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posted by Fnord666 on Wednesday April 18 2018, @01:18AM   Printer-friendly
from the just-ick dept.

http://aem.asm.org/content/84/8/e00044-18.abstract

Hot-air hand dryers in multiple men's and women's bathrooms in three basic science research areas in an academic health center were screened for their deposition on plates of (i) total bacteria, some of which were identified, and (ii) a kanamycin-resistant Bacillus subtilis strain, PS533, spores of which are produced in large amounts in one basic science research laboratory.

Plates exposed to hand dryer air for 30 s averaged 18 to 60 colonies/plate; but interior hand dryer nozzle surfaces had minimal bacterial levels, plates exposed to bathroom air for 2 min with hand dryers off averaged ≤1 colony, and plates exposed to bathroom air moved by a small fan for 20 min had averages of 15 and 12 colonies/plate in two buildings tested.

Retrofitting hand dryers with HEPA filters reduced bacterial deposition by hand dryers ∼4-fold, and potential human pathogens were recovered from plates exposed to hand dryer air whether or not a HEPA filter was present and from bathroom air moved by a small fan. Spore-forming colonies, identified as B. subtilis PS533, averaged ∼2.5 to 5% of bacteria deposited by hand dryers throughout the basic research areas examined regardless of distance from the spore-forming laboratory, and these were almost certainly deposited as spores. Comparable results were obtained when bathroom air was sampled for spores.

These results indicate that many kinds of bacteria, including potential pathogens and spores, can be deposited on hands exposed to bathroom hand dryers and that spores could be dispersed throughout buildings and deposited on hands by hand dryers.


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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:16AM (23 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:16AM (#668389) Journal

    Typical blower is just too damned noisy, for starters. I have no desire to advertise to everyone in the building that I'm in the bathroom, or that I'm washing my hands after having used the bathroom. Some few of those damned noisy boxes actually hurt the ears. Fek 'em - my hands can drip dry if all that's available is a blower.

    Next, many dryers never heat up. Some by design, I guess, others because the heating element has burnt. All you have is a little wind tunnel, designed to blow water off of your hands. I suppose that works, but plain old fashioned air drying also works. Why do I need a high-dollar wind tunnel to do what nature is going to do anyway?

    Many blowers are just so damned SLOW! Paper towels are alright - get three portions of paper towel, wipe hands, drop paper in the bin, all within about 30 seconds. Standing there listening to that blower whine, or keen, or moan seems to take forever, give or take a century.

    Then, there are the "high tech" no-touch devices. Not just the dryer, but the faucet, soap dispenser, and/or sanitizers. Many of them just refuse to see me. They won't acknowledge my presence, at all. The worst combination of blind no-touch devices are when the soap dispenser works for me, but the water faucet does not. So, there I stand with a handful of soap, and no water. Unless, of course, I first try the water, to ensure that I can get water to rinse away the soap.

    To hell with all this high tech bullshit. Just make sure I can get some water, and I'll be happy. I trust nature to dry my hands in due time.

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:25AM (14 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:25AM (#668393) Journal

    Oh, I forgot to mention those times when the bathroom REALLY takes a dislike to me. The water faucet may deign to see me, and award me with some running water. It stays on for about ten seconds, and cuts off. THEN it refuses to acknowledge my presence. I have one wet hand, I've reached for the soap, so the other hand is soapy. Try to get a little more water on the other hand - and no luck. I feel like the guy in the nursery rhyme - one shoe off, and one shoe on. WTF do I do now? If there were a paper towel available, I could use it to remove most of the soap, but they've got this stupid blower that has decided not to see me anyway. I guess I can try to remove most of the soap on the door knob as I exit this useless room . . . .

    • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:35AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:35AM (#668395)

      The blow driers are like a slow youtube video explanation when you want the text you can go through at your own (much faster) speed.

    • (Score: 4, Funny) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 18 2018, @03:35AM (3 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @03:35AM (#668412) Journal

      You shouldn't have sold your soul. Didn't you ever watch the Simpsons? They had an episode all about that.

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Wednesday April 18 2018, @03:25PM (2 children)

        by nitehawk214 (1304) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @03:25PM (#668611)

        Quick question: Can Vampires use the touchless faucets and dryers?

        --
        "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
        • (Score: 4, Informative) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 18 2018, @07:37PM (1 child)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @07:37PM (#668693) Journal

          Nope. They can't cross running water. Makes me wonder what happens when they go to take a leak...

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Thursday April 19 2018, @02:36PM

            by nitehawk214 (1304) on Thursday April 19 2018, @02:36PM (#669114)

            Must suck to be an OCD vampire.

            --
            "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
    • (Score: 4, Funny) by RS3 on Wednesday April 18 2018, @03:59AM (8 children)

      by RS3 (6367) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @03:59AM (#668421)

      Those various no-touch things work by sensing infrared. Body heat. Yeah, that. So, a few questions: do you see yourself in mirrors? Do you cast a shadow? Does light bother you so much you wouldn't try to cast a shadow? How about some nice garlic bread? Any aversion to a cross or crucifix? Just wondering.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:17PM (7 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday April 18 2018, @02:17PM (#668581) Journal

        No, none of the above. I have no idea why the sensors can sometimes see me, and other times not. My body temperature isn't below normal. No, I'm not a vampire. I'm not a lizard person. Beats hell out of me. I think the tech is faulty. The blower guy will tell you that I'm faulty. All I know for sure is, I have about a 25% chance of having an automated bathroom work for me.

        Wait - maybe we're both looking at this wrong . . . can a bathroom be possessed? Maybe there's a bathroom demon that follows me around, and possesses the bathroom equipment as I enter?

        • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday April 18 2018, @11:21PM

          by edIII (791) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @11:21PM (#668755)

          I'm with you. I have about a 25% success rate on those automatics. I've literally been in bathrooms going from faucet to faucet waving my hands around like a fucking lunatic, unless you knew of course, that there was technology allegedly designed to help me operate a fucking valve.

          I've said fuck it, and just started wiping my hands on my shirt towards my back. I never touch a bathroom door anyways. That's what my shirt corner is for. Those air dryers are a public health hazard, but the lobbyists make sure they don't get banned. Extremely ineffective at drying your hands, never hot enough, poorly maintained, and never cleaned.

          Maybe we should just go Chinese, which is to say that all you're provided with is running water. Maybe soap, but that is in upper scale restaurants or "Westernized" establishments. The culture over there has you bringing paper napkins to the restaurant, gas station, etc. The thing I like about that idea, is there is far less waste.

          --
          Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
        • (Score: 3, Funny) by RS3 on Thursday April 19 2018, @12:36AM

          by RS3 (6367) on Thursday April 19 2018, @12:36AM (#668774)

          I'm embarrassed, it was too late at night and my brain was not functioning fully. I was stuck on vampires and lizards and needed to think more broadly.

          When you read the word "brain", did you salivate?

        • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday April 19 2018, @12:38PM (4 children)

          by RS3 (6367) on Thursday April 19 2018, @12:38PM (#669046)

          It would be difficult to disprove your possession hypothesis, so I'll let that stand.

          I'm sure most people know the automatic faucets / dispensers use an IR (infrared) sensor. It's optically band-limited to human skin temperature. These sensors have been around for many years, in the early days mostly being seen in motion-activated outdoor light fixtures. Being inexpensively mass-produced, there's a "tolerance" on the spec, so some are better than others. Companies don't normally test things as much as we wish they would- don't want to hurt profit, right? Testing is done by the end user, warranty claim process. Blame the bean-counters and stock market.

          Anyway, that sensor has to be protected from environmental damage, so it's put behind some kind of window, which will affect the IR. Variations in that material will affect how well the thing works.

          Recently I was in an establishment that had many of these things and one time a drop of water landed on the faucet sensor window and the faucet would not stop running. Dumb design, the window being right behind the stream of water where normal hand washing splash will wet it. When I dried off the drop, the faucet stopped. I surmise the drop was a lens and gathered much IR from me.

          Another one was very finicky and on close inspection I noticed some tape residue on the little window. Rubbed it clean and it works well now.

          I usually have to put my hand pretty close to the sensor to trigger it. You may have thicker skin, or for whatever reason (apocalypse aside) just don't give off as much body heat. Find someone with an IR camera and see if you're as IR "bright" as other people.

          • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday April 19 2018, @01:37PM (3 children)

            by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 19 2018, @01:37PM (#669082) Journal

            That's an idea - find out what I look like on an IR sensor. A guy at work has one of those gadgets for finding electrical hot spots. He gives it very little serious use, just mostly playing with it. If I remember, I'll have him drag it out, and let me play with it. You've got me curious - do I glow less than other people? Thick skin? Maybe that explains why sensitivity training doesn't affect me. :^)

            • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday April 19 2018, @04:09PM (2 children)

              by RS3 (6367) on Thursday April 19 2018, @04:09PM (#669147)

              If you don't show up much in IR, I know of some three-letter agencies who might want to hire you.

              About a year ago a good friend of mine decided to get into the energy audit / inspection world. He bought a fancy IR camera, took a course, etc. The camera is truly awesome. You touch a fender and it's amazing how long the camera can see the handprint heat.

              BTW, not sure where you live, but if it's a warmer climate, perhaps background IR is affecting the IR sensors in the restrooms, etc.

              • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Thursday April 19 2018, @04:32PM (1 child)

                by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 19 2018, @04:32PM (#669150) Journal

                Well, the thing is, I don't hear other people complain about the things. I live in Arkansas, where it's pretty warm. But, we've had a nice cold winter - actually a long winter - and few restrooms are heated very warm. I should probably be the warmest thing in the room, even if I'm less visible than the average person. I can walk into a restroom, someone is washing, then leaving. I KNOW the stuff works, because he just had the water running, and lathered up hands. But, I do my thing, walk to the sink, and - nothing. Maybe the soap works, maybe the water works, but no towels. Or blower, as the case may be. Alternatively, everything works except the water. It's mix or match. I'll have to remember the bit about splashing water on the sensors - maybe that will help.

                Of course, it's merely an annoyance to me. I don't lose any sleep over a failure to wash my hands. That annoyance is tinged with humor, too. Electronics never work quite as expected, it seems. Those bathroom fixtures just confirm that belief - you can't count on electronic gadgetry.

                • (Score: 2) by RS3 on Thursday April 19 2018, @05:11PM

                  by RS3 (6367) on Thursday April 19 2018, @05:11PM (#669165)

                  I'm in PA but otherwise kindred spirit. I have a HUGE issue with _anything_ that doesn't serve the purpose: help the human. My biggest gripes, closely intertwined, are generally UI (including ergonomics) and overly-automated everything.

                  It would be a very different thing if you could adjust the IR sensors, but from what I've found, you can not. The sensor is a self-contained part with no adjustment. It just does its thing, and you have to like it.

                  My stupid car will automatically turn on the headlights, unless the sun is directly on the dashboard sensor. There is no adjustment. I've done enough circuit design to know that any kind of light sensor will have wide spec. tolerances and need human adjustable circuits, or self-normalizing / self-calibrating. Someday I'll build something to put in the circuit and give me adjustment. But that said, if my life is ever that slow, there are other things I want to do...

  • (Score: 2) by Rivenaleem on Wednesday April 18 2018, @08:10AM (2 children)

    by Rivenaleem (3400) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @08:10AM (#668491)

    As an experiment some time, shake the water off your hands into the sink 10-12 times. Then use ONE sheet of paper to dry your hands. Throw that sheet away and get another. After using the second sheet, examine it to see just how wet it got. A lot of people instinctively grab a whole bunch of sheets, scrunch them up and then throw mostly dry sheets into the trash. One sheet is all you need. You will see that your hands do not get much drier after using that first sheet.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @11:42AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @11:42AM (#668523)

      Often the sheet dispensers are so overfilled, that when you try to pull one you: 1) shred it in many pieces, or 2) pull a shitload of those towels in one go.

    • (Score: 2) by danaris on Wednesday April 18 2018, @12:54PM

      by danaris (3853) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @12:54PM (#668547)

      I've seen some advice that says shake off 12 times, then take 1 sheet and fold it in quarters. That seems like it's probably better than the standard way, but still always leaves my hands damp.

      I have, for years, taken 2 sheets together, dried, then taken a third sheet, and finished drying. The third sheet definitely, always, gets wet enough that you wouldn't want to use it for anything else.

      Dan Aris

  • (Score: 3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @12:21PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @12:21PM (#668539)

    Oh, now you've gone and triggered me... :)

    So, I go to the bathroom, touchless faucet, soap dispenser, and blower -- awesome, green, save mother nature, touchy feely tree-huggy virtue-signalling goodnes.

    Great, now after all that I have to GRAB. ON. TO. THE. FUCKING. DOOR HANDLE with BOTH HANDS and YANK HARD to try to get out of the fucking place. Same door handle presumably used by the guy before me who shot straight out of the stall and went for the door, presumably after having wiped his arse with his bare hands.

    How THE FUCK does THAT even make sense, who comes up with these shit-for-brains designs, is there a place they teach that?

    • (Score: 1) by nitehawk214 on Wednesday April 18 2018, @04:00PM

      by nitehawk214 (1304) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @04:00PM (#668623)

      Someone will say "those stainless steel door handles are self-sanitizing!" Yeah, except that only works if every single person washes their hands thoroughly before grabbing it with their filthy shit-hooks.

      As I learned from homebrewing, sanitization is only effective if the surface is completely clean.

      --
      "Don't you ever miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?" -Loiosh
    • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @05:06PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18 2018, @05:06PM (#668639)

      one bathroom on the entire campus where I work has one of these: http://www.stepnpull.com/ [stepnpull.com] which is absolutely awesome: no need to touch the door handle after cleaning one's hands, at all, no matter whether there are paper towels available or not.

      Trying to convince people to install these in more places, on the other hand, seems to be an uphill battle, for reasons I can't comprehend.

      And no, I don't work for these guys, there's lots of others if you google "bathroom door foot pedal" :)

    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Wednesday April 18 2018, @07:39PM

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @07:39PM (#668694) Journal

      Wait, so I'm the only one who uses her foot to open the door? Either with a sort of slow-motion crescent kick or simply wedging the toes of one shoe in the handle and pulling back? Huh...

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
    • (Score: 2) by edIII on Wednesday April 18 2018, @11:38PM

      by edIII (791) on Wednesday April 18 2018, @11:38PM (#668757)

      Yep, me too.

      The perfect bathroom has no door. It's an open entry, possibly with a privacy screening turn, hallway that brings you to all the sinks, soap dispensers, and hand dryers. Beyond that, is a series of not-bathroom-stalls, but actual personal bathrooms with a fucking lock, and floor to ceiling doors. At the very top you might put a grill for airflow, but nothing that allows entry, or surveillance. Other nice additions are a medical waste container (a lot more of us have to shoot up something legal these days). There are trashcans, even in the bathrooms themselves, and flushable tissues for those that need it.

      The hand dryers could be a good thing, if the airflow was controlled, MUCH faster, and significantly hotter. By controlled, I mean imagine you putting your hands into the wall. Multiple places, maybe 1 foot across and 6 inches high, at slightly different heights. It acts like one of those air vents you have in a chemistry lab. All of the airflow is maintained within the wall and the hood within. It creates negative pressure in the room, which means that nothing is getting out of those holes. Much easier to maintain and clean on a daily basis. Some HEPA filters, commercial UV, stainless-steel with silver linings in the wall, or some other suitable anti-microbial surface tech. It could even be self-cleaning.

      It's nice, efficient, solves the whole tranny-is-to-scary-to-be-in-a-bathroom-with-me silliness, environmentally friendlier, and is absolutely certain to never be built.

      --
      Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.