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posted by Fnord666 on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:11PM   Printer-friendly
from the manna dept.

Submitted via IRC for AndyTheAbsurd

Gone are the heady days of cashiers asking if you want your order "supersized."

Not only has the infamous upgrade gone by the wayside, but cashiers at fast-food restaurants are becoming increasingly uncommon. McDonald's started rolling out ordering kiosks at its US locations in 2015, and the chain hasn't looked back since: by 2020, most of its 14,000 locations will have kiosks installed.

Panera Bread has also committed to digital ordering. Admittedly, when I first tried it in 2015, I found it had decidedly dystopian vibes. But it ended up being a fairly pleasant and painless experience.

A recent poll conducted by Business Insider's partner MSN suggests that diners aren't big fans of automated kiosks: 78% of customers said they would be less inclined to go to a restaurant that has automated ordering kiosks.

The popular narrative is that kiosks and mobile ordering are here to take jobs and hours away from underpaid cashiers, ultimately saving companies money in the face of rising labor costs — but the data suggests that isn't true. It may be true for some, but most chains are simply reallocating labor behind the scenes. And with such a tight labor market, many chains are struggling to hire and retain customer-facing employees.

Americans don't seem too threatened by automation in general. Nationally, only 21% of responders to MSN's poll believe their job may one day be done by machines. And restaurants like automated ordering for its increased accuracy and efficiency as more chains look towards cashless options.

But for now, a question remains: are kiosks, in fact, better for customers?

Source: Business Insider


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by frojack on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:39PM (32 children)

    by frojack (1554) on Saturday March 31 2018, @09:39PM (#660955) Journal

    I've seen these in various locations, and I make an attempt to use the kiosks just to see how easy/difficult they are to use.

    As long as you leave your NFC running on the phone all the time so that your payment app works without fiddling around with that, the kiosks work well. Or they do after the third time you use them. Most of the kiosks also accept credit cards, but my NFC payment uses one-time credit card numbers and who the hell knows what is inside that kiosk card reader.

    The problem is they are different in every restaurant chain. The pimply faced kid behind the counter is still faster and easier interface to manage. A known entity, that everyone knows how to navigate. And you don't have to learn Mandarin or American Sign Language just to speak to him/her.

    But every kiosk visit is a learning experience; of screen selection methods, constantly updating options, and varying payment methods. And more advertising, that you have to specifically dismiss, rather than simply look away from.

    Kitchens were designed for a specific number of workers and cashier stations. If the kiosks ever become popular, you can't simply hire more cooks. You have to rebuild the kitchens. They are a half-assed solution to an unclear problem at present.

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  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:13PM (4 children)

    by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:13PM (#660969) Homepage

    Is there any way to have your "favorite orders?" Like when you're in the mood for chicken, you order the chicken sandwich combo with a single selection? Or when you know you're gonna star in a Scheiße film later that day you get the super-sized Big-Mac combo?

    • (Score: 2) by takyon on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:25PM (2 children)

      by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:25PM (#660973) Journal

      It would be super easy to save those selections in an app. And behold, it probably does exist:

      https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/food/mcdonalds-app-mobile-ordering/ [thepennyhoarder.com]

      “Customers will be able to place orders directly on the mobile app for pickup or have a kiosk recognize their app profile, which holds customized favorites and preferred payment methods,” the company said in a March 2017 statement. “The result is a more stress-free, personalized experience, enhanced by technology and world-class hospitality that puts customers in control.”

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      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:48AM

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:48AM (#661086) Homepage
        It's wonderful how "we didn't put stupid blockages in your way" is now the "personalised" option. That should be the default.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:01PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:01PM (#661186)

        it is no longer convenient and fast if I have to register my real name through multiple services in order for something to remember for me on a privacy violating leash device that gives the illusion of freedoms (tied to a credit history and travel history and call log and contact list harvesting) that I want a #3, and will pay in cash.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:44PM

      by fyngyrz (6567) on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:44PM (#660982) Journal

      Is there any way to have your "favorite orders?"

      The app makes this dead easy. Start your order, scroll across your saved favorites, tap, check out.

      I don't know about the kiosks. I haven't been inside a McDonalds since the app came out. I order from the truck in a parking space, they bring it right to us.

  • (Score: 2, Interesting) by JoeMerchant on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:28PM (16 children)

    by JoeMerchant (3937) on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:28PM (#660975)

    In 1988 I did a drive through order at a Burger King in Miami, the person taking the order was in North Dakota - they've been testing and refining this concept forever, it's just finally reached the economic point where it's getting wider adoption.

    Rising minimum wages might have kicked it off, but I'd say - rather, that stagnant minimum wages kept this day from coming sooner - and even if minimum wages stayed stagnant, it was coming soon regardless.

    --
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    • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:36AM (15 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:36AM (#661048) Journal

      Rising minimum wages might have kicked it off, but I'd say - rather, that stagnant minimum wages kept this day from coming sooner - and even if minimum wages stayed stagnant, it was coming soon regardless.

      That's a comforting myth. I think it's rather that if a society punishes employers, then they'll go out of their way to not employ people.

      • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:53AM (3 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:53AM (#661060)

        Interesting that you consider non-starving employees a punishment for employers.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:46PM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:46PM (#661127) Journal

          Interesting that you consider non-starving employees a punishment for employers.

          Interesting how you frame it instinctively as employees starving.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:00PM (1 child)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:00PM (#661132) Journal

          Interesting that you consider non-starving employees a punishment for employers.

          You're making the unwarranted assumption that the restrictions and costs imposed on employers make for less starving employees. After all, that's the gist of a lot of minimum wage research right? But here we see the dark side which all that research ignores, namely, that there's a huge incentive for businesses to do what they can to strip employees out of their business.

          But I guess if one ignores the half century of employers automating and moving parts of their business to the developing world, then one might indeed get the impression that there's no consequences to these games.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:32PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:32PM (#661183) Journal
            I should say rather "a" dark side, since that isn't the only drawback to bad labor policy.
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:53AM (9 children)

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:53AM (#661087) Homepage
        Employers don't want to employ people already. Employees are a cost. Employers want to reduce costs. (Which is why the "job creaters" rhetoric in big-busiiness-oriented politics is so laughably false.)
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:48PM (8 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 01 2018, @12:48PM (#661128) Journal

          Employers don't want to employ people already. Employees are a cost. Employers want to reduce costs. (Which is why the "job creaters" rhetoric in big-busiiness-oriented politics is so laughably false.)

          Employers want to make money, not reduce costs. And automated systems are a cost too.

          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:13PM (7 children)

            by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:13PM (#661178) Journal

            Reducing costs *is* a form of making money. Who do you think you're fooling with this disingenuous bullshit? The market is not God, and your continual advocacy of effectively feeding it a stream of slow-motion human sacrifices is not doing you any favors.

            --
            I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
            • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:31PM (5 children)

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:31PM (#661182) Journal

              Reducing costs *is* a form of making money.

              They can also reduce costs by reducing automation, or for that matter, not having a business at all.

              Let's keep in mind also the ultimate implication of FatPhil's original assertion, that businesses will be equally willing to cut labor no matter how much the cost. Who really thinks that is true?

              My point instead is that smart changes in regulation, and imposed costs on labor will result in cheaper labor costs for businesses. At that point, they have increased incentive to both keep current employees and to hire more since there is more profit from the current employees as well as increased opportunities to profit from hiring more people.

              • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:44PM (3 children)

                by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:44PM (#661185) Journal

                Slavery is cheap labor too, so why don't we do that? Jesus, do you ever THINK about the implications of the shit you say?!

                --
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                • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:02PM (1 child)

                  by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 01 2018, @05:02PM (#661187) Journal

                  Slavery is cheap labor too, so why don't we do that?

                  Because I'm about getting the most value for the employee. The problem is that employment is a trade. Put the thumb down on the scale so that it artificially favors one side and you damage the value of the trade. Slavery is an extreme push to favor employers and thus, even ignoring the destruction of human freedom, harms employment.

                  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @06:05PM

                    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 01 2018, @06:05PM (#661194) Journal

                    But starvation wages, lack of benefits, and so on don't? In the name of not putting one's thumb on the scales, as you put it, you'd deregulate business entirely to the point that even slavery would be preferable as at least the slaves were housed (poorly) and fed (poorly)?

                    How many times do I need to say this?! The market is not God, making money is not humanity's sole purpose in life, and peoples' lives have more value that ideology, however pure. You would feed, as I said, mass amounts of slow-motion human sacrifices to your idols.

                    --
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                • (Score: 0, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 02 2018, @02:02AM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 02 2018, @02:02AM (#661301)

                  Slavery is NOT cheap labor. It's only cheap compared to housing, feeding, AND paying other people to work your fields. Look up the adjusted cost of slave, there's a reason only the wealthy had them.

              • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:39PM

                by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:39PM (#661248) Homepage
                > Who really thinks that is true?

                When companies announce massive layoffs, share prices rise. That means a lot of people think it's true, in particular, influential people.
                --
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            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:34PM

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:34PM (#661246) Homepage
              Hey - don't get +1 insightfuls just by rewording my post!!!yksi!!yksi!!

              Nah, only jesting, happy to see any hit-him-with-the-you're-a-dimbo-stick posts. It takes the weight off my back, and I'm not sure I want to interact too much as I think he's stalking me.
              --
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      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:32PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:32PM (#661170)

        these scum you call employers are just leechers

  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by fyngyrz on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:41PM (2 children)

    by fyngyrz (6567) on Saturday March 31 2018, @10:41PM (#660980) Journal

    The problem is [kiosks] are different in every restaurant chain.

    It might be "a" problem, but I hardly think it qualifies as a serious problem. Not for folks like us, anyway, who use far more complex things on a daily basis. I mean, really, come on. It's a toddler-level exercise in menu navigation, complete with bouncing french fries.

    Kiosks themselves are sort of a half-step towards a good solution, at least until they can automatically recognize you. A better solution – which McDonald's, to its credit, has already implemented – is a phone app. Which has the "automatically recognize you" thing nailed, and eliminates the entire "counter" experience.

    So, as this is McDonalds we're talking about here, it turns out that I actually use the McDonalds phone app. A debit card attached to a very lean bank account of mine is stuffed away somewhere in the bowels of McDonalds, and so payment is not something I have to deal with at all, other than to juice the account once a month when I'm doing other banking anyway. Takes about 10 seconds. I might even be able to get the bank to automate it, though I've not actually explored that, as it's so easy anyway.

    The app itself is brain-dead easy to navigate. You can set up favorites. Ordering is quick and easy. All I have to do is drive up to a parking space, tap the screen a couple times (really, it's that simple), and a couple minutes later some minimum wage slave comes out and hands me my order through the truck's window like a carhop of old, only sadly without the skates and short skirt. The curves are there, but often either on the wrong sex or in the wrong places – or both.

    Since I created the order, it's almost always exactly right. It takes a considerable amount of human error out of the process (not all... but that's coming when they replace the food prep people, I'm sure), and, insofar as McDonalds is concerned at least, is exactly the right way to go IMHO.

    They are a half-assed solution to an unclear problem at present.

    No, they aren't. Problems the app solves, and a kiosk could solve, in a non-half-assed manner include:

    • Waiting for someone to take your order / waiting in the drive-through line
    • The order taker getting the order wrong
    • Fumbling with payment
    • Some potentially larcenous human handling your method of payment
    • Order taker doesn't know your prefs / special orders
    • The order taker doesn't remember to tell you about sale or deal you might want
    • Special orders through a human are fraught with error

    You have missed the point of leaning into the automation. There are lots and lots of reasons to do so, and seriously, it's toddler-easy.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:30AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 01 2018, @03:30AM (#661046)

      When it comes to "fast" food around here, McDonalds seems to either hire the bottom rung of people or not train them at all. On a rare occasion, I stop at the store across the street from my work in the morning. I go inside if the drive-thru wraps around the building. Invariably, there is nobody manning the counter because all hands are working drive-thru only. I may be the only customer at the counter, yet I will wait and wait to be served, only to realize it would have been faster to wait in the drive-thru. And ordering from the big screen TV "menu" is impossible because the menu disappears every 30 seconds for a fucking commercial.

    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:32AM

      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Sunday April 01 2018, @09:32AM (#661090) Homepage
      > like a carhop of old, only sadly without the skates and short skirt. The curves are there, but often either on the wrong sex or in the wrong places – or both.

      I have nothing to add, except to say that I found that absolutely hilarious.
      --
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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:50PM

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 31 2018, @11:50PM (#660999)

    And more advertising, that you have to specifically dismiss, rather than simply look away from.

    You mean like GoDaddy?

    "Hey, you put a domain in your cart, take a look at what else you may need" ... 14 pages later ... "Your session has timed out."

  • (Score: 1) by tftp on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:21AM (4 children)

    by tftp (806) on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:21AM (#661053) Homepage

    The pimply faced kid behind the counter is still faster and easier interface to manage. A known entity, that everyone knows how to navigate. And you don't have to learn Mandarin or American Sign Language just to speak to him/her.

    On the other hand, you cannot talk to him in Mandarin or Swahili or Norwegian, whereas a kiosk or an app can support that easily. Mute people will not need ASL, not that a typical pimple-faced kid would know what it is.

    • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:26AM (3 children)

      by Dr Spin (5239) on Sunday April 01 2018, @08:26AM (#661080)

      In many cases in the UK, they appear not to understand English, either.
      Ask for "Diet coke with no ice" and 9/10 times you get ice.
      Yesterday it took four attempts to get a "cream egg McFlurry" however, I am pleased to say I was not offered any green furry egg things as a substitute.

      --
      Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:15PM (1 child)

        by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday April 01 2018, @04:15PM (#661180) Journal

        You do not like green eggs and ham?

        --
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        • (Score: 2) by Gaaark on Monday April 02 2018, @12:55AM

          by Gaaark (41) on Monday April 02 2018, @12:55AM (#661288) Journal

          I do not like them Aziam!
          ;)

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      • (Score: 2) by turgid on Monday April 02 2018, @01:21PM

        by turgid (4318) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 02 2018, @01:21PM (#661439) Journal

        I never buy anything from McDonalds but I will eat at Burger King if I'm desperate. When I ask for "without mayonnaise" they always look perplexed. I still have a mild Scottish accent. Invariably I have to ask for "no my-oh."

  • (Score: 2) by bobthecimmerian on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:30PM

    by bobthecimmerian (6834) on Sunday April 01 2018, @01:30PM (#661138)

    Relying on the person at the counter leads to a wildly inconsistent experience. Sometimes you have a veteran that can whip through my kids' insanely complex customized requests as fast as they each speak. But sometimes you have to repeat yourself four times and then when you get the printed receipt you have to go back to the counter to have them correct a few entries. So in that respect, when I first saw a fast food place with a kiosk I went straight to the kiosk.

    But if you customize your orders, using the kiosk only makes sense if you visit the same restaurant all of the time. I started entering the options for our family and three minutes in I gave up. They had everything we wanted and there were no problems with the input, but navigating all the menus to remove mustard and add onions and so forth got old in a hurry.

    I'm trying to teach my kids two lessons. It's not working. Lesson one: don't eat fast food. Lesson two: do yourself, the rest of your family, and the people behind us in line a favor and pick a meal that you can eat without customization. I usually walk up to the front counter and say something like "I'll take combo three with bottled water to drink."