Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by janrinok on Saturday March 10 2018, @06:04AM   Printer-friendly
from the countdown-to-new-regulations? dept.

A "personal drone" that crashed and burst into flames was the cause of the Kendrick Fire, a 335 acre fire in the Coconino National Forest (wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconino_National_Forest) in northern Arizona, USA. Coconino National Forest spokesman George Jozens said that about 30 firefighters from the U.S. Forest Service and Summit Fire and Medical worked to quell the fire.

Article: https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-breaking/2018/03/06/personal-drone-sparks-335-acre-wildfire-north-flagstaff/401493002/


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by anubi on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:51AM (4 children)

    by anubi (2828) on Saturday March 10 2018, @09:51AM (#650475) Journal

    If negligence were involved, I am all for it.

    If I am careless with my barbeque, and set my neighbor's house ablaze, hell yes, I am responsible! I carry insurance for that sort of thing. There are accidents, and there are things like having drunk barbeque parties. Like, just what do I do if my propane tank explodes or the valve flies apart at just the wrong moment? Not likely, but its possible.

    Interesting situation though... my neighbor's car ignited itself about ten years ago... right in his own garage! He had just parked it and ready to go into his house, and the thing caught fire. Thinking quickly, he shoved it into neutral and pushed it out into the street. I still have the burn marks in the pavement in front of MY house! But leaving it in front of HIS house was not an option. He has a tree there. I had no tree to ignite. In this instance, the car just burned... nothing more. But for the sake of argument, say that car set the whole friggen neighborhood on fire... who would pay?

    The man who owns the car? Well, he did have insurance, but not nearly enough for this. Go after him? Really? Are all the neighbors expected to pay? My guess is that is what we pay fire insurance premiums for... accidents ... cause I know good and well that guy did not set his own car on fire just for the fun of it.

    Would I want to go after a family going to see grandma but had their car engine ignite? Well, could happen... And only God knows what can happen to something like a Tesla should one of its lithium packs go... I do not mean to troll or diss Tesla... I think the whole scenario is highly unlikely, but possible.

    I feel this is one of the reasons we pay taxes to support public firefighting on public land.

    This hypothetical family had no intention whatsoever of doing what hypothetically happened. Now, if they knew they were driving a car leaking gasoline, hell yes, I would go after them. What about these adventurers that get themselves into trouble and fire off rescue missions - I would go after them for rescue costs... as they had the choice of whether or not to put themselves into a precarious spot for the sport of it. If they like to do that sort of thing, I feel they oughta have insurance for that. I admit I am fed up with having my tax monies spent to rescue rich sunzabitchez enjoying dangerous sport on the taxpayer dime.

    There is some legal phrase meaning "the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty"... "mens rea" I believe its called. That went out?

    Heavens no, I do mean to fuss at you... your links are very informative and brought these questions/situations to mind, and thought I would run them up the flagpole for comment.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
    Starting Score:    1  point
    Moderation   +2  
       Interesting=2, Total=2
    Extra 'Interesting' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   3  
  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by tonyPick on Saturday March 10 2018, @10:29AM (2 children)

    by tonyPick (1237) on Saturday March 10 2018, @10:29AM (#650484) Homepage Journal

    There is some legal phrase meaning "the act is not culpable unless the mind is guilty"... "mens rea" I believe its called. That went out?

    Yep, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea. [wikipedia.org]

    However I believe here we're wandering into Tort [wikipedia.org] Law, which is a part of civil law where (as per wikipedia):

    ... it is usually not necessary to prove a subjective mental element to establish liability for breach of contract or tort, for example. But if a tort is intentionally committed or a contract is intentionally breached, such intent may increase the scope of liability and the damages payable to the plaintiff.

    However I Am Not A Lawyer, and the details probably vary extensively based on jursidiction so as to how the rest of your hypothetical goes, I have no idea, outside of a quick googling which seems to suggest that "It depends":
    https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/baytown-news/article/Know-Your-Rights-Neighbor-not-liable-for-damage-1841622.php [chron.com]

    (I'd guess in the hypothetical the fact he deliberately moved the fire from his to your property to yours might be significant, since someone could argue that he deliberately put other peoples property at risk to save his own, but as I said IA (still) NAL. Now throw in the on-fire-car moving across state lines and through a forest and I suspect the insurance company lawyers could be arguing with each other over that one for years...)

    • (Score: 1) by anubi on Saturday March 10 2018, @12:36PM (1 child)

      by anubi (2828) on Saturday March 10 2018, @12:36PM (#650500) Journal

      Interesting. Thanks!

      At the time that car fire happened, I was not about to quibble... I was out with my garden hose trying my best to see to it that I had everything all wet down.

      My biggest fear his gasoline tank was going to rupture, the ignited fuel spilling down along the curb, mess up all the other cars parked along the curb, and KaBoom once it went into the culvert and was confined in the underground street drain. I could not get his fire out with it. It was under the hood in the engine compartment, and it would come back just as soon as I took the hose off of it, but I was trying to keep everything as cool as I could by keeping everything around there wet. When the fire department arrived, they had some sort of mister thing, and it was out in seconds.

      I was so relieved that his gasoline tank did not rupture.

      There were puddles of aluminum in the road when they left. It had definitely got hot in that engine compartment.

      If his big pine tree caught fire, we ALL would have been in big trouble. That was my big thing... keep that fire out of that pine tree. I have a eucalyptus tree nearby, and his pine tree would have certainly spread it to my eucalyptus.

      If we were unsuccessful, well, I figured that's why I have been paying all those fire insurance premiums. Crap happens. Luckily, nothing happened. It was a beautiful car too... seems like it was only a week old or so. A real Bummer.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @03:33PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @03:33PM (#650530)

        I've had a fire start due to a poorly adjusted carburetor once - you have to smother it with a jacket or blanket, water won't work. I burned up a brand new jacket, but saved the vehicle and quite possibly our lives (we were on the freeway in the countryside when it happened, no way the fire department could have saved us).

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @04:24PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 10 2018, @04:24PM (#650542)

    Like, just what do I do if my propane tank explodes or the valve flies apart at just the wrong moment? Not likely, but its possible.

    I suppose that depends. At least where I live, propane tanks are stamped with a certification date and are certified for 10 years after that date. Then they have to be recertified if you want to keep using them (this is not really worth it for barbecue tanks compared to just buying a new one).

    Realistically, propane systems are rather low pressure and are very safe if you don't do stupid shit, but if you are using one out of certification and something goes wrong then it is probably on you.