Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by janrinok on Thursday April 19 2018, @12:31AM   Printer-friendly
from the oh-good-stronger-copyright-laws-/s dept.

French president challenges 'inward-looking nationalist selfishness' in Europe:

Emmanuel Macron has outlined his vision for the future of the European Union in Strasbourg. The 40-year-old, who secured the French Presidency in May on a pro-EU platform amid a populist surge in the bloc, delivered his highly anticipated speech to over 700 MEPs in the European Parliament on Tuesday.

Macron challenged "inward-looking nationalist selfishness" amid populist sentiment in the bloc and pushed for a more united and reinvigorated Europe. "Nationalism will lead Europe into the abyss. We see authoritarianism rising all around us," he said. "The response should not be authoritarian democracy but the authority of democracy."

Macron also sought to tackle the "poisoned debate" on migration, proposing the creation of a European programme that could subsidise local authorities which host and integrate refugees.

In a speech which touched on a range of issues, Macron recommended that copyright law be tightened to protect artists' "genius" and reiterated his support for tougher environmental legislation.

Meanwhile, Macron wants to "reform" Islam:

Speaking alongside the flag-draped coffin of a police officer killed in a terrorist attack in southern France, President Emmanuel Macron last month lay blame on "underground Islamism" and those who "indoctrinate on our soil and corrupt daily." The attack added further urgency to a project already in the works: Macron has embarked on a controversial quest to change Islam in France — with the goal of integration but also preventing radicalization.

He has said that in the coming months he will announce "a blueprint for the whole organization" of Islam. And those trying to anticipate what that will look like are turning their attention to Hakim El Karoui, a leading voice on how Islamic traditions fit within French culture.

It's hard to miss that the man who appears to have Macron's ear on this most sensitive of subjects cuts a similar figure. Like the president, El Karoui is an ex-Rothschild investment banker with an elite social pedigree who favors well-tailored suits, crisp white shirts and the lofty province of big ideas. The latest of those ideas is this: that the best way to integrate Islam within French society is to promote a version of the religion "practiced in peace by believers who will not have the need to loudly proclaim their faith."

Also at BBC.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 0, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 19 2018, @06:27AM (5 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday April 19 2018, @06:27AM (#668896)

    You say "since the Bible is without fault, its the actual word of God", but no, Christians do not believe that each and every word is set down perfectly by god. There are many translations, and mostly we don't even have the original text.

    The Koran is seen as literal text from god. God made Mohammed say stuff, and then god guided the people who wrote it down. Every word is perfectly accurate, straight from god. If you dare question this, it becomes the duty of every moslem to kill you.

    So the situations are fundamentally different. Islam is immune to reformation.

    Starting Score:    0  points
    Moderation   0  
       Troll=1, Informative=1, Total=2
    Extra 'Informative' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   0  
  • (Score: 1) by pTamok on Thursday April 19 2018, @09:56AM (4 children)

    by pTamok (3042) on Thursday April 19 2018, @09:56AM (#668964)

    WIth regard to Islam and the Reformation, I would gently encourage you to read and reflect upon this article:

    Why Islam doesn’t need a reformation [theguardian.com]. I don't think I would wish the consequences of such a reformation on people.

    Rather than a Reformation, I would fervently wish for an Age of Enlightenment [wikipedia.org] that this time doesn't end with a bloody revolution.

    • (Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Thursday April 19 2018, @06:45PM (3 children)

      by PocketSizeSUn (5340) on Thursday April 19 2018, @06:45PM (#669220)

      I fervently disagree. Islam does need a reformation, among a long laundry list of the faults in is core tenets is in Muslim / Non-Muslim power balance. For a Muslim, the Non-Muslim is a strictly lesser being with lesser rights and lower status. This is a fundamental problem that cannot be solved without a significant and real reformation. Yes there is a wide range of among Muslims from liberal to conservative, however the vast majority are conservative and becoming more polarized, extreme and growing in numbers, simply because the overwhelming interpretation of the Quran is that the conservative and radical groups are acting as dictated by Mohammed and the liberals and moderates are not. Without a reformation liberal and moderate Muslims have no basis to defend their action/in-action. The most liberal of Islamic adherents are Sufi. Sufism and Sufi persecution has been ongoing and increasing more violent.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism [wikipedia.org]
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Sufis [wikipedia.org]

      Muslim intolerance can only be reformed from within. Unfortunately as there is no central governing authority in Islam there is no realistic model by which an Islamic reformation can occur.
      At best you can have Summits of influential Imams agree to some reformations but there is no requirement or expectation that other Imams will adhere.
      This is complicated when it is governments like Saudi/Iran that are backing these conservative Imams to maintain power there is little reason to expect any such Imams to agree to any reformation that does not consolidate their power. Without those Imams participation any Summit of Imams is simply not workable, no matter how much liberal and moderate Muslims would like to see such a reform.

      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday April 19 2018, @08:25PM

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Thursday April 19 2018, @08:25PM (#669276) Journal

        Not really. All they need to do is recognize that "Allah" isn't a name, but a description in a particular language. And that "god" is the same description in another language. Then any believer in a god would, by following the tenets of their faith, be a Muslim. This would render the particular characteristics of the god, such as how it should be worshiped, matters subject to argument and mutual toleration.

        If I have the prayer correctly is goes something like "la illah Allah", which I would translate into English as "the god is God". Since this is a tautology, few would argue with it. (OTOH, I don't understand Arabic, so I may have garbled it...but I don't think so. But perhaps it should be "the god is The God".)

        With this reformulation, agnostics would become "seekers". Those to whom knowledge of God has not yet been revealed. And atheists and materialists would be those who have mistaken the visible signs of God for God. And seen as sincere devotees with shallow minds.

        So, in principle, no reformation is needed.

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
      • (Score: 1) by pTamok on Friday April 20 2018, @07:39AM (1 child)

        by pTamok (3042) on Friday April 20 2018, @07:39AM (#669548)

        One slight problem is that what you see as faults are regarded by many (not all) Muslims as the correct state of things. Of course non-Muslims are lesser beings, just as some (not all) Crusaders believed Muslims to be no better than animals, or settlers of the American West regarded Indians as nuisances to be exterminated, or plantation owners regarded black-Africans as less-developed than non-black people, and certainly not equal. Changing such mindsets is not an easy or short process.
        The trouble is, reformation may not mean what you think it means. The (Protestant) Reformation was a result of informed protest against certain practices of the Roman (Catholic) Church and can be characterised as a call for a more conservative or fundamentalist approach - to an extent Wahhabism is a successful reformation of the Islamic faith along the same lines. The roots of the Protestant Reformation lie partly in Lollardism, where John Wycliffe (among other things) regarded the veneration of saints as idolatry. Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703-1792 CE) regarded (among other things) the veneration of saints as idolatry...
        One of the points the Protestant Reformation covered was the reaction against having a central authority, so lack of a central authority does not prevent reformation.
        Calling for a reformation of Islam along more liberal lines, especially if you are a non-Muslim, is unlikely to gain a great deal of traction. The Protestant Reformation ended up with the 30-years war [wikipedia.org], concluded by the Peace of Westphalia (1648). To an extent, you can see the conflicts between Shia and Sunni Muslims as an analogue of the same process.
        This is why I suggested earlier than working for an Enlightenment may be a more constructive approach. If you can persuade people that their quality of life will be improved if they follow certain practices, you have a good chance of getting your message acted upon. The method used by many religious practitioners is to get people to accept privations in their 'earthly life' in exchange for an unevidenced promise of a better life after death. Giving people what they regard as a viable alternative to that pact could work wonders in the long term.

        • (Score: 2) by PocketSizeSUn on Friday April 20 2018, @05:27PM

          by PocketSizeSUn (5340) on Friday April 20 2018, @05:27PM (#669721)

          Of course non-Muslims are lesser beings

          It is dictated by the Quran, so technically it is all Muslims. Do all Muslims act that way? Of course not. I spend half of my time in Muslim majority countries but I don't run around with blinders or an overly optimistic understandings of what is going on around me.

          The method used by many religious practitioners is to get people to accept privations in their 'earthly life' in exchange for an unevidenced promise of a better life after death. Giving people what they regard as a viable alternative to that pact could work wonders in the long term.

          Firstly privations in their 'earthly life' is not a part of any Muslim sect. That is only exists as a Christian (New Testament) ideal. Islam is very much an eye-for-an-eye dog-eat-dog world view.

          And yes, economic abundance can be seen as a general correlation to religious moderation. However you should understand that the basis of the moderation is simply a lesser need to impose religious law on others for self enrichment and entitlement and not a general softening of core beliefs.

          I am not at all opposed to religious faith of any kind, I am however opposed to religious law, in all forms. The core tenets of the Quran require Sharia Law and that is the reform that needs to happen. Not the sophist 'Allah' is just another name for 'God' so we are all Muslims, it is divorcing Sharia from the Quran. IMO that can only start when Saudi doesn't need Sharia to 'stomp on it's people', which is likely to happen some time after their oil runs out.