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posted by cmn32480 on Thursday March 15 2018, @01:42PM   Printer-friendly
from the as-I-was-sa-SQUIRREL! dept.

Submitted via IRC for TheMightyBuzzard

The textbook symptoms of ADD — inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity — fail to reflect several of its most powerful characteristics; the ones that shape your perceptions, emotions, and motivation. Here, Dr. William Dodson explains how to recognize and manage ADHD's true defining features.

The DSM-V – the bible of psychiatric diagnosis – lists 18 diagnostic criteria for attention deficit disorder (ADHD or ADD). Clinicians use this to identify symptoms, insurance companies use it to determine coverage, and researchers use it to determine areas of worthwhile study.

The problem: These criteria only describe how ADHD affects children ages 6-12, and that has led to misdiagnosis, misunderstanding, and failed treatment for teens, adults, and the elderly.

Most people, clinicians included, have only a vague understanding of what ADHD means. They assume it equates to hyperactivity and poor focus, mostly in children. They are wrong.

When we step back and ask, "What does everyone with ADHD have in common, that people without ADHD don't experience?" a different set of symptoms take shape.

From this perspective, three defining features of ADHD emerge that explain every aspect of the condition:
1. an interest-based nervous system
2. emotional hyperarousal
3. rejection sensitivity

Not precisely news but damned if it's not an interesting read if it has any relevance in your life.

Source: https://www.additudemag.com/symptoms-of-add-hyperarousal-rejection-sensitivity/


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  • (Score: 4, Insightful) by VLM on Thursday March 15 2018, @02:38PM (57 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 15 2018, @02:38PM (#652947)

    I read the link. Its interesting how "ADHD, Primarily Hyperactive-Impulsive Type" is pretty much "we're annoyed at him behaving like a stereotypical little boy"

    Its an interesting intersection of politics and sociology. I'm not necessarily saying the docs are wrong, but its interesting that "boys will be boys" has been codified into a disease.

    An analogy would be you could define normal as white skinned, and melanin concentration in the skin as a purely medical problem that's treatable with extreme measures such as skin bleaching.

    Or an even better analogy would be to turn around the victim and define normal as being male, and therefore females are medically malfunctioning by definition and should be medicated and not have the right to vote etc.

    Another interesting way to phrase "ADHD, Primarily Hyperactive-Impulsive Type" without using a group identification like "little boy" would be to describe the root causes, extroversion and motivation. I don't think you can be observed to be extroverted and motivated without being diagnosed with "ADHD, Primarily Hyperactive-Impulsive Type", its darn near 1:1 mapping.

    Starting Score:    1  point
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    Extra 'Insightful' Modifier   0  
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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @03:00PM (6 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @03:00PM (#652952)

    Should we disallow people with history of mental illnesses from participating in society? Clearly they are ill, it would be cruel to expect them to behave.
    :)

    • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday March 15 2018, @05:49PM (5 children)

      by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 15 2018, @05:49PM (#653018) Journal

      A way to guide their behavior

      • Don't allow mentally ill people to participate in society
      • Disenfranchise them
      • Remove all avenues to seek treatment -- unless they happen to be rich
      • Make sure it is easier for them to buy guns than to buy alcohol
      --
      People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
      • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @06:08PM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @06:08PM (#653030)

        A way to guide their behavior

                Don't allow mentally ill people to participate in society
                Disenfranchise them
                Remove all avenues to seek treatment -- unless they happen to be rich
                Make sure it is easier for them to buy guns than to buy alcohol

        No. That's too expensive. We need to cut spending and taxes if we're ever going to have the free market utopia the deserving (read: rich) are supposed to have.

        Get rid of Social Security. Get rid of Medicaid and Medicare. The same for food stamps, welfare, unemployment insurance, long-term disability and any other program that allows the worthless (read: poor) to sponge off the worthwhile.

        Ban homeless shelters, public schools and any state funded universities.

        Medical care should only be for those who can pay. Cash on the barrelhead. No exceptions.

        Anyone who can't show the means to pay for children must sterilized before puberty. Anyone (and their immediate family) who violates this law would be subject to summary execution.

        No more prisons. If you are suspected of a crime, summary execution, unless you can prove that you have a net worth of more than US$5,000,000.00. Otherwise, it's off with your head. No appeals. No lawyers. No judges. No wasted time for worthwhile people sitting on juries.

        Either you have the means, or you're just dead weight and need to be removed from society. Permanently.

        Once we straighten all this out, we can create the wonderful world that the people who are worth a damn are supposed to have.

        Let's make that Article V convention happen!

        Some may think that the above is overly harsh, but it's not. The worthless ones aren't really human anyway. And if they realize what a burden they are on actual humans, they'll beg for the sweet release of death. If they're not smart enough to realize this, they are obviously too stupid to live. It's a win/win!

        • (Score: 2) by Bobs on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:57PM

          by Bobs (1462) on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:57PM (#653079)

          An excellent plan that works for everybody.

          Everybody who matters.

          /sarc

        • (Score: 2) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday March 15 2018, @09:26PM

          by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday March 15 2018, @09:26PM (#653115)

          I tried to mod this comment +1 Terrifying

        • (Score: 2) by NotSanguine on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:06PM

          by NotSanguine (285) <NotSanguineNO@SPAMSoylentNews.Org> on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:06PM (#653158) Homepage Journal

          Proposal for 18USC63 [cornell.edu]

          Submitted as HR666 by House Speaker Paul D. Ryan.
          Bill Titile: Fight Unwanted Creeps, Kooks, Tramps, Homeless, Effing Punks, and Obsequious, Obtuse Retards (FUCKTHEPOOR) Act of 2018.

          New section 1352:
          Whoever commits fraud against the United States by being shiftless, lazy, unemployed or ungrateful for their existence (unless they can document a personal net worth greater than or equal to US$750,000.00, in which case they are exempt from this section) shall be subject to the following penalties:

          (1) Shiftless or lazy persons, defined as being unwilling to work due to lack of ambition, sloth, lack of skills, illness, injury, verbal/physical/sexual harassment or discrimination shall be sterilized immediately.

          Should such persons not remediate these issues within 120 days, they shall be put to death. No appeals or clemency is permitted.

          (2) Any person (having reached the age of nine years) must be employed and working at least 62 hours per week. Should such person's working hours drop below 50 hours for more than four weeks, they shall be sterilized and beaten severely with a club. Such a person then has two weeks to bring their working hours (no time is allowed for medical care due to injuries from the required beating) back up to at least 62 hours. Should a person fail to do so, they shall be put to death.

          If such a person meets the work hours requirement within the allotted two weeks, if they do not maintain those working hours consistently for at least five years, they shall be put to death. If a person has maintained those working hours for at least five years and once again falls below the required working hours for four weeks, they shall once again be beaten, and if they have nor remediated the situation within two weeks, they shall be put to death.

          No appeals or clemency is permitted

          (3) If a person is ungrateful for their existence, whether it be complaining about their "harsh" treatment, "poor" working conditions, "insufficient" remuneration or a general dissatisfaction with their lives, they will be immediately sterilized, but may publicly repudiate such statements once. IF they do not publicly repudiate such statements, they shall be severely beaten with a club, then put to death. If such a public repudiation is made and further such statements are made, such a person will be beaten severely with a club.

          Should such a person make any further, similar statements, they shall be put to death. No appeals or clemency is permitted.

          (4) Should any such person ever sanctioned under this section (unless they have already been put to death) increase their personal net worth to be greater than or equal to US$750,000.00, they shall be absolved of all previous infractions, and the state shall put to death 25 persons* of their choosing.

          *Such persons may not include any who have a personal net worth greater than or equal to US$750,000.00.

          (5) Violations of this section will not be reviewed by any court. Sentences will be carried out within six hours of their registration with the regional Societal Upgrade Control Investigative Team (SUCkIT).

          --
          No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:45PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:45PM (#653074)

        In fact, take away the last one, make suicide the only allowed option. They'll soon clear away.

  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by meustrus on Thursday March 15 2018, @03:01PM (22 children)

    by meustrus (4961) on Thursday March 15 2018, @03:01PM (#652953)

    Except that if you read the link, or even the end of the summary, it would be clear that the symptoms that you are talking about are incorrect for ADHD diagnosis. Yeah, boys will be boys...and there was a period of time where that got them misdiagnosed with ADHD due to helicopter parents shopping for a medical diagnosis to explain their active little boys not fitting into the sit-down academic culture they think is best.

    That doesn't change the fact that girls and adults can have ADHD too, not to mention boys that don't fit the stereotype. In fact, according to TFA, only "25% of children and 5% of adults" with ADHD fit this stereotype:

    2. Emotional Hyperarousal
    What is emotional hyperarousal?

    Most people expect ADHD to create visible hyperactivity. This only occurs in 25% of children and 5% of adults. The rest experience an internal feeling of hyperarousal.

    --
    If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
    • (Score: 3, Troll) by Azuma Hazuki on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:20PM (21 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:20PM (#653061) Journal

      Don't let the facts get in the way of a good straight-white-male persecution complex whinge 9_9

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @10:53PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @10:53PM (#653154)

        It won't stop straight white males from getting together in their garages and revolutionizing the world (yet again).

        Once I realized that, I stopped getting all hot and bothered by your kind of trolling.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @12:21AM (19 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @12:21AM (#653204)

        Women are counter-revolutionary

        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday March 16 2018, @12:53AM (18 children)

          I dunno about that but they're damned sure counter-intuitive.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday March 17 2018, @01:00AM (17 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday March 17 2018, @01:00AM (#653888) Journal

            Other women make a hell of a lot more sense to me than men do. Maybe we're not "counter-intuitive." Maybe your intuition's broken, or never worked in the first place. Or maybe you're one of those guys who's so obsessed with his own manliness he never learned to relate to the other 51% of the human race.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 17 2018, @02:15AM (16 children)

              by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 17 2018, @02:15AM (#653907) Homepage Journal

              Or maybe men's and women's brains just function very differently. Let's check what science says... Yup, they do.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday March 17 2018, @02:47AM (15 children)

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday March 17 2018, @02:47AM (#653917) Journal

                "Very" differently? Links and citations, please, and by "citation" I don't mean the latest drivel put out by some "Christian" apologist masquerading as a child psychologist. You're weasel-wording again...

                --
                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 17 2018, @06:05AM (1 child)

                  by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 17 2018, @06:05AM (#653975)

                  I don't care for TMB, but you're one to talk. Perhaps you could provide some real citations for men not being oppressed when you post such bullshit. By basically every imaginable measure American men are doing worse than American women are.

                  So yes, American women are more or less counter any sense of reason as they continue to claim that they're being oppressed even though there's no evidence of it. Women being shitty to each other is not oppression.

                  • (Score: 2, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday March 17 2018, @03:10PM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday March 17 2018, @03:10PM (#654087) Journal

                    Up yours, troll. Whatever oppression men are facing is almost entirely caused *by other men.* It's not women who start wars, gamble with the entire US economy in that giant casino known as Wall Street, drop nuclear and chemical and biological Hell on other people, or even who commit most crimes. Men suffer almost entirely at the hands of other men, and the fact that some of it is because you idiots think one-upping each other is a way to get women just makes your whinging all the more pathetic.

                    Yes, American men are doing badly. Stop and ask yourself why and whose fault that is. If your knee-jerk response is to blame women, congratulations: you're a useful idiot for the real criminals and they've played you like the proverbial damn fiddle.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                • (Score: 1, Troll) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday March 17 2018, @11:21AM (12 children)

                  by The Mighty Buzzard (18) Subscriber Badge <themightybuzzard@proton.me> on Saturday March 17 2018, @11:21AM (#654022) Homepage Journal

                  Darlin, when a neurologist can take the Pepsi Challenge with a brain MRI and tell you whether the subject is male or female without having so much as a hint ahead of time, you're just wrong. Admit it and move on.

                  You're also essentially stating that trans people are just weirdos who could decide any time they like to not be trans if you don't acknowledge that particular fact. Feminist dogma and support for trans folk's position cannot logically exist in the same mind.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday March 17 2018, @03:06PM (11 children)

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday March 17 2018, @03:06PM (#654086) Journal

                    Hey, dipfuck, the two sexes' brains still produce roughly the same type and magnitude general intelligence ("g"), though I question that somewhat in your case. The structural differences, most notably amount and distribution of grey vs white matter and the inter-hemispheric vs intra-hemispheric connection ratio, aren't the same thing as even the difference between H. sapiens and P. troglodytes brains. Women aren't aliens. Human brains are easily recognizable as human brains.

                    And what the hell do trans* people have to do with this? TERF dogma is incompatible with them, yes, but TERF dogma is incompatible with plenty of other parts of observable reality too. It's the brain scan data I've found that made me *not* a TERF, because it seems trans* people really *do* have some of the brain development and organization of the sex they believe they ought to have been born.

                    It's clear you have little or no understanding of neuroscience or, for that matter, feminism. We already suspected as much but thanks for confirming it.

                    --
                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday March 18 2018, @10:49AM (10 children)

                      Hey, dipfuck, the two sexes' brains still produce roughly the same type and magnitude general intelligence

                      No, they don't. Men are distributed more evenly over the IQ spectrum while women are statistically crowded more towards the median. Which is to say you internal plumbing types have both significantly less geniuses and significantly less retards.

                      But that was never a statement I made in the first place. It was just your strawman. Excuse me, strawperson. What I said is that our brains function differently. And they provably do. So much so that a competent neurologist can tell which is which simply by watching what lights up in the brain in response to various stimuli. It's indisputable science and you're just going to have to live with it.

                      And what the hell do trans* people have to do with this?

                      Only that it is logically impossible to claim there are no significant differences between the male and female minds as a feminist and then claim there are in order to support trans folks. If there are no real differences then it is not possible to be a woman trapped in a man's body or vice versa. If there are then you've just shot down a lot of your own feminist garbage.

                      --
                      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                      • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday March 18 2018, @03:21PM (9 children)

                        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday March 18 2018, @03:21PM (#654489) Journal

                        Actually, Uzzard, the fact that there *are* differences between the two sexes' brains is what led me away from potentially becoming a TERF all those years ago. The differences aren't as pronounced as you think, is my point; you treat women as if we're some kind of alien life form, far out of proportion to what differences actually exist, and your constant bitching about "feminist garbage" only underscores the point here, that all this angst and asspain is coming from you not doing well with women in one way or another.

                        Yes, there are differences between male and female minds. No, they aren't enough for you to act and talk like this. The sexes still produce about the same general intelligence, though yes, as you pointed out, men tend to be the outliers. How much of that is nature and how much is nurture is an interesting and debatable subject, one I'm not sure we have any data on yet. I've taken to thinking of the Y chromosome as something like a set of slightly-unstable patches against the source tree of the human genome, one which potentially provides greater performance in certain areas for the tradeoff of decreased stability and interoperability in others.

                        --
                        I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday March 20 2018, @11:21AM (8 children)

                          you treat women as if we're some kind of alien life form, far out of proportion to what differences actually exist

                          Not really. I just acknowledge that the differences exist. Now I may joke about the sexes being utterly unable to understand each other but that's both hyperbole and humor that every heterosexual person can identify with once they've started dating.

                          There are some fundamental differences though that, though minor relative to our similarities, can cause major issues. Watch a group of guys working some time if you want to see some of them in action. The social dynamics have some significant differences vs. a group of women working together. Which is a big part of why we've had so much strife going on with the integration of the sexes into the work force.

                          I'm not even convinced men and women can ever work well together as interchangeable cogs in a labor pool. We've been trying it now for several decades and it has yet to stabilize and give us good, solid examples of how it should be done. It may be possible but I guarantee you the way towards success is not going to be either how women currently think it should or how men currently think it should. It simply isn't something that physical or social evolution has solved yet.

                          I've taken to thinking of the Y chromosome as something like a set of slightly-unstable patches against the source tree of the human genome, one which potentially provides greater performance in certain areas for the tradeoff of decreased stability and interoperability in others.

                          Which is essentially setting women as the baseline. Understandable since you're in fact a woman but not in any way rational or reasonable being as you lot with the nice pairs (of X chromosomes) are absolutely as unstable and antisocial as any man, only in different ways. Realistically we'd both be unstable patch sets that make up for each other's shortcomings with the trunk never actually being used.

                          --
                          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                          • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday March 20 2018, @02:43PM (7 children)

                            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday March 20 2018, @02:43PM (#655402) Journal

                            Heh...you know what someone with only an X chromosome is? A woman, though a rather sick one, IIRC "Turner's Syndrome." You know what someone with only a Y chromosome is? Dead. Miscarried. Spontaneously aborted. That is incompatible with life. Face it, genetically speaking the X *is* the baseline. Y mostly modifies what already exists. Why (Y) do you think sex-linked diseases are so much more common in men? It's because you only have one X chromosome, so your bodies can't fall back to the other one.

                            I'd agree with you somewhat about the workplace, though I don't think "a group of men working together" really qualifies as a happy-clappy utopia once matters of status or rank enter the picture. Still, one of my most miserable experiences was retail at a clothing store with a bunch of queen bees and one tiny, loud, annoying manager whom i can best describe as "a 4'11" female Donald Trump."

                            --
                            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday March 20 2018, @03:05PM (6 children)

                              You are, occasionally, funny. This is one of those times.

                              I'm not saying either women-only or men-only workplaces are any better, just that the social dynamics are quite different and mixing them together without taking this into account is a recipe for disaster as has been shown over the past several decades. Take a blue-collar group of guys and introduce an average woman and she's going to have issues with the rude and crude demeanor as well as the strongly hierarchical power dynamics that work perfectly well among them, for instance. This is, of course, a generalization.

                              --
                              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                              • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Tuesday March 20 2018, @07:54PM (5 children)

                                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Tuesday March 20 2018, @07:54PM (#655595) Journal

                                You don't seem to like science very much, I notice. Or facts. Or reality. Too bad simply ignoring and refusing to address them doesn't make them go away~ :)

                                --
                                I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
                                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Tuesday March 20 2018, @10:25PM (4 children)

                                  I can't tell if you're utterly failing at self-awareness or just trying to troll. Meh, I don't really care either way right now. I'm far more interested in the hot wings I hear calling to me. You'll just have to go troll yourself for a while.

                                  --
                                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                                  • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:16AM (3 children)

                                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday March 21 2018, @02:16AM (#655815) Journal

                                    If you didn't care you wouldn't keep answering, cupcake :) Let's not kid ourselves, anyone reading this subthread would have noticed the exact point a couple of posts ago when you stopped saying anything substantive and stopped even pretending to reply to anything that was said to you and started acting all butthurt. If i were you i'd go easy on the hot wings until those hemorrhoids go down, tiger...

                                    --
                                    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday March 15 2018, @03:40PM (9 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Thursday March 15 2018, @03:40PM (#652967)

    I'm not entirely that's the issue. As in, yes, boys tend to behave like that. But so do girls, and so do many adults.

    The folks who studied personality a century ago identified some people as tending to be impulsive and energetic, which was really annoying a lot of the time but very very useful in a crisis. These impulsive and energetic types are drawn towards professions and activities like firefighting and extreme sports, where crisis management is exactly what you're doing. Indeed, for some, the thrill-seeking is so great a draw that if there aren't any crises going on for a while these folks will tend to create one on purpose just to liven things up.

    And then at some point we decided that this kind of person was difficult to fit into the molds we wanted them to fit into, defined it as a "disorder", and began drugging those who fell into it. It used to be we thought the kid who would never shut up and sit down during class and would instead try to be funny was known as a "class clown" who if particularly funny might become the next George Carlin, now they're suffering from a learning disability.

    These behaviors aren't a disorder, they're an adaptation. The right thing to do with people who have them is put them in situations and jobs where those behaviors are an asset rather than a liability.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by VLM on Thursday March 15 2018, @04:18PM (8 children)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 15 2018, @04:18PM (#652986)

      The right thing to do with people who have them is put them in situations and jobs where those behaviors are an asset rather than a liability.

      Yeah its hard to believe in the 2000s that putting kids into a 1800s school system designed to create the ideal 1900s factory workers and cannon fodder might result in a large segment of the population not fitting in and getting medicated for "failure".

      In terms of minimizing total pharmacological resources the lowest impact solution would be to medicate the failed system's administrators and leaders such that they could implement something more modern, optimistically more useful and humane.

      The folks who studied personality a century ago identified some people as tending to be impulsive and energetic, which was really annoying a lot of the time

      I bet the racial issues with ADHD are interesting. For identical behavior, depending on a kid's 23andme results, either he's the worlds calmest, tranquil, and introverted Irish, Italian, Black, or Latino, or he's the worlds most hyperactive extroverted motivated German, Brit, or Swede. Imagine a doc having to look at your 23andme before deciding if you need uppers or downers based on your ancestry, assuming medically enforced reversion to the racial median should be a medical goal, to begin with...

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Thexalon on Thursday March 15 2018, @04:39PM (3 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Thursday March 15 2018, @04:39PM (#652994)

        I bet the racial issues with ADHD are interesting.

        Err, what? There's approximately zero correlation between race/nationality and personality, except to the degree that black people in the US have been repeatedly on the receiving end of lead poisoning and other environmental problems as the result of being forced to live in the crappiest parts of town.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @06:53PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @06:53PM (#653044)

          Well, VLM tends to act normal and then mix weird beliefs into his otherwise believable stuff.

          Some people here contribute greatly but are like a smart weird uncle fester. you have to try not to diagnose their mental health issue and keep focused on the conversation while steering them back to the more relevant topics they are clearly good with but have a hard time staying focused on.

        • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday March 16 2018, @01:03PM (1 child)

          by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 16 2018, @01:03PM (#653560)

          There's approximately zero correlation between race/nationality and personality

          You'd have better luck trying to convince people there's zero correlation between race/nationality and skin melanin concentration, LOL.

          • (Score: 3, Funny) by Thexalon on Friday March 16 2018, @03:38PM

            by Thexalon (636) on Friday March 16 2018, @03:38PM (#653630)

            So what you're saying is that you know at most 1 person from each of the various ethnic groups you mentioned, and based on that ignorance fell back to thinking stereotypes were an accurate reflection of reality. Got it.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
      • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Gaaark on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:43PM (3 children)

        by Gaaark (41) on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:43PM (#653073) Journal

        As well, take away ball playing (someone might get hurt), monkey bars etc (someone might get hurt), PICKING up bloody snow (it might lead to snowball throwing)....

        ....kids can't let off steam during recess so they act up and have too much energy...

        .... SURPRISE!

        We were ALWAYS outside running our ASSES off: football, soccer, baseball, fecking tag. Run, run, run...we were like a fecking Doctor Who episode.

        Today, it's "stand there and dont get into trouble"

        --
        --- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @10:47PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @10:47PM (#653150)

          If the snow is bloody you have other more pressing issues

        • (Score: 2) by Magic Oddball on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:43PM (1 child)

          by Magic Oddball (3847) on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:43PM (#653184) Journal

          We did the same — but I clearly remember one boy in elementary school who was still constantly getting into trouble because he was hyperactive, had virtually no impulse control, and couldn't focus on anything for more than a minute or two. In retrospect, I feel sorry for him; he was often very funny, but had no friends because his behavior was so obnoxious.

          I agree with you otherwise, though; I've been seeing articles for years about elementary schools eliminating morning 'snacktime' recess & P.E., severely cutting back lunchtime recess, while also expecting kindergarteners to have long desk-based schooldays similar to our 1st grade. Add in that the kids ride in a car/bus for distances we always used to walk, aren't allowed to run/bike around with neighborhood kids after school, given as much homework as we were at 2-3 grade levels above, and that they then end up spending their remaining free time doing sedentary things (games, etc.).

          • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday March 16 2018, @01:05PM

            by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 16 2018, @01:05PM (#653562)

            elementary schools eliminating morning 'snacktime' recess & P.E., severely cutting back lunchtime recess

            Also eliminating organized screwing around like art and music. Nothing but the 3 R's to get those standardized test scores up.

  • (Score: 2) by ElizabethGreene on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:01PM (15 children)

    by ElizabethGreene (6748) Subscriber Badge on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:01PM (#653051) Journal

    I feel that ADHD is, or was at one time, overdiagnosed. That said, I do think there is something broken in a person that pulls a 30 on their ACT but barely squeaks out of high school with a 2.0 GPA.

    Something isn't right.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:33PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @07:33PM (#653070)

      I feel that ADHD is, or was at one time, overdiagnosed.

      Funny, I do not feel that at all, rather, I feel this pain running up and down all the diodes in my right side.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @08:08PM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @08:08PM (#653086)

      ADHD is underdiagnosed in children, otherwise there wouldn't be adults being newly diagnosed. Adults are probably also under diagnosed, but that's harder to know.

      In terms of brokenness, it's more likely either the test or the educational environment.

      • (Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday March 16 2018, @06:19AM (1 child)

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 16 2018, @06:19AM (#653411)

        That statement presumes that this is a condition that develops in childhood, but never in grown adults.

        (Is that the case? I don't know myself.)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 17 2018, @06:08AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 17 2018, @06:08AM (#653976)

          It's primarily a genetic condition that runs in families. Few conditions have a stronger relationship to genetics than ADHD. Situations where a child is diagnosed without close relatives also having it are relatively uncommon and it's usually because of a missed diagnosis.

          When they go about diagnosing adults they look very carefully at what they were like as children because it's easier to spot symptoms before the patient finds workarounds for the issues. If the symptoms start as an adult with truly nothing showing up in childhood, there's usually something else going on.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @09:57PM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @09:57PM (#653128)

      32 ACT. 1.8 graduating gpa. No adhd, just very uninterested in my parent's and teacher's expectations. Is being anti-authority and stubborn a medical condition? I failed pre-calc 3 times because I am not going to show work for math I do in my head, and I'm not gonna do busywork either. I learned just as well or better than everyone else - my test scores were good. I wasn't allowed to take interesting technical classes at the local CC because I was "too smart" to do vocational training, I had to take AP bullshit. The system that required me to do uninteresting things in even more uninteresting ways ad nauseam is what is broken, not me.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:06PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:06PM (#653159)

        The modern human came to prominence through collectivism; only the very top of the social hierarchy could get away with being "anti-authoritarian". Hitherto, it has been common, acceptable practice for anti-authoritarians in the lower ranks to be culled unceremoniously, thereby selectively breeding a population of sycophantic, obsequious, irrational, ritually inclined tribalists over which the ruling elite could preside.

        "The nail that sticks up will be hammered down" say the Japanese.

        So, yes, it is a medical condition, especially if you're born below the elites and have no good way to claw your way into their ranks. You are doomed to a life of relative seclusion or at least of endless, disappointing contention with your fellow folk.

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday March 16 2018, @12:55AM (2 children)

        Read the article. Interest-based focus is probably the single most defining characteristic of ADHD.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @03:20AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @03:20AM (#653335)

          Except that I CAN pay attention, and have no problem with focusing. I learned the material just fine, and I usually enjoyed lectures, I just didn't do the homework. I don't have issues doing what I'm required to do at work, even though it's boring stupid shit. No emotional hyperarousal, no RSD. I was just a bad student, I'm don't have ADHD.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:42PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 15 2018, @11:42PM (#653183)

      Hey, that's me! Aced the math and science portions of the test, sucked up English and history, graduated with a 2.75. Got accepted to Berkeley's high energy particle physics program, but gpa was too low for financial aid. $40000 per semester was out of my range. Been working at a gas station for the last 20 years now. It's not a bad gig, I'll retire with millions in stock, but its not theoretical physics.

    • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Friday March 16 2018, @12:53AM (4 children)

      by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 16 2018, @12:53AM (#653219) Homepage Journal

      What's an ACT?

      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Friday March 16 2018, @12:57AM

        Mouthwash [actoralcare.com] that doesn't taste like you just licked a chemical spill. Oh, it can also refer to a college acceptance test too but the mouthwash is more useful.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @01:34AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @01:34AM (#653259)

        In the US there are two commonly used standardized tests for getting into college. The more famous one is the SAT, but there's also the ACT.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACT_(test) [wikipedia.org]

      • (Score: 2) by VLM on Friday March 16 2018, @01:49PM (1 child)

        by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Friday March 16 2018, @01:49PM (#653589)

        In the old days it was the midwesterner's SAT. In somewhat more detail:

        SAT came from ivy schools needing an IQ test to limit admissions that wasn't banned by civil right legislation banning IQ tests, and spread to most coastie schools.

        ACT came from early midwestern attempts at K12 public school testing, which is super popular today but was a new idea in the 50s, and somehow morphed into the standard admissions IQ test, that is not legally technically one of those forbidden IQ tests, for midwestern and generally non-coastie higher ed.

        Originally the ACT tested the quality of education, but when the money started rolling in from uni admissions, it changed to an IQ test.

        There was a weird interlude generally in the gen-x era where ACT tests were not required of all high school students, but in practice at least where I lived about 99% of kids took them anyway at school on a saturday morning. From what I understand they're back to mandatory during school time, just like back in the 60s. I understand the price has gone way up much as tuition has. I donno who pays, probably the usual screw the parents over.

        The military has an IQ test called the ASVAB. Some states give all the high school kids the ASVAB test to determine the quality of schools and teachers under the usual fascination today with extensive testing.

        In theory the SAT and ASVAB and ACT are all testing the same thing, IQ, so there's concordance tables to map from one result to another highly predictive result.

        All the tests are fairly boomer and/or extreme social striver. During the boom, there was a bulge of kids trying to get into school, so the state school I attended had a simple ACT cutoff, above it you're in, below it you're out, and I heard that cutoff was pretty high during the boom. Nothing changed in the curriculum but as a gen-x there were vastly fewer students so the cutoff for admission was ridiculous low, like you'd have zero change of successfully graduating if you just barely made it past the admissions cutoff. In summary, the test scores mattered a lot in 1970, not at all in 1990, I donno now, aside from hypercompetitive ivy league schools where its always been hard to get in.

        Ironically the whole IQ test thing, and why its officially banned although in practice was and is still required, is IQ works pretty well as a racial/demographic filter that in the old jim crow days in the south was very popular to keep blacks out of white schools and so forth. In the really old days blacks would not have been permitted on campus, and now discrimination is anti-white. So IQ or standardized testing was a very short term fad, and there's really no point to it anymore other than revenue generation, which it does a great job of and therefore will never go away.

        Another oddity is as a gen-X I knew I only needed a 18 or so on the ACT to get into my state school because of the baby-bust so I did zero prep as did many of my peers leading to massive hand wringing in the gen-x era about kids getting stupider according to test results. I'm not entirely sure I was awake at the start of the test. Well, if I'm not aiming for an ivy, I can fill in the test with random numbers and still get into any non-ivy school in the country, so you can guess what lazy teens do. So yeah, the test scores from my school declined from 1970 to 1990 but the quality of the school and students demographics were unchanged, its merely that the test only matters based on the ratio of admission slots vs qty of prospective freshmen. I went to the same school as a boomer coworker could not get into; the admission cutoff for boomers in 1970 was approx 30 and he didn't make it, when I was a freshman it was 18 and I easily got in.

        There are some novelties, like the tests have undergone continuous revision in scoring to make results more politically correct or whatever, or simply to discourage comparison of scores. Any given SAT score or average might be on a 1600 or 2400 scale fairly randomly and usually unstated. The ACT is also messed with although to a lesser extent, the ACT got a 2 point boost in the mid 90s, so I got a 33 about thirty years ago and that supposedly would be comparable to a 35 today. The SAT changes are WAY more ridiculous with new baselines and new formulas. The ASVAB supposedly has never changed anything but the formulas.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 17 2018, @06:11AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 17 2018, @06:11AM (#653977)

          SAT scores are highly predictive of the amount of money that the family spent on SAT prep, far more than anything else. Schools like the scores because it allows them to weed out poor and middle class students, the ones that won't have the money to pay for private tutors and similar to pass the courses. Plus, they're more likely to have money to fund endowments and grants later on.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @06:51AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @06:51AM (#653417)

    Certain kinds of higher functioning girls and boys will be girls and boys.

    I knew quite a few girls with ADHD when I was a kid. The difference in treatment between the girls and boys however should not be overlooked.