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posted by martyb on Friday February 09 2018, @12:31PM   Printer-friendly
from the Where-is-Waldo-county?-dept. dept.

Small town Republican thoughts on refuting the alt-right. In The Republican Journal:

I want to make one thing very clear: The Waldo County Republican Committee absolutely, unequivocally condemns Nazi and KKK ideologies and actions, as well as any other kind of bigotry, and we encourage all of our voters and the community at large to do the same.

For fellow Republicans out there, worry not, we don't like Antifa's ideology and actions either, but we need to clean our own house; we need to worry about our own responsibilities.

Such honesty, and clarity of thought!

The most dangerous part of politics today is identity politics, trolling, pathos and a severe lack of critical thinking. You cannot defeat the insidious hatred of bigoted politics with more hate. By doing so, you morph the conversation away from policy and ideology to silly label syntax, eventually devolving completely into back and forth verbal gymnastics. Make no mistake, these trolls are ready for you as you stoop to their level, and they beat you up with mountains of experience.

So what do we do? Very simple. Stay neighborly by controlling your reaction. Seek out those with whom you disagree, try to understand them first, and politely offer your counter argument.

And it looks like the Republicans in Maine, if not in Illinois, are rejecting the alt-right.

The way to defeat Mr. Kawczynski is not by attacking him, but by attacking his ideas. Here are some flaws in his thinking: His immigration ideas are antithetical to the Maine Republican party platform, a section of which states, "We support the assimilation of legal immigrants into Maine society."

Kawczynski's ideas stand in contrast to Maine history and culture; in fact, it is white folks with racist ideologies who pose the greatest threat to Maine's foundation, not other races of people.

Another brilliant tidbit:

Ultimately, all you have to do is walk outside with your eyes open in this state to see that Kawczynski's fearmongering about "white genocide" is completely laughable.

Entire guest column is well worth a read.


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  • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Friday February 09 2018, @05:08PM (24 children)

    by Gaaark (41) on Friday February 09 2018, @05:08PM (#635568) Journal

    SOME people seeing things a certain way....common sense creeping in....

    This is news?

    So, SOME people seeing things in a different way....SOME people NOT using common sense is also news.

    Spock says, "So yes, according to you, an everyday thing IS newsworthy. Fascinating!"

    JOURNAL ENTRY!

    --
    --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Karma-Bonus Modifier   +1  

    Total Score:   2  
  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Friday February 09 2018, @06:31PM (23 children)

    by aristarchus (2645) on Friday February 09 2018, @06:31PM (#635636) Journal

    Gaaaaark, stuff like this really doesn't belong in the comments. Perhaps you could write in your journal about how all aristarchus submissions belong in a journal, m'kay?

    • (Score: 2) by insanumingenium on Friday February 09 2018, @06:42PM (7 children)

      by insanumingenium (4824) on Friday February 09 2018, @06:42PM (#635641) Journal

      I don't think I have ever seen a word you wrote that wasn't complaining that someone was picking on you, that is until you wrote the TFS, too bad you couldn't keep up that trend. I agree TFS falls short of the bar of being newsworthy.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by aristarchus on Friday February 09 2018, @06:53PM (6 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Friday February 09 2018, @06:53PM (#635649) Journal

        Poor, poor aristarchus! First that whole being forgotten about the heliocentric thing, and now everyone picking on him on SoylentNews. I shed tears of infinite sadness, not for myself, but for humanity.

        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 10 2018, @06:32AM (5 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday February 10 2018, @06:32AM (#635893) Journal

          Most of them aren't worth the tears. I've had a harder time of it than NotSanguine and am, well, not as sanguine as he(?) is about people. I just want to be left alone, but it seems the way history is going, all of us with a speck of good left in us are going to be forced to fight.

          So be it. People wonder why I'm such a persistent gadfly against the site's resident sociopaths, alt-liters, alt-righters, and actual goddamn Nazis? This is why. It's because it's one of the few ways I can fight, with what few resources I have.

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday February 10 2018, @07:16AM (2 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday February 10 2018, @07:16AM (#635916) Journal

            c'mon, Hazuki-kun, you know that just wanting to be "left alone" is a libertarian fantasy. The point is, that as a race (humans, does not include "whities", who are a type of underwear, when they are tight) we are in fact dependent upon each other. And this is why a wrong done to one, is a wrong done to all. So, if someone discriminates on skin color, none of our skin colors are safe. Oh, I can here it now, the "Whitenesses" are getting their panties all in a bunch about how they are not allowed to be proud of being "White"! Well suck it, dudes, and yes, they are all dudes. I have submitted many submission that explored the connections between the alt-right and less than manly men that make up the Men's Rights A . . I forget what the "A" stands for, "assholes"? But still it is there. Because there is no such thing as "White". If I am "white" as a Greek, I will never agree with you, the Turk, who, you know, is also white, at least as compared to those hook-nosed semites, the Arabs. Whiteness is not a thing, it is only at thing developed against some other thing, like blackness, or Redness (Hi, TMB!), or Yellow Peril-ism.

            NotSanguine has been doing an exemplary job as a Soylentil lately! I cannot praise him too highly! And he, and you Azuma, give me and all rational persons on the planet, hope for the future. Nazis, well, sooner of later, you know, they got to shoot themselves in the mouth, like the the Hitler did. Sooner, or later.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday February 10 2018, @07:30AM (1 child)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday February 10 2018, @07:30AM (#635921) Journal

              Small quarrel, it'd be Azuma-kun (to a manager or professor), or if you happen to be my girlfriend, Hazuki-chan.

              I wish I had your optimism, but more and more, it seems to me the human race is doomed due to its own stupidity, solipsism, and selfishness. When they say those who forget history are condemned to repeat it, what they leave out is that those who DO remember it are condemned to be dragged kicking and screaming along, in the memorable words of a friend, like Hell's mosh pit as it all repeats.

              Honestly, I want to just lay down and sleep and never, ever wake up. But that's not realistic. I have my duty. I must fight.

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday February 10 2018, @08:18AM

                by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday February 10 2018, @08:18AM (#635934) Journal

                謝罪いたします! But you should know, that fighting from a sense of duty, is always better than fighting out of a sense of fear. And these alt-right types, you can feel their fear.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 10 2018, @11:55PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 10 2018, @11:55PM (#636175)

            You will become a right winger, yourself, soon. You are already sociopathic, you show alt-liter tendencies, and you could even be Nazi-fied, given time. Damned authoritarians - you're basically all alike.

            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday February 11 2018, @03:33AM

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday February 11 2018, @03:33AM (#636247) Journal

              Was this misaimed, or are you actually this delusional?

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday February 10 2018, @01:42AM

      by Gaaark (41) on Saturday February 10 2018, @01:42AM (#635833) Journal

      Write something decent and i'll comment decently, and probably surprise you with a mental 'high-five'!

      Continue to write crap and i'll comment about it.

      I call it as i see it. Crap is crap.

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
    • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday February 10 2018, @04:33AM (13 children)

      by Gaaark (41) on Saturday February 10 2018, @04:33AM (#635869) Journal

      Yuuup. More intelligence from Aristarchus. Can't submit with intelligence, can't comment with intelligence. What are you: 13 years old?

      "My dad could beat up YOUR dad."

      yeah.
      Man. up.

      --
      --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
      • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday February 10 2018, @06:35AM (12 children)

        by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday February 10 2018, @06:35AM (#635897) Journal

        Gaaaark, go back to Florida Disneyland. I think you left part of your soul there, and most of your intellect. My grandma could beat up your arguments in this instance.

        • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday February 10 2018, @07:32AM (11 children)

          by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 10 2018, @07:32AM (#635923) Journal

          magister, you are loosing the plot here.

          What plot, you ask? Well, note a thing or two from the Waldo County...

          The most dangerous part of politics today is identity politics, trolling, pathos and a severe lack of critical thinking. You cannot defeat the insidious hatred of bigoted politics with more hate. By doing so, you morph the conversation away from policy and ideology to silly label syntax, eventually devolving completely into back and forth verbal gymnastics. Make no mistake, these trolls are ready for you as you stoop to their level, and they beat you up with mountains of experience.

          So what do we do? Very simple. Stay neighborly by controlling your reaction. Seek out those with whom you disagree, try to understand them first, and politely offer your counter argument.

          Sound somehow reasonable? There was a person that submitted it to S/N as worthy of notice, does it happen to know him?
          If yo know him, maybe you'll ask if he picked this because he thought it was something right in there or was only meant as a vain "I-told-you-so victory dance"?

          --
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
          • (Score: 2) by aristarchus on Saturday February 10 2018, @08:13AM (10 children)

            by aristarchus (2645) on Saturday February 10 2018, @08:13AM (#635933) Journal

            As usual, c0lo, you are correct, which make you the magister, not me. But help me out: how does one offer a counter argument to a Gaaark? I already suggested that he put his objections in a journal, how much more helpful could I be? I begin to think it is a question of Branding. The ARISTARCHUS is already seen as the sworn enemy of, well, of those of very little political reasoning. Not that that is a bad thing. But still. How to get the Gaaark on the side of reason and justice? I am doing my best, inspite of the alt-right bias of the eds.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 10 2018, @10:02AM (4 children)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 10 2018, @10:02AM (#635954)

              Gotta agree with the old fart here. I mean he can't be much more substantial than a fart by now, even Yoda couldn't break 1k.

              I digress, at some point alt-righters figured out they could play on the liberal sensibility of tolerance and for a short time they thought they were making massive headway. They slipped a massive movement through this tolerant gateway and thought it was a failing of the liberal minded. They have now used up the tolerance and there is now very little compromise left to be had. Sometimes it is better to not take the high road and to yell right back in the face of bullies.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday February 10 2018, @12:44PM (2 children)

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 10 2018, @12:44PM (#635982) Journal

                I digress, at some point alt-righters figured out they could play on the liberal sensibility of tolerance and for a short time they thought they were making massive headway.

                That headway? Rhetoric, populism and lies, planted in the fertile soil of "my ignorance is as good as your education, teach the controversy" led into it.

                What to to? Apply common sense - those conservatives know "Stay neighborly by controlling your reaction. Seek out those with whom you disagree, try to understand them first, and politely offer your counter argument." It's a normal world, it used to be an everyday world before the spin-masters stepped into it and started to twist it into monstrous shapes to fit their interest. Can you fault them they want that world back?

                And what the "old fart" does? Plays the "No, you go to journal; no, you; no, you first" game. Right, wise reaction.

                What if the offer of counter-argument fails, you ask? Then, there's the other part of life that the "old fart" ignores - direct and shared experience. Not the words of philosophers of the old, no epistemology and metaphysics. Go live with them in their neighbourhood for 2 weeks and start something from the grass-roots.

                For instance, if you are such an "internet-connected-world wizard", start a funding campaign for some $15k-$20k, convince the locals to volunteer for 2 weekends and, together with them and your 79-sexes troupe of die-hard liberals in all colors of the rainbow, plug the holes in some 3-4 miles of potholed [wgme.com] roads [mainecampus.com] in Maine [cartalk.com] - the ones that hurt the local economy [pressherald.com] (start with the East Waldo road [blogspot.com] for instance?). No, you don't repair the road (gets you to millions/mile), you just plug the holes.

                What's gained from this? Shared experience, a road that won't damage their car for the next year, showing that action count more than hollow nazi slogans and empty local administration promises, empowers them to take the things that matter in their own hands.... shall I continue?

                For God sake, even the anarchists can have more common sense than a 2k "old fart"? [reason.com]
                Just what did you do with my fork, you dining philosopher?!?

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 10 2018, @04:33PM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 10 2018, @04:33PM (#636039)

                  I can't quite tell from your response there, but it seems like you took my "old fart" joke rather personally. I was just teasing your chosen identity and the number of times you say you're thousands of years old. Stop obsessing about your fork, just make sure you've got your towel.

                  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Saturday February 10 2018, @10:44PM

                    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 10 2018, @10:44PM (#636147) Journal

                    No, nothing like that. My relation with the magister doesn't allow me to use "old fart" in any other sense than a friendly appellation.

                    Yours,

                    c0lo

                    ---

                    about the way the philosophers use forks [wikipedia.org]

                    --
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 11 2018, @12:01AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 11 2018, @12:01AM (#636178)

                Dafuq did you even say? "slipped a massive movement" - a big shit? "through this tolerant gateway" - progressive faggots? "failing of the liberal minded" - well of course. "used up the tolerance" - progressives are butt-hurt? "little compromise to be had" - no more reacharounds? "not take the high road" - Huh? You who live in the gutters have lower and higher roads?

                Fucking progressives are more complex than we ever imagined! They have high roads!

            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by c0lo on Saturday February 10 2018, @10:14AM (4 children)

              by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 10 2018, @10:14AM (#635958) Journal

              But help me out: how does one offer a counter argument to a Gaaark? I already suggested that he put his objections in a journal, how much more helpful could I be?

              First steps: Stay neighborly by controlling your reaction... Seek out those with whom you disagree, try to understand them first [soylentnews.org] (read the whole thread, understanding doesn't come as a revelation, you dig for it)

              The ARISTARCHUS is already seen as the sworn enemy of, well, of those of very little political reasoning.

              I doubt this is the image you project [soylentnews.org].
              He may be wrong, of course, at least when comparing with your intentions.

              But what if there something in your style that detours the audience on this wrong path? Something under your control which, once corrected, can lead to less lost audience (and we aren't talking here about "Let-us-keep-in-mind"-khallow)?

              ---

              My opinions on your submissions in the queue, take them as another-non-Gaaark-perception-of-your-sunmission-effort:

              * An idiot is trolled by a wannabe Milo [soylentnews.org] - search for details about Matt Colligan and you'll see he's a nobody in the alt-right, he's evolution shows he'd do anything for fame, even if the fame is dubious in nature.

              * Some persons in alt-right are killers [soylentnews.org] - is badly missing context. Even the philosophers cast had moral lowlies [wikipedia.org].
              More killers that the usual? Less than the usual? Is it serious or the same chance of being killed by a lightning? Where's the story? Who you are debating against? Was it somebody who said both sides are guilty? Then you can use this in that context. As it is. it's only a floating-in-nowhere piece of something.

              * An aborted republican candidate, with alt-right habits threatens what-the-hell-is-that-acronym [soylentnews.org] - in terms of political impact, Paul Nehlen [wikipedia.org] is a nobody - 16% of the votes against Paul Ryan's 84%; even LePenn made more waves in France and I can't remember if we run stories about her.
              He's trying again, with another one in the race [opslens.com].
              Breitbart seems to have dumped him.
              Nobody here knows about him a bit (I wasted 15 minutes to uncover what's all about)... and you want to give him visibility because of what?
              He's suing ADL? It's not like ADL is sued for the first time, and not always they were kosher [latimes.com]

              ---

              I told you some times back to go for the relevant sources [soylentnews.org].
              I'm suggesting you now to:
              - choose relevant stories, those that can have impact somehow (yeah, right, who would have believed that one of many ruffles group like ISIS will cause so many "stories"). They need to be stories, not a-portait-of-a-lowly-nazi-under-a-fluorescent-lamp-as-seen-by-aristarchus. Abstain if there's no story.
              - contextualize the story, not from what you believe is true (the truth of whom, magister?), but with relation to reality ("Links. Do you speak them?"). Sorry to inflict this complicated world we live in, I can't keep it all in my mind; and nazis are a very small part of it, no matter how much you "love" them; don't blame me if I forget who-the-fuck-is-the-small-fry-Matt-Colligan

              Perhaps conducting a research of "who's who in the alt-right" will help you selecting what's important?
              In doing so, you may find some sources that "tell it straight as it is", without the interpretation of media? Not like them are so subtle and refined people.
              How's that homework for some journal-ing?

              (I hope you don't think a crusade is something you can conduct in your spare time. Know thy enemy and all that)

              I am doing my best, inspite of the alt-right bias of the eds.

              That bias... it isn't actually that big.

              --
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
              • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Saturday February 10 2018, @11:24AM (3 children)

                by Gaaark (41) on Saturday February 10 2018, @11:24AM (#635971) Journal

                See... he's not very good, is he. At writing OR trolling. He doesn't know how to get his own point across.

                Someone else said he's acting....if so, he's the Justin Bieber of acting: he just sucks.

                He just goes: alt-right, rejection, waaaah. Then when someone calls him on his sucking he says:
                https://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?noupdate=1&sid=23996&page=1&cid=635897#commentwrap [soylentnews.org]

                Yeah...he's a smart one. He's got the intellect of a 13 year old.

                Hey, sorry. I'll stop now. YOU I can have a conversation with, because you have intellect; Ari, though, has none and I don't want to talk about him anymore.
                Hope to keep seeing you around, c0lo. It was fun. Have a nice day (I, though, gotta work, lol).

                --
                --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
                • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Saturday February 10 2018, @12:54PM (2 children)

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Saturday February 10 2018, @12:54PM (#635986) Journal

                  See... he's not very good, is he. At writing OR trolling. He doesn't know how to get his own point across.

                  Someone else said he's acting....if so, he's the Justin Bieber of acting: he just sucks.

                  Ok, kiddie. Watch your language and be respectful to 2k old farts, not much necessary but still a bit; you'll find that the discussion can flow easier and more meaningful.

                  Hey, sorry. I'll stop now. YOU I can have a conversation with, because you have intellect; Ari, though, has none and I don't want to talk about him anymore.

                  No seriously, do offer respect. Don't listen to those who tell you "Respect is earned", it's just a justification for their default dismissive position towards you. It's a dog-eat-dog-world thingy, civilized societies don't use it.

                  Have a nice day (I, though, gotta work, lol).

                  Same to you, have a good day at work and have fun after.

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Sunday February 11 2018, @12:13AM (1 child)

                    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 11 2018, @12:13AM (#636180) Journal

                    Don't listen to those who tell you "Respect is earned",

                    I think maybe you take a good idea to far. Every human being that you ever meet should be respected, at some base level. That person's words and actions can build that respect up, or tear it down. After a period of interaction, each person's level of respect is, indeed, "earned".

                    Some of the people who have passed through my life are worthy only of contempt. Others are worthy of my deepest respect. Most, however, maintain a level of respect near that base level.

                    What is base level, anyway? Well - you need a drink, and I have a drink to spare, you're welcome to it. Or, you need a drink, but I don't have one, I'll make at least minimal effort to get a drink for you. Oh - I have a dollar in my pocket, and there's a vending machine down the hall? No problem, I'll get you a drink. Huh? You insist on an alcoholic beverage? Whoops - you just ate a big chunk out of that base respect thing.

                    Respect goes up and down, and it is indeed earned, in the final analysis.

                    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by c0lo on Sunday February 11 2018, @12:51AM

                      by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Sunday February 11 2018, @12:51AM (#636188) Journal

                      Respect is an investment. Which sometime may not pay off.

                      Some of the people who have passed through my life are worthy only of contempt.

                      Contempt is another type of investment, it requires emotional resources (to demonstrate: think of a situation where you would need to spend a whole evening with people you have only contempt for. Or being a life partner for years with a person for whom you feel only contempt).

                      I usually stop at indifference when the respect is gone.

                      --
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford