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from the planned^Wscheduled-obsolescence dept.
Sonos, the consumer electronics company known for audio streaming and "smart" speakers, has decided that the music controller device, the "CR100", has reached end of life. By which they mean they will be pushing a software upgrade that will kill it.
... the next Sonos update in early April will turn off the CR100 connection -- unless you decide you don't want any updates at all. (Make sure you set that up in advance -- if you accept the update, you can't undo it and go back to using the old controller.)
That means if you want to keep on using a device you're happy with, you have to give up all the new features on all your Sonos speakers.
The company says its primary concern is the age of the lithium ion batteries in the controllers; although in that case an official device recall would be better than an update that stops them working - and a battery replacement scheme would handle the problem just as well.
Although the controller is old (Sonos stopped selling the CR100 in 2009) it is still perfectly functional for many users. However, according to a forum posting explaining the options these users will have to choose between the CR100 and the functionality of the rest of their system:
... opting not to update means you will not receive any new features or future security patches for your entire system – not just the CR100. For example, being on an unsupported version means that you might lose connectivity to music services, as is already the case for Google Play Music on the CR100. It is necessary to configure your system in advance to avoid future updates. Any update applied to the firmware and/or to the app, even unintentionally, is irreversible.
Originally spotted on The EEV Blog Youtube channel.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 12 2018, @12:05PM (27 children)
I understand where both the devs and the consumers are coming from there. It's a pain in the ass to keep updating code for ancient hardware (when it's even possible) but if I buy something I expect it to keep working as well as when I bought it until it physically breaks.
As for the bean counters? Fuck them. Customer satisfaction is what gets you strong long-term profits, which are worth a lot more than a few years of good quarterly profits and then nothing because everybody is pissed off at you.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 12 2018, @12:24PM (8 children)
This kind of horse-shit is why I am very leery of spending money for the latest technology.
If I do not understand it, or worse, having to agree to remain ignorant of how it works, I really question my sanity about actually spending money for the thing. Do I really need this thing? Are they flat downright telling me they have already planned to be a pain-in-the-ass, and want me to legally acknowledge?
I do not need any more problems. If I can't fix it, why do I even want it?
Its just another thing in my life sucking the life force right out of me. I need it as much as another mother-in-law.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by anubi on Monday February 12 2018, @12:56PM (5 children)
Oh, incidentally, about those lithium batteries... I have gone to quite a bit of trouble to make sure everything I buy is built around "18650" lithium ion batteries... so that if I do have a problem, I can change it out. My laptop uses them, my power tools use them, and every flashlight I have uses them. ( Ultrafire WF-502B ). I also have power scissors and little powered screwdrivers powered by single 18650 cells. The main reason I chose that particular design was they were assembled with screws, which could be removed should I need to replace the cell.
I understand the importance of cell matching, so I will go ahead and buy laptop packs and Ryobi packs premade, with no plans to fix should they go out... but I know they are full of 18650, so when any of them malfunction, I open them up and have plenty of 18650 for other things.
I am looking for a shaver that uses them... also a good shortwave radio... the three-cell TECSUN is damned close... just wish these people would redesign the battery compartments so it will take three AAA cells in a holder, or an 18650 cell.
I simply can't see why these devices can't be made so that the case can be opened and the cells replaced. I can understand them not wanting liability, so I certainly do not expect instructions on how to do this ( as giving someone instructions probably creates a liability )... but its obvious to anyone who does electronic work what to do. Lithium batteries can be dangerous if mistreated, and that's probably a reason why manufacturers are being such a pain in the ass, but planned obsolescence is probably the main reason manufacturers seem to go out of their way to make high-priced junk.
I noted the battery in my cheapie BLU phone is replaceable. The expensive name-brand status-symbol phone does not. The battery thing was a big plus in my deciding which phone I was going to buy.
I keep seeing these battery powered thingies in the stores. I always have a WF-502 with me. I am always seeing if the thingie can use an 18650.
A "raid" on a battery recycling bin at WalMart several years ago has given me more 18650 cells than I will use in a lifetime. I had a bunch of NiCads I had brought in and asked the manager if I could take some of the laptop batteries, and he saw no problem with that, so in went those NiCads ( I flat do not like NiCads ), and out came the battery packs I knew would be filled with 18650.
AliExpress even has big battery holders already set up with charger/ balancers to make energy banks.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 12 2018, @02:25PM (2 children)
I resisted moving to those 18650's for quite awhile. When I finally got my first 2-cell flashlight that uses them, I decided to move EVERYTHING to them. No more rechargeable AA or AAA. My multimeters are the only things left - one uses AAA another uses a 9-volt, and I still don't know what the ampmeter has in it. I like having everything interchangeable. I don't like the first cheap 18650's that I got with the flashlights - I now have all Panasonic. The advantage of "standardizing" on one battery is just beautiful!
(Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday February 13 2018, @06:59AM (1 child)
You ain't kiddin' about the beauty of having a standard container of electrical power. One size fits all, but some may take several to do the job.
I knew a few years ago when we had a power outage, and I needed a flashlight. I went to the "emergency" kit I had so carefully prepared a few years ago, and retrieved one of the three D-cell flashlights and batteries I had so carefully packed. None of the alkaline D cells were any good.
I had already torn apart an old laptop battery, and was wondering about the six little cylindrical cells I found in it... never had seen anything like them before, but they did have one number stamped on their labels... 18650 ... so I fed this number to Google to find out what it was. At that time, I did not know that was an industry - standard cell and lots of stuff had them in it. More excited, I went to AliExpress and typed the same number in, and it gave me lots of cells and things that used them. Wasn't all that expensive either. I had seen these "tactical" flashlights in the local electronics store selling in the neighborhood of $100, and considered them economically useless... but now seeing extremely similar flashlights selling for less than $10, I bought two dozen of them. And got all the chargers for them as well... you know, those handy USB in/USB out ones. Handiest things I have bought in a helluva long time. So I use a few, and have the rest in a drawer. Even the dollar store has those plug-in adapters to make USB power from cigarette lighter power. I knew right then I would never have another day of my life stymied by dead flashlights.
No sense even keeping flashlights in the earthquake kit any more. No more discovering $20 worth of Alkaline D cells floating in a pool of corrosion right when I needed them. I can always find some source of electricity to charge an 18650... car or solar panel if line power is out.
During the last power outage at night at work, I was johnny-on-the-spot with my drawer of flashlights... I had enough for everyone there. All the other "backup" lighting had failed, but every one of those WF-502's fired right up. Gotta keep the cells somewhere, so I bought extra flashlights just to hold the cells, as I know they are lithium, and should one ever get out of control, I wanted it doing so in a sturdy aluminum container, and storing the cells in a flashlight keeps them from shorting out should the container of cells get jostled "just so"... I have seen damn near every D cell I have ever had leak.... I have not seen an 18650 leak yet. Even my NiCd's would grow all sorts of corrosive fuzz around the top seal in a few years - and were always dead when I really needed 'em. The lithiums seem happy sitting around for years.
I also bought power banks that use multiple cells, so that: 1-I can easily keep them charged and 2- I have a place to store them, and 3- I have a source of substantial USB and 12V power to operate other things should the need arise. I even have thingies that actually can drain enough current out of these things to start a car - I bought two to start my diesel van. Just in case. Glow plugs need a lot of power before I even try to crank that big old IDI engine.
It is quite a relief to know just what my assets are and what options I have in the event an emergency arises. I flat do not want to be like those Hurricane Sandy people who had useless solar arrays because their grid-tie inverters would not power up until they had line power to sync to. If I know I can get 16V at 5 Amps from each solar panel, then I use variable input DC power converters to keep car batteries topped off, and use that.
Its all part of being prepared.
If we do have a natural disaster, I want to have something to trade... as everyone has their special thing they do better than anyone else.
Mine is making sure we can keep our stuff powered up, no matter what.
Even my soldering iron will work off my Ryobi power tool batteries or my van battery, and I can charge my Ryobi packs and my 18650 cells in the van. If you haven't been recently, go to Home Depot to see quite an impressive array of things that run on Ryobi power packs. Don't buy their damned cheap incandescent flashlight though. It puzzles me why they even made the damned thing. Highly inefficient, you don't get much light out of it at all! First thing I did with the one I got as a premium in a package discount was strip out the light bulb and put in a little USB power downconverter so I can pull USB power from a Ryobi pack. ( Some of those little "car chargers" are rated 12-24 volts, the Ryobi is around 18 Volt. A little work with epoxy and stiff plastic netted me a replacement "lens assembly" that had a USB jack in it, not a light bulb. And a pair of banana jacks that permit my soldering iron assembly direct access to the 18 volt battery rail.)
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday February 13 2018, @03:10PM
Yeah, my flashlights were marketed as "tactical flashlights". They have a stupid serrated end, that will probably cut a man's throat, if you were to put it to that use. To me, it's just stupid. I love the LED light. A typical 3 D-cell professional flashlight, like the cops carry, will kinda light up the side of a building, 50 to 75 yards away. This little flashlight that I carry in my hip pocket will actually light up the side of a building in the same conditions. Better yet, I can focus it on something on that building. The door, a window, a hole where a tree branch went through the roof or wall - whatever. Let the crazies salivate over that "tactical" bullshit - I have a working light that outshines anything I've ever owned, with the exception of auto headlights, or a searchlight.
When I bought my first one, I took it to work, and several people asked where I got it. I told them, "Ebay" but no one seems to be capable of searching Ebay for themselves. I ended up ordering six of the same lights, and sold them all to coworkers. I ordered another dozen, and sold five of those. The rest are cached in my vehicle, in my toolboxes, and in my desks.
LEDs are beautiful, is anyone really wants to know!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 12 2018, @02:31PM (1 child)
What? You don't want to re-purchase our product ever several years? Be a good little consumer nigger and buy what we tell you to buy. Look, they have blue LEDs! Niggs love blue LEDs!
(Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday February 13 2018, @07:08AM
Yep... troll.... but your message is loud and clear. We keep buying crap. So they keep making crap. And getting our money.
Not everyone out there is a Soylentil. Most of us have the technical acumen of knowing crap when we see it.
But there are an awful lot of people who are swayed by presentation more than substance. And those guys keep being taken to the cleaners... over and over and over. And they keep funding all this crap.
I have said it before, and I will say it again..... for some people, presentation is everything. Even shit will be received as a delicacy - if correctly presented.
And they end up with all the shit.
And our landfills overflow with shit.
While "businessmen" grin all the way to the bank with the funds given by people gullible enough to fall for their sales pitch.
If one thinks education is expensive, try ignorance. And I do not mean "university". I mean dig into things youself - ask questions - be curious as to how your stuff works. Don't delude yourself into thinking someone else is going to try to guarantee you a happy life. You are the captain of your ship, and if you don't know how your engine works, you are gonna be in for a helluva lotta trips to the cleaners.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Informative) by Arik on Monday February 12 2018, @05:22PM
Yes, exactly.
And at this point they have every reason to think that the consumer is SO stupid, SO short-sighted, SO bloody brain-dead that they can get away with it.
Don't buy this shit people. Don't let people you care about buy this shit. These companies are enemies of humanity, do NOT feed them more money!
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 12 2018, @09:49PM
I would be pretty happy with a mother in law that wanted to suck the life out of me.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 12 2018, @12:39PM (4 children)
That's not an excuse to release the source code. If there are patents, remove the tainted code and provide a link to the patent description (so others can write/host an implementation in a country that does not do in these kinds of silliness).
(Score: 5, Insightful) by fustakrakich on Monday February 12 2018, @03:18PM (3 children)
Nobody should be allowed to keep patents and copyrights on things they refuse to sell or service. If you want respect for patent and copyright laws, there must be compulsory licensing. Can't have one without the other.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 12 2018, @09:29PM (2 children)
The copyrights would be solved by open sourcing it (putting it under a FOSS license). Patents could be held by some other party, where the manufacturer of the device only has a license to use it, and can't give it away, even if they wanted to.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by fustakrakich on Monday February 12 2018, @09:53PM (1 child)
No, wrong, The idea of compulsory licensing is to fill a demand. The owners of the copyrights/patents are entitled to a royalty, not control. The shortages and crippled technology we suffer are because of present day law allowing control of use and distribution.
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday February 13 2018, @07:17AM
My feeling is if they do not disclose how it works, it not patentable. Its a "trade secret".
My own take on it ( IANAL!!!) is that a condition of patent should be a disclosure of how it works. No disclosure - no patent. Simple as that.
Should I patent putting ink on paper? Now show me the exact pattern of ink on paper, and copyright THAT. But you have to show me the book in print first. And grant you the copyright on that particular pattern of ink on paper.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 5, Interesting) by iwoloschin on Monday February 12 2018, @12:54PM (4 children)
How hard would it have been to just freeze the code? You could even put up a disclaimer saying there's no more patches, even for security, so it's truly a "use at your own risk" device.
I've got a couple of embedded projects at work that are in a "mature" state. The code is not really being actively maintained, but we're still building new devices because the code doesn't really need to be touched unless we find a bug. Even then, the few bugs we've found were related to EOL'd minor components (for instance, it's hard to get a 2GB µSD Card these days...) so they only needed to be applied to new devices, not backported to all existing devices. If someone really finds a major bug I can go back and pull up all of the code and fix it (after taking a few days to figure out what idiot wrote the code...and remember it was me...), but otherwise these projects are just coasting along until we either find a better solution or a major component becomes EOL'd and we're forced to find a better solution.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday February 12 2018, @01:04PM (3 children)
We're talking a "smart" appliance here. Google or some other external API you use a lot would update and break compatibility and everything that uses it would need updated. This is precisely why I hate syndicating our headlines to Twitter.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by sjames on Monday February 12 2018, @10:08PM
But since this is just the remote control, they have 100% control over the API between it and the speaker. There's no reason they shouldn't be able to freeze the code for the controller.
More concerning is the whole battery thing Sonos threw into the discussion. Either it's pure FUD to frighten people into throwing the controller away OR they made a device that turns out to be a firebomb and they should be on the hook to replace the controller with one using a safer battery formulation (there are a number of those that are interchangeable with the old Li-ION batteries).
(Score: 1) by dwilson on Tuesday February 13 2018, @05:45AM (1 child)
So... stop? Twitter is evil, Twitter is a Bad Thing, Twitter usage should not be encouraged... then stop enabling Twitter.
I've seen enough of your posting to know you've got an inner BOFH. Channel that shit! If you find a Twitter-loving user, tell him to get stuffed.
- D
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday February 13 2018, @05:58AM
We've currently got about three hundred of them but I'd keep supporting it if we only had a couple dozen. Every person who Rs TFA is someone I might get to argue about TFA with. Which is why I do all this in the first place.
Honestly though, the Twitter syndicating code is much, much less insanity inducing than the RSS/ATOM code. The only bad part about it is Twitter is absolutely going to change the API and break it again sooner or later.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by theluggage on Monday February 12 2018, @01:27PM
Sounds like bad software design if you have to keep updating the code for something like a controller. Makes it look like someone got sloppy and scattered controller-specific code throughout the codebase rather than putting in some sort of abstraction layer/API. Of course that may be down to the beancounters still. Sounds like (fr)agile development strikes again.
(Score: 1) by fustakrakich on Monday February 12 2018, @02:10PM
Customer satisfaction is what gets you strong long-term profits
Without sufficient demand from the collective, it just won't happen. You have a similar story about Linux support in Razor laptops. Nothing moves until you get a rise out of the crowd.
It is more likely that providing a little extra customer satisfaction (you know, like seat space in the economy section) will tank your stock [dallasnews.com]. You gotta abuse the customer to the maximum extent possible to look good in today's market. It's a fine balance to get it just right [youtube.com].
La politica e i criminali sono la stessa cosa..
(Score: 2) by JoeMerchant on Monday February 12 2018, @04:06PM (1 child)
I bought a couple of IP cameras about 6 years ago. One was a cheap, low res PTZ that I could access from within the home network, and potentially open a hole in my firewall if I wanted to get at it from outside. I didn't use it much, and it died after 3 years of electrical failure. Another was a cheap fixed camera that came with a web based recording and free access service, it was only accessible via the cloud. It was pretty cool when it worked, but I didn't use it much, and after about 3 years I fatigued from constant cloud-access software updates and let it effectively die. For all I know, it still works if I plug it in and spend a couple of hours deciphering how to access it now that the company was bought out and "improved" services made available - but, at any moment it could die from forced shutdown by the company.
I have very mixed emotions about cloud based gadgets, they run about 95% hate and 5% love... I love the "ease of use" and some of the more powerful features offered, but I truly despise the subscription based pricing models on top of having to pay for the hardware up front. I have a garage full of junk I've accumulated over the last 30+ years, and most of it I can pull out of a box, dust it off, and use it just like I could when I put it in the box years ago. And none of that stuff is charging me a monthly fee. Not so with "subscription based" devices. Now, whether I would actually be happier if that garage burned to the ground and I just went and bought what I need, when I need it? I suppose that could be true, until the zombie apocalypse happens, or, during post-hurricane strandings, which do last for a couple of days.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2, Insightful) by EEMac on Monday February 12 2018, @07:52PM
That's why everything from thermostats to dishwashers is becoming cloud-based!
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday February 12 2018, @04:57PM
I understand where the consumers are coming from.
The devs? Not in the slightest. If you're going to do anything, push an update that puts a notice on power up, "This device is no longer supported and is not receiving security updates, and may no longer work with other Sonos components. Visit sonos.com to find the latest hardware. Your clicking OK indicates you understand and agree." There is *absolutely no reason* to brick a device other than rent-seeking.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 12 2018, @05:54PM (1 child)
Amen!
Besides... Killing my machine is THEFT, period. Maybe BAIT and SWITCH... You took my money and gave me a BRICK.
It is easy to block the device from getting access to update itself. Hell, MS has done that with their Windows Update tool. These guys are another APPLE, take way your use of your product. GM and FORD cannot even do that.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 12 2018, @06:58PM
Thank the terrorist organization "Sony" for making that legal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS [wikipedia.org]
If there was any justice left in this world Sony would cease to exist. Instead we have other companies following in their criminal footsteps.
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 13 2018, @04:19AM
I gotta ask: what dev pain? Is it some sort of MBA-created 'ghost pain' for a user requirement that isn't real?
Devs don't have to update old hardware to make it not work. They can just leave it alone.
This thread on the Sonos community alleges Sonos are doing this to get onboard the fad of the day: voice centric controllers.
https://en.community.sonos.com/controllers-software-228995/save-the-cr100-6800510/index10.html [sonos.com]