are heading en masse to Puerto Rico this winter. They are selling their homes and cars in California and establishing residency on the Caribbean island in hopes of avoiding what they see as onerous state and federal taxes on their growing fortunes, some of which now reach into the billions of dollars.

And these men — because they are almost exclusively men — have a plan for what to do with the wealth: They want to build a crypto utopia, a new city where the money is virtual and the contracts are all public, to show the rest of the world what a crypto future could look like. Blockchain, a digital ledger that forms the basis of virtual currencies, has the potential to reinvent society — and the Puertopians want to prove it.

For more than a year, the entrepreneurs had been searching for the best location. After Hurricane Maria decimated Puerto Rico's infrastructure in September and the price of cryptocurrencies began to soar, they saw an opportunity and felt a sense of urgency.

[...] The movement is alarming an earlier generation of Puerto Rico tax expats like the hedge fund manager Robb Rill, who runs a social group for those taking advantage of the tax incentives.

"They call me up saying they're going to buy 250,000 acres so they can incorporate their own city, literally start a city in Puerto Rico to have their own crypto world," said Mr. Rill, who moved to the island in 2013. "I can't engage in that."
 

I suggest that the SN posters who write, "everything should be organized by contracts, not government" please buy a one-way ticket to PR now! And then see if you can actually make it work. [With limited electricity and thus limited internet, they may not pester the rest of us so often.]


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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:22PM (10 children)

    by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:22PM (#633821) Journal

    What's good or bad for pay for a job is entirely determined by cost of living

    Cost of living yes. Note that just because a place has been hit by a hurricane, it doesn't mean the cost of living there will be low.

    and what others doing the same job in the same area are making.

    Not necessarily. In a market where there is an oversupply of labour and little in the way of economic mobility (like, say a disaster zone) then there is nothing to drive pay up and everybody will be stuck on the same crappy wages.

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  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:44PM (9 children)

    by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @02:44PM (#633833) Homepage Journal

    ...just because a place has been hit by a hurricane, it doesn't mean the cost of living there will be low.

    No, cost of living already being quite low there is what would mean that. The hurricane will actually temporarily increase short-term cost of living for a lot of folks.

    In a market where there is an oversupply of labour and little in the way of economic mobility (like, say a disaster zone) then there is nothing to drive pay up and everybody will be stuck on the same crappy wages.

    Have you ever lived in a disaster zone? I'm going to assume not since you just spouted that nonsense. Here's what actually happens: anyone with the tools and the skills to (re)build things is going to make a fuckload of money. Anyone with only the skills will make almost as much. Anyone willing to quickly acquire the skills is going to make significantly better money than most. It's straight out of the Keynesian playbook but with an actual need being filled.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
    • (Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:05PM (7 children)

      by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:05PM (#633848) Journal

      anyone with the tools and the skills to (re)build things is going to make a fuckload of money. Anyone with only the skills will make almost as much. Anyone willing to quickly acquire the skills is going to make significantly better money than most.

      OK, I'll grant you that. Congratulations for answering your own question. Now how about addressing the point you so cunningly diverted us from about four posts ago?

      Once the billionaires have their shiny mansions by the beach, and the industrious local carpenters & bricklayers & plumbers have made their fuckloads of money, let's talk about the cleaners and gardeners and servants and so on? Presumably these will be drawn from the local population. Will they be living within the blessed Atlas-Zone, or will they be bussed in every day from the slums ten miles down the road where different laws apply? Are the wonderful principles of no-tax-no-gov-contracts-for-everything going to be fairly applied to those people, who have no negotiating power whatsoever compared with their ultra-wealthy neighbours? When they get sick of being played off against one another for lower and lower pay and band together to bargain collectively, will the billionaires use their glorious freedoms to have their private security forces bust some skulls?

      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:20PM (6 children)

        by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:20PM (#633859) Homepage Journal

        Now how about addressing the point you so cunningly diverted us from about four posts ago?

        That wasn't a diversion, that was a tangent. I addressed the only bit that made enough sense to warrant a response. Since you seem to want a response to your nonsense though...

        What the local government does or does not do in regards to its citizens is up to the local government. The guys moving there have nothing to do with that since they did not vote any of them in. You want to point a finger? Point it at the people for putting up with corruption in their elected officials.

        What the guys moving there do is not going to be what you think. If they want quality help, they're going to have to pay for it like anyone else. Having a gerzillion dollars does not mean you can pay someone less than what they could get by going down the street. It generally means the opposite.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by GreatAuntAnesthesia on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:31PM (5 children)

          by GreatAuntAnesthesia (3275) on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:31PM (#633869) Journal

          Who said anything about local government or elected officials? As I understand it, within their own city borders, these billionaires effectively WILL be the local government.

          • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:42PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:42PM (#633876)

            I see you're learning what its like to discuss anything with tmb. He is always right, your points are stupid and irrelevant, and the whole exercise is pointless.

          • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by jmorris on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:30PM (3 children)

            by jmorris (4844) on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:30PM (#633924)

            Good luck with that. PR is a one party Democratic shithole. If anyone thinks any deal with the territorial government is going to be binding after the concrete sets up they are utopians who will learn a practical lesson soon enough. The local government will welcome them with open arms, help them build a bunch of fresh new infrastructure and then seize it and as much of the new inhabitants wealth as they possibly can. You can use PR as a tax haven only if you are more than just new rich, you need to be jacked into the political system in a way a bunch of Libertarian spergs aren't.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:12PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @06:12PM (#633991)

              phase two of puertopia: exterminate local gov officials.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:00PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @10:00PM (#634123)

              Wooow, some insane speculation going on there pal. There is more than one party and the country wasn't a shithole. Probably a bit of one now, but I think it is excusable. PR is a territory and I'm pretty sure just seizing people's assets would open them up to lawsuits and other troubles.

              While I can't say for 100% certain, your "local government will welcome them with open arms, help them build a bunch of fresh new infrastructure and then seize it and as much of the new inhabitants wealth as they possibly can" is pure craziness without some type of supporting evidence.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:59PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:59PM (#634200)

              > You can use PR as a tax haven only if you are more than just new rich, ...

              This is the sort of prediction that I would love to be reminded of--in a few years to see how it worked out. While I personally think the outcome will be better than jmorris does, most likely I'll just forget about the whole story. And the NY Times author will probably forget about it too, unless something else newsworthy happens with these blockchain utopians.

              Perhaps a "tickler" file add-in for SN could be set up so that logged-in users could mark an article for a reminder and get an email or something after the specified time has lapsed. The email could be a very simple form -- "UserName requested to be reminded of this SN post/story (linky) today. The story was originally posted on (date), and your requested (time) has now passed.

              "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" (or words to that effect).

    • (Score: 2) by dry on Wednesday February 07 2018, @05:55AM

      by dry (223) on Wednesday February 07 2018, @05:55AM (#634314) Journal

      That's only true if the disaster happens somewhere with access to money (insurance, credit, cash, government assistance). Places like Haiti, not so much.