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Sweden will do whatever it takes, including sending in the army, to end a wave of violence that has seen a string of deadly shootings, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said in Wednesday.
Sweden's murder rate is relatively low in international terms, but gang violence has surged in recent years and Swedes are worried that the police are unable to cope.
In 2016, the latest year for which official statistics are available, 106 people were murdered in Sweden, a country of 10 million.
But Swedish TV reported there were over 300 shootings, mostly in turf battles between gangs over drugs, protection rackets and prostitution.
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Swedish PM Does Not Rule Out Use of Army to End Gang Violence
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
I consider the day misspent that I am not either charged with a crime,
or arrested for one.
-- "Ratsy" Tourbillon
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:21PM (14 children)
See Posse Comitatus Act [wikipedia.org]
American governance is extremely leery of the Federal Government; after all, the American Revolution was fought to free the colonies from a far-off, centralized military power that had little respect for representing citizens.
(Score: 3, Informative) by janrinok on Monday February 26 2018, @08:49PM (4 children)
So in the US the National Guard are not used to help during regional disasters? That is MACP, it doesn't seem to be too outlawed there. Any time that military personnel are used at the behest of local or regional government in any task other than war fighting, it is usually under MACP. I suspect if you look closely you will see that it happens quite often in the US.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:54PM (1 child)
Please, read the whole linked article for a pretty good picture.
(Score: 2) by janrinok on Wednesday February 28 2018, @05:47AM
One political party in Sweden has 'linked public concern' with the issue with immigration. The populist party are anti-immigration, and so they will try to link any of Sweden's problems to immigration whenever they can, It does not make it so. There is no proven correlation between these particular crimes and the immigrants, although there are lots of other crimes that can be easily and justifiably linked to them. The problems that are causing concern are "drugs, protection rackets and prostitution", all of which existed before the current influx of immigrants.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by frojack on Monday February 26 2018, @09:09PM (1 child)
In spite of the name, the National guard is under State Government control when deployed as a police force in the US.
Perhaps that's a distinction with out a difference in your mind.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:52AM
Actually. I think that, in this case, it is a distinction without a difference.
IIUC, Sweden does *not* have a federal system like the US. As such, any National Guard analog in Sweden would have to be controlled by a central entity, since there is no Federal/state government separation in Sweden, as there is in the US.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by Grishnakh on Monday February 26 2018, @08:53PM (4 children)
Wrong. America routinely use military servicepeople in a police capacity. If you'd like to see it today, go take a trip to New York City. You'll most likely see armed troops in BDUs in the Port Authority Bus Terminal and in the weird shopping mall next to the 9/11 memorial and Freedom Tower.
The Posse Comitatus Act doesn't apply, because these troops are National Guard troops ordered by the state governor. But being state-deployed instead of federally doesn't somehow make them not military troops.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @08:58PM (3 children)
Not only are the National Guard units of a State sourced from citizens of that State, but also the Governor of the State is the one who deploys and ultimately commands them.
It's not that the military is helping the States via the National Guard, but rather that the States are helping the military via the National Guard—that's why the National Guard units are considered to be part of the the "reserve components" of the military.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday February 26 2018, @09:03PM (2 children)
Yes, the Governor commands them.... and then allows direct Federal control of them when FEMA assumes command of a situation under Title 32, again at the Governor's request. Not to mention Defense Support of Civilian Activities, where Federal troops may provide support roles as well. https://training.fema.gov/emiweb/is/is75/student%20manual/student%20manual.pdf [fema.gov]
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @09:05PM (1 child)
I'm not sure what your point is.
(Score: 2) by aristarchus on Wednesday February 28 2018, @10:46AM
I am not sure there is a point.
(Score: 2) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Monday February 26 2018, @08:59PM (1 child)
Which doesn't apply at all to the National Guard in supporting state law enforcement at the Governor's request. It is usually only common to have units actually on patrol during natural disasters; usually the support they provide either provides intelligence or relieves sworn law enforcement of non-enforcement duties so they can focus on enforcement.
And five minutes of research shows that half of Sweden's military is a "home guard" which is not unlike the Guard and Reserve - though not necessarily in command and control.
As for our country.... Wait for another school shooting or two - eventually we'll have National Guard troops in our schools I'm sure.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 26 2018, @09:09PM
Your comment and the necessary reply have both already appeared in this thread. Your comment is redundant.
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Monday February 26 2018, @10:58PM (1 child)
Which of course in no way applies here, because Sweden isn't the USA.
That said, I'm not convinced the US response to bad guys with military firepower has been much better. If your problem is "criminal gang with enough weaponry to outgun your police forces", which seems like the least-bad choice:
A. Use your military when necessary to fight these gangs?
B. Turn your cops into military-like units (SWAT, the cops with tanks and APCs, etc)?
C. Allow gangs with sufficient firepower to function basically unmolested by the authorities?
I'm pretty sure option C isn't what anybody wants. Option A, while bad, at least offers the possibility that the army will come in, do a specific job, and head back to base, and the bureaucratic negotiating involved each time they do that means they won't be called in unless they really are needed. Option B, by contrast, means those souped-up cops are there to stay, and if they don't have anything to do they'll find something to do.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday February 27 2018, @01:01AM
Gordon Lightfoot's "Black Day in July", about the Detroit riots and imposition of martial law: