France to set legal age of sexual consent as 15
France plans to fix the legal age of sexual consent as 15, meaning sex with someone younger than that would be considered rape.
Equality Minister Marlène Schiappa welcomed the move, which follows advice from doctors and legal experts. Currently, prosecutors must prove sex with someone under 15 was forced in order to bring rape charges. The change comes amid uproar over two recent cases of men accused of having sex with 11-year-old girls.
Under the existing legislation, if there is no violence or coercion proved, offenders may only be charged with sexual abuse of a minor and not rape. This has a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a fine of €75,000 (£66,000; $87,000).
[...] The government is to approve the new age limit as part of a package of other laws against sexual violence and harassment in the coming weeks. It had been discussing whether to set the age as 13 or 15, which is what groups fighting violence against children had campaigned for.
Les commentaires déplorables.
Also at The Local, NPR, and SBS.
Related: French Porn Star Hits Back at President Emmanuel Macron's Plans to Censor Online Porn
(Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Thursday March 08 2018, @02:54AM (38 children)
Its interesting how in the old days the age of sex was approximately the age of successfully forming and raising a family, and now those ages are diverging at an increasing rate.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 08 2018, @03:00AM (8 children)
Indeed. My father had a job and an apartment of his own at thirteen. And still managed to graduate highschool.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by coolgopher on Thursday March 08 2018, @03:11AM (3 children)
Honestly, these days it feels like we're over-schooling and under-educating.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 08 2018, @03:42AM (2 children)
That ain't no shit. I'd highly recommend anyone not planning on being a doctor, chemist, engineer, or the like drop out of school as soon as they're legally allowed to, get their GED just for the sake of having it, and either get a job or go to trade school. They're not going to learn anything useful in highschool past their freshman year that they can't learn online at their convenience.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @06:00AM (1 child)
Forget the GED and call yourself an autodidact, since that's what you'd be anyway. The standards of our school system are pathetic to the point where a trained monkey could almost get a GED and high school diploma, and they always were pathetic. There were no 'good old days' for our schooling system. As such, anyone requiring such worthless pieces of paper isn't worth working for in the first place.
(Score: 4, Touché) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 08 2018, @12:03PM
Depends on your perspective. We used to teach Greek and Latin in public schools. Today we're lucky if they can speak English passably and know better than to eat laundry detergent.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @11:19AM (1 child)
This explains so much
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 08 2018, @12:25PM
It certainly should. Unfortunately not everyone grows up with a good role model handy. Which is part of why I am so often found spreading the lessons imparted to me. Nobody should have to go through life unable to make it on their own and thinking the world owes them something because of ignorance.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 3, Funny) by driverless on Thursday March 08 2018, @11:43AM (1 child)
Luxury! At thirteen my father lived in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. He used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down at mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out, and never even saw a highschool.
(Score: 1) by infodragon on Thursday March 08 2018, @01:52PM
I used to watch him walking to that mill in 5 feet of snow up hill both ways while I was sitting in my gold gilded mansion^H^H^H^H^H^H^H house eating soup out of my silver spoon! Poor sap, he should work harder and pull himself out of that misery just like my father's father did!
Don't settle for shampoo, demand real poo!
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday March 08 2018, @03:05AM (25 children)
Given that sexual maturity age hasn't modified dramatically (evolution is not that fast), I'd look into why the age of successfully raising a family diverged from the first.
Any hunches?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @03:27AM (10 children)
It used to be that a boy would get a job at a young age. This would provide experience. By perhaps age 13, give or take a few years, the boy had decent employment experience.
There is a minimum age now, 14 if I remember right. Nearly-full employment freedom doesn't come until age 18. (leaving out selling alcohol)
Assuming the age requirement is met, the boy still must deal with competition and overcome the minimum wage. That minimum wage means that most employers will not be willing to hire a boy; he has been made more expensive than he is worth. His lack of experience will mean he has little chance to get experience.
We stick the typical boy with college debt. This makes him less appealing and less able as a husband and provider and father.
We killed wages with oversupply. There are women in the workforce, illegal aliens running around, and even outsourcing. The boy needs the experience, but he can't offer to work below the minimum wage. Once there are adults at minimum wage, he has no chance.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:20AM (9 children)
There. FTFY.
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday March 08 2018, @04:37PM (8 children)
What is this, pretentious word day? What the heck are you talking about?
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by NotSanguine on Thursday March 08 2018, @04:59PM (7 children)
Why didn't you quote from the section actually linked?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopsony#Static_monopsony_in_a_labor_market [wikipedia.org]
Maybe because you're just trying to distract from the issue?
Being deliberately obtuse, I see. Good for you! I imagine that makes it easier to cling to your delusions.
More detail here:
https://eh.net/encyclopedia/monopsony-in-american-labor-markets/ [eh.net]
And here:
http://equitablegrowth.org/equitablog/monopsony-market-power-labor-market/ [equitablegrowth.org] which gives an example to which many on SN can relate (sorry, not cars):
What's more, wages are also held down (even in low-skill jobs like factory and fast food workers [nytimes.com]) through Non-compete clauses in employment contracts [nationalreview.com]:
Note that the links above are from both the NY Times and National Review -- so we're seeing the same conclusions from (funny about how facts can do that) all "sides".
I assume you won't bother to reply as you really don't have anything worthwhile to say.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:30PM (6 children)
Jesus H. Christ you people are getting touchy about stuff. I forgot there was a subsection linked. But sure, assume I'm arguing in bad faith.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:39PM (4 children)
And I quoted what I did because the subsection was of a term I've never heard anyone use before in my life, so thought it would be useful to figure out what the heck it meant before reading a subapplication of it.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by NotSanguine on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:57PM (3 children)
Fair enough. But you didn't really figure out what was being talked about did you?
All you did was do some hand-waving rather than pick up the (relatively simple) concept and make a reasoned argument.
If you were unwilling or unable to make a reasoned argument, why dismiss it with:
And when it was explained to you, you still refuse to make any sort of argument *and* mod me down for explaining it.
Is that how it is with you? If you can't muster an actual argument, you just respond angrily and mod others down to make yourself feel better?
Not that I really care about the downmod, but apparently you do. Why is that? Does it make you feel powerful? More in control? If so, please go ahead and mod this down too, as I want you to be happy.
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by tangomargarine on Thursday March 08 2018, @08:06PM (1 child)
No, I modded you down because you called me a bunch of names and insulted me.
"Is that really true?" "I just spent the last hour telling you to think for yourself! Didn't you hear anything I said?"
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday March 08 2018, @11:23PM
For the record (please go back and confirm it) I didn't "call you names."
I suggested that you were being "deliberately obtuse." While that's unflattering, it's not name calling. Perhaps I made an incorrect assumption, but I drew a reasonable conclusion based upon your response.
I also suggested that you were deluded. Again, that's not name calling, that's a judgement about your mental state. Whether it's correct or not (which I suspect is a matter of some debate in the medical community, but I digress), is another matter. But again, that's not calling you names.
I also made an assumption that you didn't have anything worthwhile to say on this subject. Again, that's not calling you names. In fact, it appears (at least so far) that I was correct in that assumption.
Apparently, you were insulted by what I said. That's the first reasonable thing you've said in this entire exchange. I guess we're making progress. Hooray!
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @08:18PM
Don't worry - I'll mod you down so whats-his-face doesn't have to bother. It'll make me happy!
(Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday March 08 2018, @06:02PM
Who is this "you people"? If you don't like what *I* have to say, then that's me. I don't belong to some amorphous group. I speak *my* mind and don't parrot the broad brush "talking points" of others.
Okay. I believe you. You weren't being deliberately obtuse. Was there anything confusing or difficult to understand about my explanation of labor monopsony or the language of the articles I linked?
Do you have any questions or disagreement about the point being made, or are you just not interested enough to find out? If the former, let's discuss! If the latter, why respond at all?
No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:25AM (10 children)
Evolution doesn't happen that fast, but changes in diet do. There's also evidence of certain food additives having hormone like qualities. The age of maturity has lowered, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty#Historical_shift [wikipedia.org] This one mentions stress as a cause as well https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2465479/ [nih.gov]. Lots of evidence that the age of puberty is dropping, though there has always been out-layers, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers [wikipedia.org].
Meanwhile, we've invented this phase of life called childhood, not long ago a 5 year old was considered a small adult, with all the responsibilities that went with that. After working for 10+ years, getting married at 15+ was a lot different then today where childhood is constantly being extended to keep the labour force balanced against automation, a trend that started around the turn of the 20th century when automation meant less resistance to child labour laws.
(Score: 3, Informative) by c0lo on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:37AM (4 children)
Yes, but not by that much as the "age of successfully raising a family" contributed to the divergence.
It is not unusual to find "kids" living with the parents at 30 years of age [www.cbc.ca]. This was 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 3, Informative) by dry on Thursday March 08 2018, @06:25AM (3 children)
Besides how childhood keeps getting extended, there's simple economics, young people can't afford to move out anymore. I live 50 miles out of town, the vacancy rate is well below 1%, the median price of a house is $980,000 with the average being somewhat lower. It just gets more expensive towards town where the better jobs are. Kids can't afford to move out anymore.
When I left home, you could rent an adequate apartment, eat not bad and save some money, all while working at minimum wage. Now, not so much, especially with the landlords being able to be very picky, the construction boom that involves tearing down the cheap housing to build something more profitable and the supposed non-existent inflation raising prices on the necessities.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @07:13AM
These rules drive prices up. We're trying to live beyond our means.
We're competing with people who live in cages (East Asia), huts (Africa and Southeast Asia), caves (western China and South Asia), etc.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Thursday March 08 2018, @12:10PM (1 child)
If you get away from the insanely crowded major cities, housing prices drop literally an entire order of magnitude from that. The guy who owns the house I'm currently renting wants in the neighborhood of $70K for it. For a (he says four, I say three) bedroom with a double lot in the nicer part of town.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday March 08 2018, @04:42PM
Here, you have to get at least a hundred miles out of the city, which basically puts you in mountains. Prices are high over most of the Province (BC).
(Score: 1, Troll) by ilPapa on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:45AM (2 children)
Yes, according to the most authoritative scientific sources on the web, eating soy can make you less masculine. Fortunately, there's a solution:
http://www.infowarsshop.com/Super-Male-Vitality-_p_1227.html [infowarsshop.com]
You are still welcome on my lawn.
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday March 08 2018, @06:11AM (1 child)
I was thinking of certain plastics that have properties similar to estrogen.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @01:03PM
Let us provide a link hoping at least one person would click it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenoestrogen [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday March 08 2018, @02:23PM
"teen" and "retired" are also relatively recent western inventions. They tried to launch "tween" but it failed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @06:22PM
That list of young mothers is horrifying. So many fucked up people in this world.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @09:42PM (2 children)
https://ethiopia.limbo13.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/menarche-chart-thumb1.jpg [limbo13.com] It hasn't? Looks pretty dramatic to me. If you think this kind of thing only depends on genes you are ill-informed.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @09:59PM
For fun, plot age of consent trends on the same chart
(Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday March 08 2018, @11:00PM
Mate, keeping into account that from 2014 the number of 'kids' In the 18 to 30 you bracket who are still living with the parents surpassed the ones living independently (the ones able to sustain a family) in US, the evolution would have to push the puberty age up to immediately after birth to dramatically contribute to the divergence.
Wake me up when it happens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 08 2018, @05:39AM
(Score: 3, Interesting) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Thursday March 08 2018, @04:41PM (1 child)
then married in California. They homesteader some land
He was 17, she 14
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by VLM on Friday March 09 2018, @03:46PM
Farming is a special exception because farming is a skilled trade although few people know that. So people ignorant of the situation who would correctly look at a 17 year Electricans or Carpenters apprenticeship as something weird and screwed up, will look at a 17 year Farming apprenticeship as ridiculously under qualified for the job, which is not the case.