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Back in December, we reported on the Trump administration's proposed changes to tip-pooling regulations that would allow employers to pocket servers' tips as long as the employees continue to make minimum wage. That's right: Employers could take servers' tips and just dole out the minimum wage. But wait, it gets worse!
Turns out, the Department Of Labor knew how crappy this would make life for restaurant employees. This Bloomberg Law article, citing sources within the agency, reveals that the Department Of Labor knowingly buried its own data that showed restaurant workers would lose billions of dollars in gratuities under the new proposal.
Source: https://thetakeout.com/proposed-tip-pooling-law-is-so-bad-for-workers-the-gove-1822664111
(Score: 5, Insightful) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @03:30PM (14 children)
(ah, I almost missed it. And it's juicy, yum)
Letting aside the "they have may sympathy", why should be this my problem as a customer/patron?
It's not like I should act communistic towards the waiters and share my money with them because they need it, only to let the owner of the restaurant to go capitalistic on their ass and pay them the minimum possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 5, Insightful) by sjames on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:04PM (4 children)
If I give a tip, it is because I believe the waitstaff served me well. It is between me and them. If the owner pockets it, it is theft as far as I'm concerned.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @04:32PM (1 child)
(yeah, naaah, mate! I do agree with your point, but I deliberately put it this way to emphasize the cognitive dissonance in TMB's argumentation. I know well his battle cry of "Socialism is theft" and yet in this instance he shows quite a decent understanding of waiter's positions, to the point of sacrificing the interest of him as a customer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @05:23PM
Because wait staff are so ubiquitous that even he understands the situation. I'm waiting for his mental gymnastics routine where he defines everything in such a way that he doesn't need to budge his world view. Ironically such feats of delusion are what he accuses of anyone who went to college.
Damn ivory towers with no bearing on the real world!!! /s
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @04:16AM (1 child)
Which is why I am now in the habit of leaving my tips in cash. If the waitstaff want to share their tip with the owner, that is entirely up to them. If, on the other hand, they would rather not, I'm completely OK with that. Considering that Uncle Sam has put them in this rather awkward position, I'm OK with them not letting the government know about it either. That is between them and their conscience.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @06:23AM
The wait staff are not my employees. Tips are not "earned" in that sense of the word.
Tips are reciprocal gifts for exceeding minimal performance. Might as well tax Christmas gifts too.
A wait staff cheated of their tips will likely not present their employer in a very good light.
I am quite sure the wait staff view confiscation of tips about like a businessman sees employees walking out with silverware and dishes to sell at the swap meet.
I am not part of a wait staff, but it even pisses ME off to see wait staff taxed on TIPS.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by melikamp on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:16PM (8 children)
It won't be. TMB really got himself into a jam on this one, he does not seem to know fuck-nothing about the restaurant industry, or else talking out of his ass on purpose.
His statement appears to ring true because in the current socio-economic environment in USA, within the service industry specifically, most wait staff and other tip junkies would lose money if they tried to advance their career in a way that removes the tips from the table. For example, a lot of them resist being made a manager, because a restaurant manager is often paid less at the end of the day than an experienced server raking up the tips. A lot of them also get the gambler's excitement from an occasional show-biz tip, and look down on positions without the roulette wheel.
But considered more carefully, TMB's opinion is horseshit. One can google [this puppy is ready for genericide] tipless restaurants and see that there's a wave, as of late, especially on the east coast, to go tipless, and the crest of this wave is at the high end, where most stellar servers actually know what they want. My wife spent most of her life in the industry, working almost every position from waitress to manager to event planner, ending her waiting career at Hungry Mother in Cambridge, where Celtics routinely brought their dates. So both statistically and anecdotally, most people can figure out that even here in USA, many (not all) excellent servers absolutely loath tips. Hungry Mother wasn't tipless, but they pooled everything, which most servers consider a blessing in a successful restaurant, because, SURPRISE! servers don't like to grovel, they don't like to be humiliated, they don't like it when some duchebag dangles a $40 tip before their nose, expecting them to flirt, or when 3 trophy hags drink $600 worth of sparkles over 4 hours and leave ZERO tip, and they POSITIVELY HATE to plan their finances without ever knowing how much money they will make.
But then, TMB is not like most people, he's got his own information sources and ways to arrive to conclusions :)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 06 2018, @07:29PM (7 children)
I've often thought that TMB shows bad logic but sometimes took into account that we may just not see eye to eye.
His logic is clearly selfish in nature. He remembers his time as a tip earner and could hardly give a fuck about customer service.
The level of service that I get ordering a cup of ramen with no tip in japan is equal to the level of service that I would get at a top restaurant or hotel in the USA. Furthermore I dislike tip chasing staff, when you talk to me like a gameshow host, flirt with me, and laugh hysterically at every fucking thing I say. Yeah only EVER experienced that in tipping countries. Not to mention that flirty hosts foster an environment where customers feel entitled to sexually harass the help.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday February 06 2018, @08:12PM (5 children)
Say... what? Is this indeed what's expected from the "successful tip receiver" waiting staff in US?
Good God, thanks for not being subjected to such a treatment; irrespective of my order status, I'd leave the place like a rocket after the first 3 minutes. I can't stand pushy waiters interrupting me every 3 minutes to ask if I'm alright or... stuff.
You wait for me to signal you that I need your services and, if you want a tip, I'll have your attention in a very short time; a nod as "I saw you, coming ASAP" will buy you 1-2 minutes of my patience when you are engaged in some other things, but certainly not 1-2 minutes flirting with another customer.
Even the minor matter of having my glass refilled, I like my wine glass stay emptied until I'm feeling like having another one; and then I'm perfectly capable of filling it myself, as much as I think is necessary and when I think is time. If you, the waiter, insist filling it immediately after I emptied it, I'll start to think you just can't wait to see me done and be gone; guess how much I'll be willing to tip you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Tuesday February 06 2018, @08:44PM (2 children)
Not in my experience.
What I expect is a friendly person who smiles at me and makes me feel welcome to eat at that place. Unlike your experience, I do expect wait staff to check in with me anytime my glass is empty - I expect them to be observant and ask me if I want a refill or not. If I say no I expect them to remember that choice. I expect wait staff to check if I need anything about five minutes after food delivery (was there a condiment I needed), and anytime I try to catch their eye - which with good staff does not happen because they've already anticipated my need. I'll put down extra money if they check in after I've placed my order and before food delivery or after post-delivery check and pre-final visit before check.
I don't expect, nor want, conversation, flirtation, or anything other than a respectful attitude, pleasant demeanor, and awareness of my needs as a customer before I have to ask. I ate at Bubba Gump Shrimp Company at Navy Pier and at some point (don't remember when,) the waitress came over and played Forrest Gump trivia with us - it was interesting, but not really expected and did keep me from visiting with those I was dining with. But it was also clearly something the management expected staff to do, I believe.
Conversely, anyone who acted the way you've described without my saying so (doesn't check in unless I ask) would have a diminished tip. I can count the number of times I haven't tipped in the last ten years on one hand - I think it is three out of
This sig for rent.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by melikamp on Tuesday February 06 2018, @11:38PM (1 child)
You people, c0lo & #6553, you are both right! Every patron has slightly different expectations about table servce, and the job of a competent server is to fulfil those expectations without sacrificing the overall quality of service for everyone else. When I took an issue with TMB's little fart-rant, it was the specific suggestion that a competent waiter won't go tipless because of a pay cut. On the contrary, competent waiters are fighting tooth-and-nail, as we type here, over some of the most desired positions in tipless restaurants in New York and elsewhere, and I am sure that at least some of them do take this pay cut with a sigh of relief.
Because you see, people, servers also have expectations (a novel idea for USA, but here we go). A competent high-end server, in particular, is a professional with 10+ years of experience in mind-reading and meeting your every food-related need, all while working on 100 other mini-projects around the floor. Servers like that take pride in their work, and they expect to be paid for their time, period, because they do a fucking great job day in and day out. If you don't like their personal style, or find that the experience is overpriced, you are free to go to a different restaurant, mmmok? So when you do come to their restaurant, they expect you to be polite, and they expect you to be buying food, booze, and table service, the end. They do not expect to be harrased, sexually or otherwise; they do not expect their pay to be held hostage over some random fantasy, or be conditioned by your mood. They are trying to serve you well, regardless of how much or little you expect, or how great or shitty you may feel that day, and they expect to be paid.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 07 2018, @11:18AM
This.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday February 07 2018, @01:40AM
Depends on the class or classlessness of the establishment. A so-called "Gentlmen's club" can be expected to float at this position - right at the top of the septic tank. More generally, no. The average diner expects good wait service, maybe a smile, a little chatting possibly. The flirty waitress doesn't last very long at a nicer restaurant, really. Hooter's would be about as high as the flirts are going to feel comfortable, for any length of time. From there, they might move on to a dive (low class bar) or a strip club.
We have some of everything. You can find the worst of the worst, in any state. And, you can find real professional wait staff in any state. It all depends on what you're looking for.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by canopic jug on Wednesday February 07 2018, @09:29AM
You wait for me to signal you that I need your services and, if you want a tip, I'll have your attention in a very short time; a nod as "I saw you, coming ASAP" will buy you 1-2 minutes of my patience when you are engaged in some other things, but certainly not 1-2 minutes flirting with another customer.
We stopped visiting one pub for a while until the American waitress went away. Unlike the local wait staff she was chatty but said nothing. Unlike the local wait staff she was never around when something was needed. However, when there was clearly no need for anything, she was constantly hovering around asking how service was. Lastly, she did not fill up the beers completely. Also, the local staff were well trained professionals, having gone to vocational school. I gather in the US it is make-it-up-as-you-go-along that is the standard.
Like many things over there, the food service industry in the US is in dire need of a rebuild. Paying proper wages, including benefits, to all staff is part of that. I don't see why as a restaurant patron I should be subsidizing the owner's dodgy practices and general stinginess. The whole thing about tipping for better service is bullshit anyway when most servers make up their mind about you before even coming to the table, creating a self-reinforcing prophesy regarding the good or bad tip they eventually get. Yes, you can game that. I have. I'd rather not, though. I'd rather just come in with my group and get the service we pay for. or just not come back next time.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Wednesday February 07 2018, @03:37PM
I have never experienced that, maybe you are just a Chad. Anymore waiters seem so terrible that I will give 10% if someone actually continues to fill up my water glass.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam