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Suppose, a litre of cola costs US$3.15. If you buy one third of a litre of cola, how much would you pay?
The above may seem like a rather basic question. Something that you would perhaps expect the vast majority of adults to be able to answer? Particularly if they are allowed to use a calculator.
Unfortunately, the reality is that a large number of adults across the world struggle with even such basic financial tasks (the correct answer is US$1.05, by the way).
[...] In many other countries, the situation is even worse. Four in every ten adults in places like England, Canada, Spain and the US can't make this straightforward calculation – even when they had a calculator to hand. Similarly, less than half of adults in places like Chile, Turkey and South Korea can get the right answer.
-- submitted from IRC
High number of adults unable to do basic mathematical tasks
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @12:39AM (44 children)
Democratic decision-making gives an equal voice to unequal people.
If the power to vote is given out freely, it cannot be worth much—especially when one's current vote is essentially independent of the outcomes of one's previous votes.
(Score: 2) by takyon on Friday March 16 2018, @12:44AM (2 children)
"2 + 2 = 5."
- Winston S. Churchill
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @12:49AM (1 child)
Wasn't "2 + 2 = 5" an Intel Pentium patent? For suitably large values of 2 of course.
(Score: -1, Spam) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @01:25AM
The woman walked into her counselor's office and sat down in a luxurious chair. The counselor greeted her and beckoned her to tell him her story. The woman hesitantly recounted the traumatic experience that befell her, and told him how it has affected her life ever since. The woman had been raped by a man. The counselor patiently waited for her to finish, and nodded his head when she had. It was his turn to speak.
"I think the problem is your attitude," said the man. He continued, "It is a profound honor for a woman to be utilized by a man; it means that he found her useful, at least temporarily. You should be grateful."
The woman was shocked. She couldn't believe what she was hearing. She tries to speak, but no words would emerge from her mouth.
"It's worse than I thought. It seems I'm going to have to fix you so that you may have a more positive outlook on life," said the man, as he stood up. "Let's begin," he finished.
Wham! Wham! Wham! Wham! The man violated the woman while slamming her head against the floor repeatedly. As he did this, the man chuckled and wore an amused smile on his face. The woman's body sustained more and more damage with each passing second, and came closer and closer to death's door. Just as it seemed as though the woman would die, the counselor proclaimed that he was finished. He presented a simple question, "Well?"
The woman - now barely capable of speech - managed to mutter two words while coughing up blood: "Thank you."
An angelic smile appeared on the counselor's face. He had made the world a better place. The future appeared as bright as the sun.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by fyngyrz on Friday March 16 2018, @12:48AM (13 children)
The problem, historically speaking, is that means to triage the voters tend to be misused for disenfranchising people for reasons other than their actual competence.
A lot of people think that's a worse problem than some poorly reasoned votes.
Although considering congress, the executive and the judiciary selected by those two today, perhaps they'd want to re-think that. :/
Can you imagine the screaming if there was a qualification test for voting? O boy.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by bob_super on Friday March 16 2018, @12:58AM (12 children)
Simple solution: People come to vote, and at the top of the ballot, there are 5 random questions taken from the 100 in the booklet that foreigners applying for US citizenship have to learn. Those are very basic questions about the functions of government, and rights.
Answer at least three questions correctly (4?), your vote gets counted.
(Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @01:34AM (2 children)
I think those questions are far too easy. They also have a bit of a leftist bias, particularly regarding choice of topics. Still, it'd be better than nothing.
A nice question to ask would be about a statement similar to: "A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed." (Who gets to keep and eat food, the people or the well balanced breakfast?)
Another good thing to ask about would be if people have the right to picket funerals with signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS". Our supreme court has ruled on exactly that.
We could also ask if it is OK to give a ride to an illegal alien. (FYI: Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(A)(ii) and Title 8, U.S.C. § 1324(a)(1)(B)(ii) will give you 5 years in prison)
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @06:39AM (1 child)
As in, yes, they are about the Constitution. Amazing that the Constitution has become a Liberal Document. Of course, it always was. Those against it were Loyalists, or more apropos the Americans, traitors, or Canadians. But let's just cut to the chase and admit that the alt-right, the Old-right, the Republican Ronnie Right, all of these are in opposition to the United States Constitution. This is why they oppose the ACLU, why they are opposed to non-whites voting, this is why they are stupid and deplorable, just like the TMB, with no clue about how badly they are being used by corporate America.
If you are asking, my Uber queue is full, but I might be able to fit you in on Saturday, no questions asked, because "on a computer, or mobile phone network" negates all US Code, right? Unless you are a fucking Republican. I reserve the right to deny service to all Republican, and their libertarian hangers-on, because to do business with them would go against my religious beliefs. I mean, I am not a Ferengi!!!
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @09:08AM
There is the lie that we have a capitalist/market economy. (note: your local ISP monopoly, rent control, welfare)
There is the implication that we have "rule of law" ("Everyone Must Follow The Law","Leaders Must Obey The Law","Government Must Obey The Law","No One Is Above The Law") which Hillary Clinton demonstrates to be false.
The question "Who does a U.S. Senator represent?" is a hoot. Seriously, "All People Of The State" is the supposed answer. Actually, they represent entities like AARP and Google and the National Association of Realtors.
They ask for a power of the federal government. They left out immigration control.
They ask about a state governor and capital, which is silly.
An answer states that becoming a citizen makes you promise to "Give Up Loyalty To Other Countries", yet we tolerate dual citizenship.
There is a bunch of pointless memorization. Knowing the exact date of the adoption of the Declaration of Independence, or being able to list all 13 original states, or the exact location of the Statue of Liberty, is diluting the question pool with fluff.
It is incorrectly states that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves with the emancipation proclamation. No, he only freed slaves in states that refused to stay in the union.
There is some junk about Susan B. Anthony, some chick who made America wimpy.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @05:53AM (2 children)
Maybe some maths questions too and some general history, make it multiple choice it's the USA after all.
And maybe rather than simply selecting whether the vote counts, the answers should decide the weight of the vote. (maybe indeed down to zero)
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Friday March 16 2018, @06:43AM (1 child)
But then, surely many people will think the final vote "Who should become president of the United States" is also part of the test, and they must cross the "correct" option to pass, even if they think differently. And if there are enough of those, they may well change the outcome.
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by deimtee on Friday March 16 2018, @10:51AM
You definitely need a none-of-the-above option.
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by legont on Friday March 16 2018, @05:14PM (5 children)
We simply need "against all" option and if it gets the majority all the participants should be banned from holding an office for life.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday March 16 2018, @05:30PM (4 children)
That wasn't the point being addressed.
It's also a great way to end up without a government for a really long time.
(Score: 1, Flamebait) by legont on Friday March 16 2018, @05:51PM (1 child)
I beg to differ. it's the best way to drain the swamp for good and get real representatives of The People elected.
As per your point, let me spell it out for you. You believe that certain, probably liberal, people are smart and the rest of the People are stupid. Well, you are wrong.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday March 16 2018, @06:05PM
> As per your point, let me spell it out for you. You believe that certain, probably liberal, people are smart and the rest of the People are stupid. Well, you are wrong.
How does "Maybe the people casting a vote could be held to the same standard of knowing the civic system as the foreign people applying for citizenship" translate to liberal elitism?
We ask people to get licenses to practice medicine or fly a plane, but knowing how the government works is totally unnecessary when you chose your congressman.
That was an impressively moronic comment...
(Score: 2) by Justin Case on Friday March 16 2018, @06:52PM (1 child)
That's a feature, not a bug.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday March 16 2018, @07:09PM
Too bad nobody deserves a reward for predicting obvious shortsighted replies.
Have you considered the devastation that not having the federal government would wreck on the economy? Not talking about roaming bands of gunmen, but but the simpler collapse of almost every company related to financial, military, agro, bio, construction, you-name-it sectors.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @12:53AM (7 children)
There is a certain logic in what you say. However, dumb people are generally just as good (or better) at dragging your ass into the street and beating the shit out of you. Probably better to stick with one vote per person that to argue this one out.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Friday March 16 2018, @02:09AM (5 children)
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 3, Touché) by dry on Friday March 16 2018, @04:56AM (1 child)
Funny enough, so are smart people.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @02:15PM
https://xkcd.com/356/ [xkcd.com]
(Score: 2) by bzipitidoo on Friday March 16 2018, @05:57AM (1 child)
Do you believe that intelligence is entirely innate and fixed? All nature and no nurture? A person's IQ can vary by at least 20 points due to all kinds of factors. Poisoning, illness, old age, imprisonment, stress, low economic status, poor nutrition, and bad or no education are all things that reduce intelligence. The opposite of most of those, plus stuff like listening to classical music, practicing on puzzles, reading, and such like mental activities raise intelligence. As should be obvious, it's much easier to lower intelligence than raise it.
Then there's the various challenges of life that raise the average intelligence of the population through the myriad fatal mistakes that stupid people are more prone to make, the whole Darwin Award idea. War is an especially severe challenge, very high risk, yet millions of idiots are willing to follow demagogues anywhere, even into unwinnable wars, and even when they aren't driven by the desperation of a famine. It may be a great pity that we invented nuclear weapons when we did, while we are still somewhat undomesticated, so to speak, though the talk of "end all war" is encouraging.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday March 16 2018, @02:36PM
Such a claim rests on the assumption of an all-volunteer army, which is a relatively new concept in the US, and even more uncommon abroad. The Vietnam War ended only 42 years ago, and I guarantee you that most of the boys killed over there weren't volunteers. When your number comes up in the draft you get to choose - you can "fight" for "your" country (probably actually work logistics - I think there's a ~10 support crew for every soldier carrying a gun), flee the country, or spend up to 5 years in prison and/or pay a fine of up to $250,000.
Also, just as in days of yore, joining the military is one of the very few ways for someone born into poverty to make it into the middle class. Even organized crime doesn't offer that, and while scholarships can help, they're really only useful for the academically inclined, which doesn't necessarily correlate with IQ or any other measure of social worth.
(Score: 2) by legont on Friday March 16 2018, @05:17PM
Actually, the easiest to trap are con man. That's because whoever has the highest confidence is the easiest target hence the name "con game".
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @06:52AM
Citation needed! I suspect this is not true, even in a statistical sense, since every time a dumb person has hauled my ass out for a bit of the old fisticuffs, they have sorely regretted even having done so. Dumb people tend to be slow, they never see the cross coming. Not to mention the nut-crushing kick to the groin. Ah, dumb people! Can't live with 'em, can't live with them selecting political leaders of nation-states. Franco is still dead.
(Score: 2) by edIII on Friday March 16 2018, @01:03AM (12 children)
Uh huh. Either that, or the problem is one of education. If one believed in the power of voting, then the result is our fault. Otherwise, it's swine that walk on two-legs, that also believe they're unequal to most, that control the state of education today.
Gee... that's awfully hard to figure out how we've become under-educated bigoted obese citizens. The alternative would be people far more able to put the 1% swine where they belong, which is out of power.
Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
(Score: 4, Interesting) by IndigoFreak on Friday March 16 2018, @03:06AM (11 children)
I'm not sure its education. I bet most high school students could do this. It's just a skill people lose. And while they should not lose it, they just don't care enough.
Of course you could argue that the failure was to ingrain in them the ability to realize simple math is a valuable skill...but I'd still disagree. Our society makes it too
easy to forget what little education you do get. We have it way too easy in the first world.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by maxwell demon on Friday March 16 2018, @06:52AM (5 children)
One easy way to make people train their basic calculation abilities would be if at the shop they have to calculate the amount they will have to pay, and then they get told the true amount, but they have to pay the true price plus the absolute difference between both values (so they get to pay more both if they say too much, and if they say too little).
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @10:47AM
> train their basic calculation abilities
Easy to game this one. Pay for each item individually (with cash), takes longer but won't incur any penalty for adding mistakes.
(Score: 3, Touché) by deimtee on Friday March 16 2018, @10:55AM (2 children)
Do you want to try explaining that system to people who can't work out that one third of $3.15 is $1.05 ?
If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @01:06PM
Well, they question said how much a liter costs, and asks how much 1/3rd of a liter costs. Which is a horribly stupid question, because 1/3rd of a liter would probably cost around $1.50 or even around $2 in reality.
If you have a mathematics question, feel you have to wrap it in "everyday context" and then make it so that the "correct" answer is in complete contradiction to reality, why should I think someone is dumb because they don't give the idiotic, completely bogus answer the idiot asking was expecting?
Sometimes, not getting the right answer means the person asking is the idiot, not the one being asked.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @02:13PM
Sure, the government does shit like this everyday, they just call it a Tax. You thing his scheme is convoluted compared to non linear progression of income tax, with hidden deductions sprinkled in all over the place?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @12:01PM
Great. Longer line of people standing before you at any given time.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Friday March 16 2018, @11:01AM (4 children)
I had a graduate student - i.e. studying for a PhD, with a first class degree from a world-leading university - who could not do this sort of calculation in her head (she could with a calculator). I think it was trendy in the 90s not to teach arithmetic in the UK.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday March 16 2018, @02:51PM (3 children)
Honestly, I think that in a world where pretty much everyone is carrying a calculator with them at all times, being able to do arithmetic in your head, or even on paper, is a questionable skill. I mean sure, I find it handy, but there's very few times when it matters that I couldn't just use my phone. Heck, when it matters I probably use my phone anyway because it's more convenient than finding pencil and paper, and less error-prone than doing it completely in my head.
Knowing how to *use* math on the other hand is an extremely valuable skill. I could get behind a push to teach grade-school arithmetic using primarily calculators and word problems. A hell of a lot more useful than all this modern nonsense in the US teaching various "tricks" and "shortcuts" for performing arithmetic. What's the point in teaching a shortcut that obscures the fundamental principles involved? Shortcuts are something you teach to someone who needs a faster way to perform repetitive tasks - and the only repetitive tasks students perform are the very exercises that are supposed to be helping them learn something more broadly useful.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @07:59PM (1 child)
I don't know where you went to school, but we didn't learn tricks or shortcuts, and weren't allowed to use calculators except where the class was about "how to use a graphing calculator to do what you learned to do last year by hand" and I imagine calculus but I never took that. The calculator is the #1 reason people can't do math and don't understand or remember it. Writing by hand or using your brain drills stuff into your memory, punching numbers just goes through the motions.
(Score: 2) by Immerman on Friday March 16 2018, @08:57PM
Neither did I, but have you looked at any of the "new math" stuff? It's almost all tricks and shortcuts, many of which are of very dubious utility without pencil and paper, and most of which do nothing to explain the fundamental principles which underlie them. Go ahead, try to multiply two three-digit numbers using the intersecting lines methods in your head, you'll need exceptionally stable visualization skills. Meanwhile I've looked through several books and not one explained WHY or HOW the method works, I had to work that out myself. Not exactly rocket science, but I doubt I could have done it without already having a sound understanding what multiplication fundamentally is. So it teaches kids a dubious shortcut that's (maybe) easier to get right on paper, but without any context as to why it actually works, or developing any skills that will be useful for more advanced math, or anything else really.
Meanwhile most calculators don't do math, only arithmetic. Math is a language, an extremely precise artificial one, and the most important part of math for the average user is being able to translate real-world problems into a mathematical representation - e.g. turning the given question into $3.15 / 3 = ?. Once you've done that the answer is within easy reach of anyone who knows how to perform the calculation, regardless of the method used. Heck, we could probably condense several years worth of rote memorization into one year of concepts and calculator training, and then advance into basic algebra and start teaching them real math. Algebra is easy - just a bunch of little logic puzzles, and way easier than trying to perform calculations correctly. Advanced stuff gets a lot more complicated, but you've got to get pretty far along before you hit anything that takes the sort of sustained rigorous precision required for long division, or even multiplying two two-digit numbers.
(Score: 2) by PiMuNu on Monday March 19 2018, @09:56AM
> I mean sure, I find it handy, but there's very few times when it matters that I couldn't just use my phone.
Nonsense. I spend a lot of time reviewing work of post-docs and students in meetings. Stupid example:
Someone puts a slide up showing that they have 18 noise triggers per 200 data triggers, then the next slide they show 1 % purity. I need to be able to catch that and interrogate them - where did the other 9 % go? Usually they didn't notice and made a typo/bad assumption somewhere.
Anyone doing engineering/science needs to be able to do that as part of their job.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @09:46AM
It's not that democracy is a bad idea, the really bad idea is to allow the state to control the education system.
The point of education as far as the state is concerned is to produce workers with just enough education to perform whatever tasks the state requires of them without having the ability to question said tasks. I'm not limiting this to what you'd call 'blue collar' workers, it's across the board, I've had the misfortune to work in a place with a disproportionately large number of people with university degrees issued in the past two decades who've displayed what I regard as shocking degrees of ignorance of the subjects they've paper qualifications for.
As if it matters, the elite have absolutely no interest in having true democracy, like every other political system it's a useful fiction for them to hide their machinations behind...pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, the man who would be more than happy to see that you've fallen for one of their traps by thinking 'Hurr durr, me more educated than Ugg, me's voice count more..' when in reality, despite your education, your voice is just as worthless in their eyes.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @10:37AM
You got a better idea?
(Score: 2) by meustrus on Friday March 16 2018, @02:59PM (2 children)
Which is why direct democracy isn't practiced at any large scale, anywhere. Instead, we have many Republics.
The idea of the popular vote in a Republic is not necessarily that the public will elect the best candidate. The idea is that they will exert pressure against corruption and elitism, creating a structural reason for leaders to care about the little people.
All that is really required for this to work is for the public to have direct capability to punish individuals and their associates for bad behavior. There's always the threat of revolution, though, so what's really required is 1) the ability to recognize bad behavior, and 2) a less destructive means of punishing it. That's why a free press is a more fundamental requirement for "democratic" states than effective elections are.
If there isn't at least one reference or primary source, it's not +1 Informative. Maybe the underused +1 Interesting?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @04:15PM
Democracy and republic are not incompatible terms! A republic refers to a system of government that does not have a monarch. Both China and North Korea are republics, but you sure as hell wouldn't say they have the same type of government as the US.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 16 2018, @08:05PM
The US states practice representative democracy, the federal government is republican.
(Score: 2) by Wootery on Tuesday March 20 2018, @03:32PM
Wrong. Democracy isn't just about utilising the wisdom of crowds, it's about aligning the interests of the governors and the governed, and legitimising government.