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posted by mrpg on Sunday April 29 2018, @01:51AM   Printer-friendly
from the there's-always-a-secondary-effect dept.

[...] The research team studied the medical records of 40,770 patients aged over 65 diagnosed with dementia, and compared them to the records of 283,933 people without dementia. More than 27 million prescriptions were analysed.

[...] They found that there was a greater incidence of dementia among patients prescribed greater quantities of anticholinergic antidepressants, and anticholinergic medication for bladder conditions and Parkinson's.

[...] "We studied patients with a new dementia diagnosis and looked at what anticholinergic medication they were prescribed between four and 20 years prior to being diagnosed.

"We found that people who had been diagnosed with dementia were up to 30 per cent more likely to have been prescribed specific classes of anticholinergic medications. And the association with dementia increases with greater exposure to these types of medication.

"What we don't know for sure is whether the medication is the cause. It could be that these medications are being prescribed for very early symptoms indicating the onset of dementia.

"But because our research shows that the link goes back up to 15 or 20 years before someone is eventually diagnosed with dementia, it suggests that reverse causation, or confounding with early dementia symptoms, probably isn't the case.


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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday April 29 2018, @02:33AM (17 children)

    by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday April 29 2018, @02:33AM (#673214) Homepage

    That's called in the 'biz an "off-label use case." Nutbags are prescribed anti-seizure drugs, for example, in an attempt to attenuate their nutbaggy symptoms.

    Of course, nowadays, big pharma is not to be trusted. It wasn't always that way, though. Education is a good example of that. Education was once about educating, before Education became big business. Same with Defense. And making drugs to save lives.

    The flu vaccine is a good example. Polio was a bitch but the flu isn't. Now everybody is supposed to receive flu vaccines, even that was something everybody just dealt with back when I was a kid. Now you have all this hysterical scaremongering, with not only the next "potentially lethal" strain of plain flu coming down the pipeline, but swine flu and bird flu and whatnot.

    I get modded down over and over again for talking shit about vaccination. I am not anti-vaccination when the intent is pure, to save lives rather than to make money. In modern times, however, only a fool would drink the vaccination kool-aid. It's time for a tangent here, those of you who have served in the military were pumped full of vaccines all at once and on your second or third day. The worst part of basic training is not that you have to be in basic training, it's that you have to do the first few weeks sick off your ass from all the vaccines you get pumped with. Rumor has it that the worst one is the Polio vaccine, the single sweet-tasting red droplet they put on your tongue.

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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29 2018, @02:48AM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29 2018, @02:48AM (#673219)

    Education is a good example of that. Education was once about educating, before Education became big business.

    Education is still about education, but schooling is not about education. In fact, schooling largely never was about education, despite the fact that it's supposed to be so. Separate the two things in your mind and you will be better off.

    • (Score: 1) by Ethanol-fueled on Sunday April 29 2018, @02:52AM

      by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Sunday April 29 2018, @02:52AM (#673220) Homepage

      Going by your logic, "schooling" is getting the flu and spending those uncomfortable days puking your guts out at midnight.

      "Education," by your logic, is getting the vaccine and then doing the same anyway. But I am not that smart, perhaps I misinterpreted you?

  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by takyon on Sunday April 29 2018, @03:23AM (11 children)

    by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Sunday April 29 2018, @03:23AM (#673230) Journal

    So you deny that tens of thousands of people die from the flu each year in the U.S.?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/04/27/flu-season-vaccines-universal-influenza-column/551978002/ [usatoday.com]
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/health/flu-rates-deaths.html [nytimes.com]

    [The 2017-2018 season] is now on track to equal or surpass that of the 2014-2015 flu season. In that year, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates, 34 million Americans got the flu, 710,000 were hospitalized and about 56,000 died.

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    • (Score: 2) by crafoo on Sunday April 29 2018, @04:22AM (3 children)

      by crafoo (6639) on Sunday April 29 2018, @04:22AM (#673235)

      Was it there time?
      Should everyone be given a DMT dose instead of the vaccine?
      I say yes. But you're average McD's Burger says no.
      Who to believe?

      • (Score: 4, Informative) by takyon on Sunday April 29 2018, @04:40AM (2 children)

        by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Sunday April 29 2018, @04:40AM (#673242) Journal

        A DMT trip lasts about 10 minutes [erowid.org], Mr. Crapoo. If you really want America to shit its collective pants, what you need is a DMT drip [vice.com].

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        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29 2018, @11:00AM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29 2018, @11:00AM (#673341)

          nono, that is if you extract and smoke it.
          i
          f you consume the beverage (the original concoction, essentially), it lasts for hours. Too long, too intense for many people if it is strong, but chances are you may vomit some of that out. it lasts so long you better have nothing else planned, and hopefully someone else is going to attend to your physical needs. or that you thought ahead and know the dose and how it is likely to affect you (and have a bucket and snacks nearby... in case walking is difficult).

          but... the smoked dmt trip, even if for 10 minutes, will put you in a place you may still believe could not even be imagined had you not seen it, so if you got the money, go get some. it won't change politics, your love life, or make you successful, but it might be very profound.

          the iv drip is really a fantastic notion i'd want if I was terminally ill and in a hospice and already said by goodbyes and was waiting for the end. may as well go on a high note

          • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday April 29 2018, @03:11PM

            by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Sunday April 29 2018, @03:11PM (#673409) Journal

            There are other chemicals in ayahuasca [wikipedia.org] that cause the experience to be different than straight DMT. Even if the big difference is extra nausea:

            https://thethirdwave.co/ayahuasca-vs-dmt/ [thethirdwave.co]

            If ayahuasca contains DMT, why does the ayahuasca experience last so much longer than smoking DMT?

            We believe the answer is due to the means of ingestion. When you drink an ayahuasca brew, all the DMT is absorbed through your stomach lining. This is a slower form of DMT ingestion, so the DMT molecules won’t reach your brain as quickly, and won’t all be absorbed through your stomach at the same time. When you smoke DMT, the molecules are absorbed straight into your bloodstream through your lungs, meaning all the DMT hits your brain at once, very quickly. This is why, despite DMT being present in ayahuasca, the experiences can be very different.

            [...] As mentioned above, ayahuasca also contains MAOIs, and sometimes a variety of other plants depending on the region in which it’s made.

            Although the main role of the MAOIs in ayahuasca is to allow you to absorb DMT, they have also been implicated in psychedelic effects [nih.gov] themselves. It’s also the MAOIs that are responsible for the ‘purge’ at the beginning of the ayahuasca experience.

            One study [peerj.com] suggests that one of the MAOIs in ayahuasca can stimulate the growth of new brain cells in the lab – meaning it’s possible that the substance stimulates the formation of new connections in the brain.

            It’s most likely, however, that the moderate psychedelic effects of the MAOIs in ayahuasca are overwhelmed by the intense effects of the DMT.

            If you take ayahuasca, it’s important to remember that MAOIs can be very toxic when combined with certain other drugs or foods. Here is a complete list [ayahuasca.com] of the substances and foods that should be avoided when you take ayahuasca.

            If ayahuasca use is characterized by gradual absorption of DMT, the DMT drip could be considered the "sustained intense" version.

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    • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday April 29 2018, @08:19AM (4 children)

      by sjames (2882) on Sunday April 29 2018, @08:19AM (#673302) Journal

      Those very real deaths and hospitalizations aren't spread evenly across demographics. SOME age groups should probably get the flu shot. In others, it's not so important. Some years it's practically worthless for any demographic.

      • (Score: 2) by takyon on Sunday April 29 2018, @03:15PM (2 children)

        by takyon (881) <takyonNO@SPAMsoylentnews.org> on Sunday April 29 2018, @03:15PM (#673411) Journal

        Well, let's hope your case of the flu doesn't spread to some weak kid or senior citizen.

        https://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm [cdc.gov]

        One thing you could do is just get it when it is offered for free.

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        • (Score: 2) by sjames on Sunday April 29 2018, @09:12PM

          by sjames (2882) on Sunday April 29 2018, @09:12PM (#673483) Journal

          That too is a matter of circumstance. Certainly if you will have significant contact with a vulnerable person, you should get the shot.

          But especially in years where the vaccine is in short supply, if you're not a member of a vulnerable group and not in close contact with a vulnerable person, it's probably better to wait.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 30 2018, @07:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 30 2018, @07:38PM (#673880)

          56k out of 34 million? sounds like nature keeping things healthy to me. if the shot works so good then the people who take it needn't worry. nor should they worry about the soft kill weapon they are being shot up with since they are ignorant, suckling babes at the breast of mother Govarma.

      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Monday April 30 2018, @01:04AM

        by frojack (1554) on Monday April 30 2018, @01:04AM (#673552) Journal

        Alot of those flu deaths this past cycle were IN SPITE OF being vaccinated.
        The vaccine was about 30% effective on average.

        NOTE: Herd immunity does not require perfectly effective vaccines, but when you send your kid to school
        to sit in a classroom full of snot nosed sickos you would kind of like the vaccine to work.

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    • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Sunday April 29 2018, @06:24PM (1 child)

      by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Sunday April 29 2018, @06:24PM (#673446) Journal

      Compared to polio, the flu is trivial. Even the 1914 epidemic, which really killed lots of people was trivial. Because with polio a lot of the survivors were permanently impaired. Some of them needed to live inside a machine their entire lives.

      OTOH, there's a lot more varieties of flu. Whoops! Just surviving one kind doesn't make you immune to the rest. Still, a relatively small number of people die from it in most years, and almost nobody who survives it is permanently impaired.

      So it's a trade off. Personally, I get a flu shot every year, but I don't think of it as in the same league as tetanus, or polio, or smallpox. But this is my personal evaluation. I figure everyone's going to die sometime, but it's worse to live a life of suffering. And this is unreasonable, as I know that most people who are suffering would not choose to die...and unless it were severe, neither would I. My guess is I've got an inconsistent goal stack, but they *are* my goals. I don't want to change any of them. Certainly not just for the sake of logical consistency.

      You could also argue probability. Most people who get the flu recover normally. It's not like rheumatic fever, where you're likely to end up with a damaged heart. It's been well over century since we've had a really bad flu pandemic, so most people who ever got the flu recovered without problems.

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      • (Score: 2) by frojack on Monday April 30 2018, @01:20AM

        by frojack (1554) on Monday April 30 2018, @01:20AM (#673556) Journal

        Just surviving one kind doesn't make you immune to the rest.

        There is actually work afoot to use that rapid mutation tendency of flu as a weapon against it.

        This team, led by Ren Sun at the University of California Los Angeles, turned the tables on the mutation-prone virus. They made use of the virus’s tendency to mutate.

        They mutated flu viruses even more, and came up with a version that was especially vulnerable to the body’s immune system. At the same time, the virus became wimpy and did not spread well in the body.

        The mutations made the virus very susceptible to immune system signaling proteins called interferons.

        The vaccine should work against various strains of influenza, something that current vaccines cannot do. Right now, the annual flu vaccine is a cocktail that protects against either three or four different strains of flu. A so-called universal flu vaccine would protect against many or even all strains of flu and would, ideally, protect people for longer than just one year.

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  • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday April 29 2018, @04:54AM

    by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday April 29 2018, @04:54AM (#673243) Homepage Journal

    Mitch McConnell, people don't know this, he had polio. And it crippled him. Vaccines are very important. Certain ones. The ones that would prevent death or crippling. There are others, there are a multitude of vaccines which probably don't fit in that category, and there should be some discretion in those cases. I am totally in favor of vaccines, but I want smaller doses over a longer period of time.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29 2018, @06:17AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 29 2018, @06:17AM (#673259)

    "off-label pharmaceuticals" for Ethanol_funneled syndrome? There are none. The only moderately effective therapy for Ethanol_fueling syndrome is massive and sustained down-modding, and even then the effects are temporary and effervescent. So here is a vaccination for your pimply ass, you anti-semitic racist, education-resistant, under-bridge-dwelling cancre on the ass of humanity!

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 30 2018, @01:03AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 30 2018, @01:03AM (#673551)

    Blah, blah, blah, stupid stuff, blah, blah, blah. And gay.