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posted by martyb on Monday March 12 2018, @07:54PM   Printer-friendly
from the doo-dah-dee-dum-duum dept.

A group linked to Luis Elizondo, the former leader of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, as well as other former military and government officials, has released a video showing a 2015 UFO encounter involving U.S. Navy pilots:

A newly-released video which shows U.S. Navy pilots encountering an unidentified flying object (UFO) in 2015 has garnered calls for more research into what these mysterious objects could be. "What the f--- is that thing?" one pilot can be heard saying in the video. "Wow, what is that, man?" the pilot adds. "Look at that flying!"

The footage was released Friday by To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science (TTSA), a private scientific research and media group. It is led by Dr. Hal Puthoff, a NASA and U.S. Department of Defense adviser and James Semivan, a former U.S. Central Intelligence Agency service member. The clip is said to be "an authentic DoD video that captures the high-speed flight of an unidentified aircraft at low altitude" and "reveals a previously undisclosed Navy encounter that occurred off the East Coast in 2015," according to a statement from TTSA.

Editorial by Christopher Mellon, deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations

From my work with To the Stars Academy, which seeks to raise private funds to investigate incidents like the 2004 Nimitz encounter, I know they continue to occur, because we are being approached by military personnel who are concerned about national security and frustrated by how the Defense Department is handling such reports. I am also familiar with the evidence as a former Pentagon intelligence official and a consultant who began researching the issue after the Nimitz incident was brought to my attention. On several occasions, I have met with senior Pentagon officials, and at least one followed up and obtained briefings confirming incidents such as the Nimitz case. But nobody wants to be "the alien guy" in the national security bureaucracy; nobody wants to be ridiculed or sidelined for drawing attention to the issue. This is true up and down the chain of command, and it is a serious and recurring impediment to progress.

Also at USA Today and NextBigFuture.

Related: UFO Existence 'Proven Beyond Reasonable Doubt': Former Head Of Pentagon Program


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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by PartTimeZombie on Monday March 12 2018, @08:46PM (33 children)

    by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Monday March 12 2018, @08:46PM (#651519)

    I'm not really buying it either, except that the Cruiser's radar saw something also.

    The article was written by a man with a conflict of interest as he seems to represent a company looking to get some sweet sweet taxpayer's money to "study" this.

    I would love it to be aliens, but it probably isn't.

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  • (Score: 2, Funny) by tftp on Monday March 12 2018, @09:24PM

    by tftp (806) on Monday March 12 2018, @09:24PM (#651531) Homepage
    That's what a tribe of hunter-gatherers will be saying when we visit their planet and start exploring it, flying lots of automatic and human-operated antigravity crafts.
  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Monday March 12 2018, @09:26PM (31 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Monday March 12 2018, @09:26PM (#651532) Journal

    Conflict of interest. That's something of a bitch, isn't it? The empirical "evidence" sometimes seem overwhelming. So very many people have see "flying saucers", and a reasonable number of them seem credible. But, who to believe? The whole thing, starting with the foo fighters in our grandparent's day, COULD BE just one big conspiracy, awaiting the proper time to unfold. Not that I believe that, but it's almost as reasonable as some other theories. (We've already had a line of discussion here in this thread mocking the anal probe people.)

    People like us have no idea WHO to believe, let alone WHAT to believe. And, I presume that is exactly the way Gubbermint wants it.

    The idea that all these things are supernatural manifestations of the devil and demons is kind of appealing. The sort of creatures you find in Washington would have no problem consorting with Satan.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @09:50PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 12 2018, @09:50PM (#651544)

      generally speaking, people don't go out of the to spend money, time and resources to deliberately create a result that works against their interests. So there is no conflict unless their interests are not their own? If so, whose interests are they?

      If it is a common interest, one that they you and me all share, no one does that anymore because then its called fake news if there is no corporate or political sponsor directly tied to it.

    • (Score: 5, Insightful) by FatPhil on Monday March 12 2018, @10:26PM (29 children)

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday March 12 2018, @10:26PM (#651555) Homepage
      You don't find it weird that now everyone's got a 10MP camera in their pocket there are fewer and fewer sightings of UFOs? The best images we have are the ones of the flying soup bowl and dustbin lid from the 50s.
      --
      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2, Interesting) by ilPapa on Monday March 12 2018, @10:36PM (24 children)

        by ilPapa (2366) on Monday March 12 2018, @10:36PM (#651560) Journal

        You don't find it weird that now everyone's got a 10MP camera in their pocket there are fewer and fewer sightings of UFOs?

        The number of UFO sightings has gone up. It's more than three times higher than it was in 1990.

        Here's a guy who's made some visualizations of the data from NUFORC, a national database of reported sightings.

        https://vizthis.wordpress.com/2017/02/21/i-want-to-believe-ufo-sightings-around-the-world/ [wordpress.com]

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
        • (Score: 5, Interesting) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:27AM (23 children)

          by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:27AM (#651594) Homepage

          The number of reports of UFO sightings has gone up. As the author says, though not in the context I'm using it:

          Maybe it’s related to Internet access. You have to have Internet access to submit a report, after all.

          The explosion in reports coincides fairly nicely with the explosion of the internet through the 90s. People communicate more and on a more global scale than ever before since the arrival of the internet. It's far easier to report a UFO sighting than it ever has been before. People who would never have bothered to pick up the phone or write a letter feel no compunction against filling in an online form or clicking a few buttons.

          The point about the ubiquity of cameras against the continuing paucity of decent evidence is well made and still stands.

          --
          systemd is Roko's Basilisk
          • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:36AM

            by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @12:36AM (#651598) Homepage

            I should add that the internet also makes it far easier for the National UFO Reprting Center, which some would say may not be entirely objective on this matter (and is not government-run, as the name might suggest), to solicit said reports in the first place.

            --
            systemd is Roko's Basilisk
          • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:38AM (20 children)

            by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:38AM (#651620) Journal

            The explosion in reports coincides fairly nicely with the explosion of the internet through the 90s.

            Right, people didn't have access to electronic communications before 1990. MUFON has been collecting and investigating sightings since 1968...by telephone.

            But at least we're making progress here. First, it was "why are there so many fewer sightings today" and we've at least now gotten to, "well, there are lots more sightings today but that's only because people weren't able to communicate before 1990".

            Pop skeptics always got an excuse. Always. They're never able to say, "I dunno", or even, "we need more information". They just refer to their well-worn list of excuses.

            --
            You are still welcome on my lawn.
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:56AM (7 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:56AM (#651779) Journal

              Pop skeptics always got an excuse. Always. They're never able to say, "I dunno", or even, "we need more information". They just refer to their well-worn list of excuses.

              The problem here is if it doesn't passes the "well-worn list", then it just isn't evidence in the first place. At that point, you're just wasting the time of those "pop skeptics". For example, we have here a 30 second video with little context to it with the alleged UFO being just a blurry oval.

              Right, people didn't have access to electronic communications before 1990.

              It's not the communications that has changed. It's the fact that so many people are carrying cell phones with built in cameras.

              • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:33PM (6 children)

                by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:33PM (#651892) Journal

                It's not the communications that has changed. It's the fact that so many people are carrying cell phones with built in cameras.

                That's the point, khallow. The original post said, "With all the cameras in cell phones, why have reported UFO sightings gone down?" In fact, they not only did not "go down" but they've increased three-fold.

                You will hear pop skeptics say this all the time: "People have cell phones, so why aren't there more UFO sightings reported?" when they know very well the number of sightings has increased. This is the influence of the Amazing Randi, Penn&Teller school of faux skepticism: never argue in good faith, and never, ever really be skeptical of anything. Certainty bordering on religious fervor is the opposite of skepticism.

                --
                You are still welcome on my lawn.
                • (Score: 3, Interesting) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:54PM (1 child)

                  by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:54PM (#651900) Homepage

                  It's rather telling, still, that the amount and quality of actual evidence doesn't seem to have kept up with the increase in reports, nor with the ubiquity of devices that could gather such evidence.

                  --
                  systemd is Roko's Basilisk
                  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:50PM

                    by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:50PM (#651931) Journal

                    It's rather telling, still, that the amount and quality of actual evidence doesn't seem to have kept up with the increase in reports, nor with the ubiquity of devices that could gather such evidence.

                    And you're basing that on what data, exactly?

                    --
                    You are still welcome on my lawn.
                • (Score: 2, Informative) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:11PM (3 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:11PM (#651971) Journal

                  That's the point, khallow. The original post said, "With all the cameras in cell phones, why have reported UFO sightings gone down?" In fact, they not only did not "go down" but they've increased three-fold.

                  Actually no one said that. That earlier post [soylentnews.org] spoke of "sightings of UFOs" not "reported sightings of UFOs". I don't consider the latter to be representative of the actual number of supposed sightings of UFOs (particularly, since it's just US residents reporting UFOs - 300 times as many reports by roughly 4% of the global population means over 90% are coming from the US - probably from a small minority of the population as well).

                  Here's the actual post:

                  You don't find it weird that now everyone's got a 10MP camera in their pocket there are fewer and fewer sightings of UFOs? The best images we have are the ones of the flying soup bowl and dustbin lid from the 50s.

                  To give you an idea of the problem here, we have amateurs imaging [nasa.gov] satellites in orbit to several meter resolution. We have somewhere around 15-25% of the entire world population carrying a cell phone, most with a camera attached. So where's the high quality photos of those UFOs?

                  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:25PM (2 children)

                    by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:25PM (#652010) Journal

                    That earlier post [soylentnews.org] spoke of "sightings of UFOs" not "reported sightings of UFOs".

                    If he's not talking about reported sightings, then how does he know there are fewer and fewer of them?

                    --
                    You are still welcome on my lawn.
                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:27PM (1 child)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:27PM (#652050) Journal
                      He already mentioned one way, high quality pictures of the alleged UFOs. If we're not getting them despite the alleged surge in reported sightings, then are we really getting an increase in reported sightings?
                      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Wednesday March 14 2018, @02:11AM

                        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Wednesday March 14 2018, @02:11AM (#652115) Homepage
                        Thank you for taking my somewhat hastily typed out argument and fleshing it out properly.
                        --
                        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
            • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:52PM (11 children)

              by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @05:52PM (#651899) Homepage

              But at least we're making progress here. First, it was "why are there so many fewer sightings today" and we've at least now gotten to, "well, there are lots more sightings today but that's only because people weren't able to communicate before 1990".

              Again, you've overlooked the overwhelmingly important operative word here - reported sightings.

              For what it's worth, I don't agree that there are lots more sightings these days. I also never said or implied that people couldn't communicate before 1990. Stop being silly.

              Right, people didn't have access to electronic communications before 1990. MUFON has been collecting and investigating sightings since 1968...by telephone.

              And before that they could have done so by telegram, letter, smoke signal. The point is that the internet makes communication far, far easier. We've become much more used to communicating in this way. We'd never be having this discussion at all if not for the internet.

              The number of people that I communicate with in other countries has skyrocketed since the spread of the internet. It doesn't mean there are that many more people in those other countries than there were 20 years ago.

              --
              systemd is Roko's Basilisk
              • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:55PM (10 children)

                by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @06:55PM (#651932) Journal

                And before that they could have done so by telegram, letter, smoke signal. The point is that the internet makes communication far, far easier. We've become much more used to communicating in this way. We'd never be having this discussion at all if not for the internet.

                Ah, but the contention is not about "having this discussion", it's about reporting UFO sightings.

                How much easier is it to go to a website and fill out a rather extensive online form than it is to make a phone call? Is it easier by a factor of three?

                The easiest thing of all is to say "I'm a skeptic" and, "the number of UFO sightings has decreased even though we have cell phones!". Blind belief is always easier than doing a little research before making a pronouncement.

                --
                You are still welcome on my lawn.
                • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:12PM (6 children)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:12PM (#651973) Journal

                  How much easier is it to go to a website and fill out a rather extensive online form than it is to make a phone call?

                  It would be cheaper, let us note. And how will you find the phone number? Look at the website for contact information.

                  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:23PM (5 children)

                    by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:23PM (#652009) Journal

                    It would be cheaper, let us note. And how will you find the phone number? Look at the website for contact information.

                    You're right, khallow. Prior to 1990, it was impossible for anyone to find a phone number. Too bad no one thought to create some sort of book, with pages, maybe make them yellow, and list phone numbers there.

                    How did we even live before the internet?

                    --
                    You are still welcome on my lawn.
                    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:21PM (4 children)

                      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:21PM (#652048) Journal

                      You're right, khallow. Prior to 1990, it was impossible for anyone to find a phone number.

                      Because something is either easy or impossible, amirite?

                      Let's consider the workflow here. Pre-1990, one would bug an operator or a librarian to get said long distance number. Maybe they'd have access to one of the USENET groups and post their question there. Eventually after consider effort and luck, they'd get the phone number and then pay a few bucks to call in.

                      Post-1990? Yahoo's hierarchy system and probably eventually Geocities. Now, they just google it and either drop an email or fill out a web form.

                      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Wednesday March 14 2018, @12:57AM (3 children)

                        by ilPapa (2366) on Wednesday March 14 2018, @12:57AM (#652089) Journal

                        Let's consider the workflow here. Pre-1990, one would bug an operator or a librarian to get said long distance number.

                        Actually, no. The pre-1990 workflow started with looking in a great big book that everybody had. It was called a "phone book", and yes, MUFON was in the phone book.

                        --
                        You are still welcome on my lawn.
                        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 14 2018, @03:57AM (2 children)

                          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 14 2018, @03:57AM (#652144) Journal

                          MUFON was in the phone book

                          There was no "the" phone book, but many phone books unique to each region and municipality. MUFON would not be in every phone book.

                          • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Wednesday March 14 2018, @04:55AM (1 child)

                            by ilPapa (2366) on Wednesday March 14 2018, @04:55AM (#652155) Journal

                            There was no "the" phone book, but many phone books unique to each region and municipality. MUFON would not be in every phone book.

                            Believe it or not, it was in most phone books in the 800- section (there actually was one).

                            But generally, people who reported UFOs back then called their local police, who didn't want to deal with it so they passed the calls on to MUFON by giving out their phone number. One of the first things that MUFON after they were formed was liaise with local law enforcement down to county sheriff's and local municipal police.

                            Even the extremely popular "real" UFO TV shows of the 1980s and early 90s would show the MUFON number at the end of every episode.

                            --
                            You are still welcome on my lawn.
                            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday March 14 2018, @07:26AM

                              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday March 14 2018, @07:26AM (#652196) Journal

                              But generally, people who reported UFOs back then called their local police, who didn't want to deal with it so they passed the calls on to MUFON by giving out their phone number. One of the first things that MUFON after they were formed was liaise with local law enforcement down to county sheriff's and local municipal police.

                              Definitely just as simple as googling for their website.

                • (Score: 2) by wonkey_monkey on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:29PM (2 children)

                  by wonkey_monkey (279) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @09:29PM (#652012) Homepage

                  Ah, but the contention is not about "having this discussion", it's about reporting UFO sightings.

                  Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise perfectly valid and useful analogies weren't allowed.

                  How much easier is it to go to a website and fill out a rather extensive online form than it is to make a phone call? Is it easier by a factor of three?

                  Before the internet, a lot of people wouldn't even have known where to look to find out who to report a UFO sighting to. It would just have become a weird tale told down at the bar.

                  The easiest thing of all is to say "I'm a skeptic" and, "the number of UFO sightings has decreased even though we have cell phones!". Blind belief is always easier than doing a little research before making a pronouncement.

                  I didn't say either of those things. The point I'm discussing is whether sightings - as opposed to reports of sightings, and reports to one specific organisation at that* - have risen.

                  What the poster who mentioned cell phones was saying was not said altogether clearly by his own admission, but as long as you're not a zealous pedant (and I say that as a pretty zealous pedant myself) it's pretty obvious what was meant and that it is a sage observation.

                  ------------

                  *To somewhat reiterate a point further up, the rise in reports to this one particular organisation could be solely down to the rise of said organisation's visibility (self-promoted or otherwise). If, say, a fast food chain reports that they've got 10 times as many customers as they did last year, do you assume it's because of a change in eating habits, or might you instead consider that it's because the chain opened 9 more locations?

                  --
                  systemd is Roko's Basilisk
                  • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:11PM (1 child)

                    by ilPapa (2366) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @11:11PM (#652043) Journal

                    Before the internet, a lot of people wouldn't even have known where to look to find out who to report a UFO sighting to.

                    The 1980s were something of a golden age for ufo data collection. With the 1977 release of Close Encounters and E.T. in 1982, there was no decade with a higher awareness of UFOs among the general public. I'll bet more people knew what MUFON was in the 1980s than know about it today.

                    I didn't say either of those things. The point I'm discussing is whether sightings - as opposed to reports of sightings, and reports to one specific organisation at that* - have risen.

                    If they're not reported, then how are you going to count them? How do you go about comparing unreported sightings by decade? Telepathy? I thought you were a skeptic.

                    --
                    You are still welcome on my lawn.
          • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:07AM

            by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:07AM (#651723) Homepage
            Actually it wasn't well made - you made what I was trying to say far clearer than I did, thank you.
            --
            Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 2) by romlok on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:03AM

        by romlok (1241) on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:03AM (#651608)

        Whenever humans discover some new place to research, there has been an immediate flurry of activity as all and sundry go for a look, take measurements, and gather samples. After a while, most of the important observations have been made, papers have been published, and natural history museums populated. So the number of researchers needed on-site tapers off, with only those doing longer-term studies returning with any regularity.

        Perhaps the grants for researching humanity all but ran out after the 60s?

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:28AM (2 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @02:28AM (#651633) Journal

        A cursory search seems to contradict your claim that there are fewer sightings today. One link claims that there are fewer sightings in Italy, while the remainder of the hits on different combinations of search terms seem to show an increase. I wonder if your claim of fewer sightings is just a perception, based on the fact that the news stations don't push those stories. Have you looked at Youtube? Mexico City had something strange in their skies, March third, this year. Another in Rio de Janeiro in January, 2018.

        Of course, browsing the results of a Youtube search for ufo sightings, you'll find an awful lot of just plain stupid bullshit. There are no filters on Youtube, or on news sources, for credibility.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:10AM (1 child)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Tuesday March 13 2018, @08:10AM (#651725) Homepage
          I should have included the adjective "credible" or should I say "not immediately dismissable" in my statement, I apologise. People are communicating a thousand times more, it's natural that the UFO babble in the noise floor would be increased proportionally too. But *we're missing the photos/videos* - which should be 10 times higher resolution than they were before. Maybe those clever aliens know about our camphones, and are deliberately staying 10 times further away from the potential observers?

          Aliens!
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:45PM

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday March 13 2018, @01:45PM (#651810) Journal

            staying 10 times further away from the potential observers?

            That's probably it. I mean, they've got to be pretty smart to fly here from wherever the hell they flew in from.

            "Oh, looky, Brzzldip, the humans have smartphones now! Isn't it cute? We obsoleted our smartphones about 30 millenia ago, and they have just discovered them!"