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Car companies, starting with Volvo last summer, have laid out plans to electrify entire lineups of vehicles. But the fine print makes it clear that the coming decade and beyond will focus not just on massive battery packs powering electric motors, but also on adding a little extra juice to the venerable internal combustion engine.
Increasingly, that juice will arrive in the form of new electrical systems built to a 48-volt standard, instead of the 12-volt systems that have dominated since the 1950s. Simpler than Prius-type drivetrains and less expensive than Tesla-scale battery power, the new electrical architecture both satisfies the demands of cars made more power hungry by their gadget load and enables the use of lower-cost hybrid drive systems.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/business/electric-cars-48-volts.html
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @01:33AM (30 children)
12V car battery gave me more jolt than I can handle when I first started mucking with cars. 48V? Yeah, a real good time to come.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by KilroySmith on Monday February 26 2018, @01:51AM (25 children)
How? By putting your tongue across the terminals?
12V batteries seldom provide more than a slight tingle, and that only if you use a more sensitive part of your body than your hand. For example, touching the positive battery terminal while leaning the inside of your forearm on the body.
Now, do everything in your power to avoid dropping a wrench across the terminals. That's some bad ju-ju there.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @01:58AM (24 children)
Human body, 70% water, is helluva conductor. How old are you?
(Score: 3, Touché) by axsdenied on Monday February 26 2018, @02:28AM (23 children)
The "70% water" in the human body is contained in a bag called skin. Your inside has low resistance but the skin has a resistance of about 10s of K Ohm. Touching the battery with dry hands will not result in enough current to feel anything. Wet hands is a different story though.
By the way, there is no need to insult people with comments like "how old are you", that makes you sound very immature.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @02:45AM (4 children)
And how old are you? I suppose me and all the other dopes who got zapped trying to jump a car are all some weird-ass special physical anomalies?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Monday February 26 2018, @04:11AM
Apparently so. Or you're just over-sensitive to a mild tingle when your hands are wet.
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday February 26 2018, @04:33AM
If you got an actual shock with a 12V battery, you must have been stupid enough to do it in the rain.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @04:38AM
How does one get zapped trying to jump a car? Are you connecting to the ignition coil? I have exploded batteries jumping cars, but never got "zapped". Exactly how young are you? And, admit it, you have never jumpstarted a car, because there was electricity and it was too scary, right?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @09:18PM
Hooked up the wrong terminal first? Dumbass! If you get zapped jumping a car, you have no business popping the hood.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Monday February 26 2018, @02:51AM (17 children)
He's either not that old and think he sounds cool with insults like that, or he really is old, but he's incredibly stupid (smart old people know from experience how limited their knowledge is).
Touching a 12V battery with wet hands is unlikely to cause you any more than a mild electric shock. There just isn't enough voltage there to do much; your skin resistance drops to around 1kohm when you're wet, so you'll get maybe 10-20mA of current, which isn't enough to cause any harm, but it's enough to get a noticeable shock. Wet skin + 120VAC, however, is extremely dangerous because it'll give you a shock in the 100-200mA range, which is the perfect range to cause your heart to fibrillate. 12V with dry skin, of course, is so low-current you can't even feel it. Anyway, this is why 50VDC is considered the top "safe" voltage for humans to work around without any special precautions.
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @03:37AM (16 children)
Kids, listen to this guy. Grab the two terminals, especially with the engine running and the alternator charging the battery. Fun times. Do it.
(Score: 3, Informative) by Grishnakh on Monday February 26 2018, @03:55AM (2 children)
if you really think 14.4V is going to hurt you, you're a fucking idiot.
(Score: 1) by pTamok on Tuesday February 27 2018, @12:24PM (1 child)
Apparently, 9V is enough to kill. Ask the US Navy (Darwin Awards) [darwinawards.com].
Yes, the person concerned intentionally punctured their skin, thereby bypassing the protection of the normal high resistence of dry skin.
Some people find out that 9V is not as innocuous as it first appears by licking the poles of a 9V PP3 [wikipedia.org] battery. I do not recommend this practice. If you have dental amalgam fillings and have ever accidentally chewed a piece of aluminium foil wrapper, you'll know that parts of the body are exquisitely sensitive to even the small currents generated by the dissimilar metals involved [howstuffworks.com].
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Tuesday February 27 2018, @04:59PM
Apparently, 9V is enough to kill. Ask the US Navy (Darwin Awards) [darwinawards.com].
Yes, the person concerned intentionally punctured their skin, thereby bypassing the protection of the normal high resistence of dry skin.
Oh please. Almost anything can kill you if you're unlucky enough, or do something stupid enough with it. One inch of water can drown you, but it's pretty hard to actually breathe in from a 1" pool of water unless you're trying hard. Pencils aren't normally considered deadly weapons but it is possible to kill someone with one. Or how about plain old air? Think that's dangerous? Normally, no, you even need it to live. However, I can easily kill you with it, if I inject a syringe full of air into your veins. But no one sane considers air a "deadly weapon".
In normal use, 9V is not dangerous. But as with so many things, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to stick it in your mouth.
(Score: 3, Informative) by axsdenied on Monday February 26 2018, @04:06AM (12 children)
Can you please explain why engine running and alternator charging the battery will change anything. And please no insults, they really do not contribute to the discussion.
And kids, don't listen to the anonymous coward either. Do some research and make an informed decision. Random people on the internet are usually NOT a good source of information.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @04:21AM (6 children)
Battery holds only so much charge, it's basically a slow-discharging capacitor. Alternator is an electrical generator - it uses engine power to generate continuous electrical power. Battery gives you a short jolt, alternator/generator keeps feeding the current that can fry you.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @04:38AM
That's not how electrical current works.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by aristarchus on Monday February 26 2018, @04:47AM
Some times I despair, when things like using Microserf Woerd is called "Computer Science, but the so-called STEM techies are ignorant of the most basic facts of physics. Batteries, hm, alternator!! Running car, with power! So you will get fried! Please, spare us.
Interesting story, however. I knew one of the first owners of an automobile in the Territories. He would drive around from town to town, turn off his horseless carriage, and hand the coil wire to a local to hold while he turned over the engine with a crank. 10 Thousand Volts! Now that is a capacitor. No one died.
Also, little know fact, when there were only two automobiles in the entire Territory, they managed to run into each other.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:51AM
Either learn the most basic fundamentals of electricity or get a lot better at bullshitting. You're awful at both.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:57AM (1 child)
According to my mechanic, it takes 15 minutes of driving to recharge the battery after starting a car.
That's 15 minutes for the alternator to supply the amount of power to the battery, that the battery supplied to the starter motor in a couple of seconds.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @10:35AM
The CCA on a starter battery is usually around 500 amps. A good alternator will put out 50 amps at 14 volts. Unless you are simultaneously running every electrical gadget in the car a few seconds of cranking the engine is going to be repaid in less than a minute of running.
Your basic point is correct though, the battery can output far more than the alternator. 6000 watts vs 600 watts
(Score: 2) by axsdenied on Monday February 26 2018, @11:24AM
Please look up on wikipedia how electricity works. For your own sake.
Few people have already told you that you are wrong and not a single person is agreeing with you. Just think about it for a few seconds before you write another comment.
And stop insulting people, that puts you in the troll category.
End of conversation.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @04:53AM (3 children)
Bite your tongue!
Next you'll be telling us how Alex Jones, Rush, RT, The Daily Stormer and Breitbart are honest brokers of information, right?
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday February 26 2018, @06:34AM (2 children)
Next you'll be telling us how Alex Jones, Rush, RT, The Daily Stormer and Breitbart are honest brokers of information, right?
WTF? Rush is a great band; what are they doing in this list? Some of Neil's views are naively libertarian, but otherwise they have a lot of great songs.
(Score: 1) by knarf on Monday February 26 2018, @09:08AM (1 child)
Wouldn't that be Rush Limbaugh instead of the Canadian band?
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @04:29PM
Someone forgot to bring their sense of humor to the keyboard again.
But, truth be told, he's not really a New World Man [youtube.com], hell he's not even a Working Man [youtube.com], even if he's been seen in his Red Barchetta [youtube.com].
That said, he certainly does love the Limelight [youtube.com]!
Now look what you made me do!
(Score: 2) by KilroySmith on Wednesday March 07 2018, @02:05AM
The battery by itself will be 12V; when being charged by the alternator, it'll be about 14.4V. So about 2.4V more to push current through your body. Still not hazardous.
And the battery is quite capable of putting out 10 times the current of the alternator.
(Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Monday February 26 2018, @01:52AM
There will be warning labels, "No user serviceable parts under this hood, keep your dick skinners out!" Of course, no one will heed those warnings.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by JoeMerchant on Monday February 26 2018, @03:18AM
If you're not careful with cars (specifically: spark plugs) you can get some very memorable jolts from them.
12 vs 48V? Meh. I'd actually prefer the lower amperage fuses/breakers that come with a 48V line, 20A (common in 12V systems) can cook a wire quickly, 5A is quite a bit more tame.
🌻🌻 [google.com]
(Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday February 26 2018, @03:55AM (1 child)
It's the current that's more dangerous than the voltage though. I've been told scuffing your stocking feet across a carpet and touching the doorknob is a shock of over 10kV, but the current is so low as to be negligible. Besides which, your skin is a pretty good insulator, isn't it? Assuming the same total wattage, W = V*I, if the voltage quadruples from 12V to 48V, the current is .25 of what it was before.
I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
(Score: 5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @05:05AM
I hear this all the time, but it is simplifying what effects electrical currents have on the human body to the point of being devoid of any meaning.
This is not the case. The electric current from such an electrostatic discharge is measured in the hundreds of amperes. The air molecules between your finger and the doorknob are being literally ripped apart yet it barely hurts you. This releases enough energy to heat the air to thousands of degrees in a few microseconds, creating shockwaves throughout the nearby air and emitting visible light via blackbody radiation. This is what you see and hear. At the same time you feel something because some of your skin cells are burned by this plasma. (You can actually try this: hold a key and touch that to the doorknob instead of touching the doorknob directly with your finger. You won't feel anything!)
The fact is things are much more complicated than just "current kills you".