A federal grand jury in Washington, DC has indicted 13 Russian nationals and a Kremlin-linked internet firm on charges that they had meddled in the 2016 presidential election.
The US government said Russian entities began interfering in US political processes, including the 2016 presidential election, as early as 2014, according to a court document.
[...] The charges – which include conspiracy, wire fraud, bank fraud and aggravated identity theft – are the most direct allegations to date of illegal Russian meddling in the election.
Link to the Indictment: https://www.justice.gov/file/1035477/download
(Score: 5, Informative) by vux984 on Monday February 19 2018, @07:58PM (10 children)
"I'm not going to say that this shouldn't be prosecuted, as I don't have all the facts of the matter."
I'm going to suggest that this should be prosecuted, because while I have limited faith in the legal system; I do have some faith. This isn't a witch hunt, people aren't having confessions tortured out of them. To waffle and say 'i don't have all the facts of the matter' is legitimate and skepticism is healthy ... but past a certain point, its as silly as defending the cigarette companies because you personally haven't seen and personally reviewed all the studies to your satisfaction, therefore your not sure that cigarettes are bad for your health. so it would be "premature to take a side on this issue". At some point when pretty much everybody with a shred of credibility on both sides of the aisle is convinced and all the intelligence agencies agree, then the burden of proof even to be 'neutral' starts to shift to you.
"However, given the well-known and well-documented legal and ethical problems both candidates have"
So even you agree that there's likely some criminal activity to prosecute after all then.
"I highly doubt that anything these people could do made any significant difference in the election results."
Given how close the election was, I don't see how you reach that conclusion with any authority.
And even if it didn't make a significant difference in the election results -- that hardly means it's "ok". Even if it means Trump would have won the election by a greater margin, I'd *still* support rooting out election corruption. The two separate issues shouldn't be conflated as if one mattered to the other.
"I personally don't trust either Clinton or Trump to lead a pack of Cub Scouts, much less a nation. I voted third-party in the Presidential election, for what it's worth, and I'm fairly confident that it was not because of any foreign influence."
Well I guess we can set your vote aside in the confirmed manipulated bix. Only a couple hundred million more people to interview.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @08:02PM
Maybe next time Russia will register a SuperPAC so it's all legal.
(Score: 1, Disagree) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @08:27PM (3 children)
OK, if we are going after election meddling, then when do the indictments start for organizations like AIPAC (and many others)?
How about against Diebold for faulty voting machines?
The list goes on and on.
I suggest that before going after this incident, there are many other more serious things to fix.
(Score: 5, Informative) by vux984 on Monday February 19 2018, @08:51PM (2 children)
Look, I'm with you on stuff like PACs, including AIPAC. They aren't breaking the law though; the law itself needs to change. I support that change.
I'm also with you in opposition to the use of voting machines - I think Canada's paper ballot system is far better model. (And don't tell me its 1/10th the population, because that's irrelevant. The US will have 10x the number of voting stations, 10x the number of ballot boxes, 10x the number of people counting them, it will scale up just fine.) I'm not convinced Diebold was malicious though or broke any laws; just that they were incompetent and made defective equipment. Again, the solution there is to stop using them.
"I suggest that before going after this incident, there are many other more serious things to fix."
That argument never works, and doesn't make a lot of sense. Next time a mugger gets apprehended, he should say "I suggest that before going after this incident, there are many other more serious things to fix. I'm pretty sure there's an unsolved murder or two out there."
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @09:00PM (1 child)
The poll workers claimed that the machine was down, so I should just leave my paper ballot in a pile that they would scan later. Sure...
It's easy with all-electronic voting too. Just "forget" to charge the machines in an area where people vote the wrong way. People will give up and go home.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Monday February 19 2018, @09:56PM
I wonder if absentee ballots are more or less likely to be suppressed.
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 19 2018, @09:29PM (4 children)
"Well I guess we can set your vote aside in the confirmed manipulated bix. Only a couple hundred million more people to interview."
Yeah, no partisanship on your part.
I've been voting third-party since I could vote, almost thirty decades now. I guess that means the Russians have a time machine they've been using to interfere in our elections, by your logic.
(Score: 2) by vux984 on Monday February 19 2018, @09:59PM
"Well I guess we can set your vote aside in the confirmed manipulated bix."
Ugh. Not what I'd intended to say. I'd meant to say confirmed *not* manipulated bin. At least I'm not the only one afflicted with typos.
"I've been voting third-party since I could vote, almost thirty decades now."
thirty decades? what's your secret? :)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @02:26AM (2 children)
And in which elections were you voting, say twenty seven decades ago? Inquiring minds want to know.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @06:11PM (1 child)
The Colonial Legislature, Coroner, Judges, etc. Why, in Rhode Island, I do recall, we did Elect our own Governor. on Diverse Occasions.
And did Vote aloud, no less--none of your "Secret Ballots," no--a Man had to Stand before God, the Judge, the Candidates and the Propertied Men his Neighbours and Declare his Mind, whether it be In Agreement with the Rest or no.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 20 2018, @11:20PM
Oh, so you're an SJW from the East Coast, eh? Why do you hate America? We don't want your kind here.