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posted by janrinok on Sunday March 11 2018, @01:42AM   Printer-friendly
from the life-goes-on dept.

The renamed TPP, the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership has been signed by 11 countries. https://globalnews.ca/news/4069924/tpp-trans-pacific-partnership-signing-canada/

Thankfully, Trump's withdrawal from the TPP allowed the Canadian people to persuade their government to push for removal of most of the contentious IP obligations that the US demanded, http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2017/11/rethinking-ip-in-the-tpp/. America is considering rejoining, https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/us/politics/mnuchin-tpp-trans-pacific-partnership-trump.html

The Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) will reduce tariffs in countries that together amount to more than 13 per cent of the global economy – a total of $10 trillion. With the United States, it would have represented 40 per cent.

Even without the United States, the deal will span a market of nearly 500 million people, making it one of the globe's three largest trade agreements, according to Chilean and Canadian trade statistics.

[...] Trump has also threatened to dump the North American Free Trade Agreement unless the other two members of the pact, Canada and Mexico, agree to provisions that Trump says would boost U.S. manufacturing and employment. He argues that the 1994 accord has caused the migration of jobs and factories southward to lower-cost Mexico.

[...] The 11 member countries are Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Sulla on Sunday March 11 2018, @03:07AM (9 children)

    by Sulla (5173) on Sunday March 11 2018, @03:07AM (#650746) Journal

    Always felt like the too-secret-to-read TTP would have been greatly beneficial to the people who are already wealthy and probably have made our defecit worse in the meantime. Why would the Chinese sign a deal that helps us when they are already doing a good job and having us send them money.

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    Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday March 11 2018, @06:33AM (3 children)

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday March 11 2018, @06:33AM (#650799) Homepage Journal

    The TPP is an Obama number. And it's a horrible deal. The ISDS, the investor-state dispute settlement, very smart lawyering. That one would have been great for our hedge funds, for our private equity, for so much of our financial industry. But overall the TPP is a disaster. A very bad deal to punish the United States, a rape of our country. It's ridiculous. I reversed it. It's a deal that was designed for China to come in, as they always do, through the back door and totally take advantage of everyone. If you look at the way China and India and almost everybody takes advantage of the United States -- China in particular, because they're so good. It's the number 1 abuser of this country. And if you look at the way they take advantage, it's through currency manipulation. It's not even discussed in the almost 6,000-page agreement. Incredible!

    As I said in Davos, I would do TPP if we were able to make a substantially better deal. The deal was terrible, the way it was structured was terrible. If we did a substantially better deal, I would be open to TPP. I like bilateral, because if you have a problem, you terminate. You don't have that same option with TPP.

    We’re going to stop the ridiculous trade deals that have taken everybody out of our country and taken companies out of our country, and it’s going to be reversed. I think you’re going to have a lot of companies come back to our country.

    A couple of people in the Republican party say Trump is against trade. I'm not against trade. I just want to make better deals. I think it's great. I think having trade is great. I want to make better deals.

    I'm always so amazed when I see somebody else talking about my viewpoints. My viewpoints are very simple: I want great deals for this country. Somebody said, "are you a free trader?" The answer is yes. But to have free trade we have to have smart people. We don't have smart people representing us. Or we have people who are controlled by the lobbyists, who are controlled by the special interests, by the global special interests. But, yes, I'm a free trader.

    But they say, "how do you define your stance on trade?" One of the reporters asked me this question and I said here's my stance on trading: I want to make great deals for the United States. Call it fair trade, call it free trade, there's 10 different names they can give it. I want to make great deals for the people of the United States. I want to bring jobs back. I don't want companies leaving because we don't know what we're doing.

    Why are people upset that with free trade, that I like, that I want to make better deals? I said I want to make better deals with Mexico. I want to make better deals with China. They say, "Oh, Trump is messing with free trade." No, I'm messing with bad deals that we can make good. I can make good deals. Why would somebody fight that?

    I mean, the U.S. Chamber fights. They say, "Oh, Trump wants to stop free trade." I don't want to stop free trade. I love free trade. But I want to make great deals. I want to take a deal that's faulty -- where we're losing hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars a year -- and make it good. Isn't that a positive thing? Okay? I'm fixing them. And if we can't fix them, there are consequences. We won't trade. And you know how long that will last? About 24 hours, before they come to the table. But you have to be able to walk. Every time you want to make a good deal you have to be able to walk. Or you don't have a country. Make America Great Again!

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @03:01PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @03:01PM (#650930)

      As usual the US is whining , after decades of screwing everyone , rejecting your own signature and pulling out of international treaties you come whining about the trade deals ? You got some balls . We just enjoy your whining as of late and laugh at you. Laugh cause you're getting screwed by Trump and beg for more. Well you elected him , deserve the worst that can happen to you for it. Tradewise , i hope you get left out of all the deals cause your signature carries no weight anymore. NONE .. You became the enemy of everyone , you want to have trade wars with everyone , well ok have them , noone cares about having the US as a partner. You guys screwed over everyone and think we're going to have any sympathy ? LOL ROFL
       

      • (Score: 1) by Sulla on Sunday March 11 2018, @03:44PM

        by Sulla (5173) on Sunday March 11 2018, @03:44PM (#650935) Journal

        A world where China is the superpower is going to be an interesting world. Better hope you are an authorized and recognized ethnicity or you might end up sterile. US control of the world hasn't been great, but when China is done with you there will be a whole lot of crow eating going on.

        --
        Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
    • (Score: 2) by Hyperturtle on Sunday March 11 2018, @04:39PM

      by Hyperturtle (2824) on Sunday March 11 2018, @04:39PM (#650952)

      You are very much out of character in regards to your writing style with this reply, but I wanted you to know that. Modding your post can't express that appropriately.

      You often nail it, but in this case you let the facts get in the way! Next time step away before submitting and review it again with your internal Trump narrative voice; it may be a good idea also to write it first in an offline document and judge the writing style when in different fonts, to better leap out at you what the differences are since the presentation may be much different.

      This way you can help catch the tone/narration and detect a presentation dissonance compared to other times, without focusing too much on the facts. Changing the font or layout in a seperate document will cause just enough difference to get your mind a little off-guard with how it looks different, rather than allowing you to focus too much on the technical accuracy of what you've written. I don't know if you can get 2nd opinions on what's written before its posted, but sometimes a small delay to make sure you're properly in character may be all that you'd need to catch stylization inconsistencies!

      Consistency isn't key, because as a leader you need to keep people guessing to some extent. If they figure you out, then you're a follower because you'd be predictable, following yourself if not other leaders. But familiarity/expectation setting is important, to keep it feeling like we're still talking to the same man, even if what the same man has said differs over time.

      That, or don't stay up so late, because it changes your personality too much! (and yeah bring the jobs back!)

  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @09:26AM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @09:26AM (#650862)

    too-secret-to-read TTP

    Are you just trolling or too stupid to google?

    https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/free-trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements-concluded-but-not-in-force/cptpp/comprehensive-and-progressive-agreement-for-trans-pacific-partnership-text/ [mfat.govt.nz]

    Why would the Chinese sign a deal that helps us when they are already doing a good job and having us send them money.

    Purpose was to have a trade deal with all economies in the region *EXCLUDING* China to put some economic pressure on China and reduce their leverage in the region. The deal was to leverage US economic impact in the region. Unfortunately, the current US administration and many of the people (like yourself, it seems) in America are too stupid to see this very basic reason. Nevertheless, it's now signed. And if new parties want to come in, they will have no negotiating power anymore.

    probably have made our defecit worse in the meantime

    Which deficit? Because Trump surely made your current account deficit worse. As for trade deficit, I agree, it needs to come down because now America is getting a FREE RIDE. USD is almost like the Bitcoin pyramid scheme - print dollars, get stuff for nothing. So yes, US trade deficit will come down along with your standard of living as you embrace isolationist tendencies. But like with any of these things, the chickens will come home to roost later and then you can blame Obama for starting a trade war (because you know, alternate reality rules in America these days)

    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @05:56PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @05:56PM (#650987)

      Are you just trolling or too stupid to google?

      The text was actually secret for a long time. Are you trolling or too stupid to remember that?

      Purpose was to have a trade deal with all economies in the region *EXCLUDING* China to put some economic pressure on China and reduce their leverage in the region.

      The purpose was corporate supremacy, which is why it included draconian copyright and patent provisions, as well as international corporate tribunals which would threaten the sovereignty of governments. I suspect you are indeed trolling. If our goal was simply to reduce their leverage, then we could do that without draconian copyright and patent rules, and without corporate tribunals. But the US government is too corrupt for that, so good riddance to the TPP in the US.

      • (Score: 2) by Fluffeh on Sunday March 11 2018, @09:18PM

        by Fluffeh (954) Subscriber Badge on Sunday March 11 2018, @09:18PM (#651080) Journal

        without draconian copyright and patent rules

        I found it rather amusing that the moment the US pulled out of the TPP, it's like those whole volume in the TPP dedicated to copyright and patents was simply thrown out. It's amazing how much the other nations were willing to offer up to be in the agreement. Clearly the cost to the nations of faffing about with all the copyright stuff was worth the price of the expanded free markets. Guess it also goes to show how far the US has fallen when their leaving the TPP no longer causes it to implode.

        If I were a foreign nation that wanted to see the US taken off its perch at the top of the world, I would want it done in such a way where most of the people in the US didn't even realise that anything had changed. So basically, just like Trump is doing. I really didn't think that it was possible to basically be destroying a country on the global scene while all the time chanting MAGA, but apparently I was wrong on that account.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @04:33PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 11 2018, @04:33PM (#650951)

    The problem with these trade deals is that they're designed to help the richest. And not only are they not designed with the poor in mind, typically, but they often target the poorest by removing a country's ability to protect their workers against unreasonable conduct. The WTO in particular was a bad idea as environmental and workplace safety regulations could be seen as illegal trade barriers.

    What's more, these trade deals are pretty much always better for countries behind the curve than those ahead as it makes it easier to offshore jobs to where labor is cheaper than what domestic workers can afford to work for.

  • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Sunday March 11 2018, @08:24PM

    by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Sunday March 11 2018, @08:24PM (#651047)

    The 11 member countries are Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.

    It's in the summary. China is not in the TPP.

    Of course the TPP is for the benefit of the wealthy, apparently they're going to use their huge wealth to create jobs or something.

    My country has wound up gaining bugger-all because we export food, and our "trading" partners love to use their taxpayer's money to prop up farmers.