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posted by martyb on Sunday April 08 2018, @11:31PM   Printer-friendly
from the progress++ dept.

Ultra HD group outlines next generation of 4K TV broadcasts

The concept of 4K TV broadcasting is only just getting off the ground, but its overseers are already planning for what comes next. The Ultra HD Forum has published its first "Phase B" guidelines detailing what companies should aim for with future 4K broadcast tech. Not surprisingly, high frame rates should play a major role -- the group is hoping for 100FPS and 120FPS video (depending on the region) with a fallback for 60FPS. It's also pushing for dynamic HDR video through formats like Dolby Vision and SL-HDR, while Dolby AC-4 and MPEG-H would provide audio that could adapt from elaborate 3D sound setups to a plain set of headphones.

PDF for Revision 1.0 of the Ultra HD Forum Phase B Guidelines:

The Phase B technologies were carefully selected to help service operators plan for next generation UHD services. In August 2017, the Ultra HD Forum conducted a Service Operator Survey with the goal of learning about up-and-coming UHD technologies that have captured the interest of service operators. The survey results served as a guide to the Ultra HD Forum in drafting this document.

This version of the UHD Phase B Guidelines is a preliminary look at these important UHD technologies. The goal of this version is to introduce and de-mystify the technologies and provide information to operators that are considering incorporating one or more of these advanced features into their UHD services.

Also at MyBroadband.


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 2, Disagree) by bzipitidoo on Monday April 09 2018, @12:13AM (21 children)

    by bzipitidoo (4388) on Monday April 09 2018, @12:13AM (#664090) Journal

    I admit that 720 lines is noticeably better than 480 lines, depending on the content. However, 480 is quite acceptable for the typical movie. 1080 usually doesn't look much better than 720, so that I've wondered if the 1080 content I've seen is actually 720 that's been upscaled. Genuine 1080 looks a little sharper and crisper, but not so much that I care to pay any more for it. So, 4K seems more like another excuse to tempt people into upgrading. And then there's 8K on the horizon....

    Interestingly, it seems that 720 line source doesn't increase the size of a VP9 encoded video file much over a 480 line source. I haven't checked that on a whole lot of video, so I don't know how well that observation will hold up.

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  • (Score: 2) by takyon on Monday April 09 2018, @12:40AM (5 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Monday April 09 2018, @12:40AM (#664097) Journal

    720p is a good minimum. 480p can go away. 1080p for something you really want to pop, and anything higher for VR.

    --
    [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
    • (Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Monday April 09 2018, @06:56AM (4 children)

      by Dr Spin (5239) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:56AM (#664263)

      I sometimes listen to the TV when others are watching. I can't be bothered to watch, as the content is all drivel.

      0p is all its worth - and certainly the most I would pay.

      OTOH I have a 4k monitor for CAD work - but DXF files don't shout at me in high pitched voices and American accents,
      Do Americans really spend all day shouting at each other? Or is it just the kind of scum that work in the entertainment industry?

      --
      Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
      • (Score: 1) by anubi on Monday April 09 2018, @08:09AM (2 children)

        by anubi (2828) on Monday April 09 2018, @08:09AM (#664287) Journal

        American here... in the world I see, its hard to get by a day, especially in the workplace, without aggressive shouting and the like. Seems to be bred into us to relentlessly "get ahead", or someone else will get the grape, and you will be lucky to get cucumber. You try to overlook it, but know its a function of life, as likely the person creating the ruckus has probably had a bad day himself.

        One of the pitfalls of a "competitive, results-driven, crony-capitalist" system, where there is a winner and lots of loserds.

        --
        "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:50PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:50PM (#664460)

          I'm going to guess you live/work in the big city or a crowded suburb of the metropolis.
          It has always been aggressive living in crowded conditions.

          Less people = less aggro

          • (Score: 1) by anubi on Tuesday April 10 2018, @01:51AM

            by anubi (2828) on Tuesday April 10 2018, @01:51AM (#664768) Journal

            Southern California... near a really rich area ( Irvine ).

            Well, in small towns, you have to be nice... your neighbor may well determine whether you live or die.

            In a big crowded area, you have everything outsourced to a support service, paid for in advance. You don't need anyone. And it shows. All you need to survive is a cellphone and a charge card, and paid minions to take your call.

            --
            "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:56PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:56PM (#664464)

        What you are seeing is things getting louder to grab and hold the attention of young people who have a phone or tablet at hand competing for their attention with the TV.
        It's an arms race of stimulation, and it has gotten totally out of hand. It's sometimes unbearable in restaurants playing loud music in the background to give the environment "energy." Peace, can I have it? Sure, you can go to the spa where they sell that.

  • (Score: 3, Informative) by requerdanos on Monday April 09 2018, @01:07AM (5 children)

    by requerdanos (5997) Subscriber Badge on Monday April 09 2018, @01:07AM (#664110) Journal

    480 is quite acceptable

    There are some people who can't hear the difference between CD audio and 64kbps compressed. I am not one of those people, and I tend to prefer higher quality to lower (even as I lose high frequencies with age).

    And there are some people for whom 480 is quite acceptable compared to 4k. But like that watery audio file, 480p is what you get when you remove most of the details. There are just no words.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:22AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:22AM (#664112)

      Yup. I save time and money by listening to 64kbps audio. You gotta pay for the extra quality. Sucks to be you. Hope you're rich.

      • (Score: 2) by Virindi on Monday April 09 2018, @01:49AM

        by Virindi (3484) on Monday April 09 2018, @01:49AM (#664120)

        It's not "more expensive". Just buy used CDs for pennies, rip them, and encode to FLAC. The highest quality you'll ever need, for basically nothing.

      • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Monday April 09 2018, @09:19AM (1 child)

        by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Monday April 09 2018, @09:19AM (#664314) Homepage
        Enjoy your diet of wonderbread with crisco.

        Some of us care about what how we satiate our senses.
        --
        Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:42PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @02:42PM (#664454)

          Get off your high horse. You're boring.

    • (Score: 2) by toddestan on Wednesday April 11 2018, @03:10AM

      by toddestan (4982) on Wednesday April 11 2018, @03:10AM (#665211)

      Keep in mind that there's more than resolution. I've seen plenty of 1080P content that's been compressed to hell. Sure, it's technically 1080P, but that content in 720P that's been encoded at reasonable settings ends up looking far better. This can apply to a lot of cable/satellite TV where they compress the crap out of some (many) of the channels. I suspect in many cases if they insist on using such a low bitrate, they'd get better results by dropping the resolution too, but nope - gotta sell that HD package for extra $$$. On the other hand, OTA TV actually ends looking a lot better because each channel actually gets a reasonable amount of bandwidth.

  • (Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Monday April 09 2018, @01:50AM (1 child)

    by SomeGuy (5632) on Monday April 09 2018, @01:50AM (#664121)

    I used to watch DVDs on a computer with a VGA monitor long before "HD" television. When I saw the earlier tube-based HD TVs with HD programming, it hardly seemed like a big deal. The shift from analog signals to digital was what made the bigger difference, even on old analog TVs. Point is there is a lot of hype, and "HD" doesn't really give them as much as people think it does.

    Of course it is all fancy CGI with no content these days. Right now, I'd almost kill for some intelligent movies that don't try and sell me smartphones or tablets.

    • (Score: 1) by anubi on Monday April 09 2018, @06:49AM

      by anubi (2828) on Monday April 09 2018, @06:49AM (#664260) Journal

      For now, I am back to analog for re-encoding whatever to formats I have, namely, .mp3, .mp4.

      My bottleneck now is finding some way of re-coding something sent via HDMI. I never got a decent VGA to .MP4 "Hauppage" type board. I still run the old school NTSC digital encoders as a disk-based VCR. Anyone found a way to "DVR" an HDMI stream to .MP4? I don't really care if I lose resolution, as I don't really see all that well anymore, and anything too high res is just a waste.

      I'd much rather get 50 movies TF card, that I can play back through anything I find that has a browser and USB slot.

      And I definitely want to encode the stuff myself so I can edit crap out... especially nasty is the OTA stuff which is of such low quality that watching it without a video editor is like trying to eat a catfish without some way of deboning the thing.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
  • (Score: 0, Troll) by milsorgen on Monday April 09 2018, @05:25AM (3 children)

    by milsorgen (6225) on Monday April 09 2018, @05:25AM (#664211)

    Fuck all this nonsense. We had a working system for decades and then it's like hey let's make everyone buy new TVs for admittedly decent benefit in image quality. However where did the public's spectrum go? Probably not to anything for OTA, public resources should be used for benefit of all.

    Best part is? With these coming upgrades we are doing away with Free OTA broadcasting altogether. That's right soon you'll need a broadband connection to enjoy your "free" TV, gotta send targeted advertisements and usage data back to big corporate brother.

    https://www.tablotv.com/blog/what-cord-cutters-need-know-about-atsc-3/ [tablotv.com]

    It used to be the military-industrial complex that was the fear, I never thought it would be media and telecommunications corporations that would be the real threat through ever increasing revenue extraction and domination of the information we are allowed to receive. I wonder if we'll ever find a way to get back our liberties in the computer age, if we will ever have the balls to smash the corporations into the thousands of pieces they should be.

    --
    On the Oregon Coast, born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days...
    • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday April 09 2018, @02:23PM (2 children)

      by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday April 09 2018, @02:23PM (#664438) Journal

      From the article you linked:

      How ATSC 3.0 Works
      In a nutshell, ATSC 3.0 will be a hybrid television delivery system. The audio and video content will be broadcast OTA, and other content - like targeted ads - will be sent over your internet connection and integrated into the program. This will require a different kind of OTA tuner, which will essentially be an ATSC 3.0 home gateway that connects to your home WiFi router.

      No thanks.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:39PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @03:39PM (#664497)

        I'm going to hate the future when anonymity isn't allowed and every tv show is forever connected to my permanent record

        • (Score: 2) by LoRdTAW on Monday April 09 2018, @04:09PM

          by LoRdTAW (3755) on Monday April 09 2018, @04:09PM (#664518) Journal

          I already hate the future. They took our tools and turned them into pay-to-play toys.

  • (Score: 3, Touché) by Apparition on Monday April 09 2018, @05:45AM (2 children)

    by Apparition (6835) on Monday April 09 2018, @05:45AM (#664217) Journal

    I find 480p content no longer watchable. I try to watch some movies and television shows that are still only available on DVD, and they come across as either very grainy or smeary. Sometimes both. Within fifteen minutes every time I just turn it off. 720p is my bare minimum these days.

    However, 4K is overkill. The big difference is HDR. HDR makes a huge improvement in picture quality. It's quite noticeable, and it's hard to go back to SDR. Since HDR has been tied to 4K resolution, I'll take it.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:01PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 09 2018, @01:01PM (#664384)

      I find 480p content no longer watchable.

      Is it because of the material, or is it because your TV does a shitty job of displaying it? There's little incentive to make SD content look good when they want you to buy all your content again in HD.

      • (Score: 2) by toddestan on Wednesday April 11 2018, @03:02AM

        by toddestan (4982) on Wednesday April 11 2018, @03:02AM (#665209)

        It could easily be the latter as I've seen plenty of modern TVs that do a pretty shit job of handling low resolution content, or anything coming in the analog input. I hooked up a Super Nintendo to a modern TV and it looked simply awful. At first I just dismissed as myself being too used to modern graphics and remembering things through some rose-colored glasses. But even though it was a long time since I played it - it didn't seem like the graphics were that bad. Finally I moved the SNES over to the analog SD tube TV I still have, and the difference was night and day - now that's what I remember it looking like! While the VCR and VHS tapes are long gone, I would suspect they too would look way better on the old CRT than the LCD.

        Even so, if you can't watch something simply because it's 480P then I would say the content was probably shit anyway. If it was any good after a while you wouldn't even notice it's 480P, or in B&W for that matter.