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posted by Fnord666 on Tuesday May 08 2018, @01:32AM   Printer-friendly
from the Tesla-guts-everywhere dept.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-3-teardown-details/

MotorTrend is running an overview of the 6000-person-hour teardown of a Tesla Model 3 by Munro & Associates, a well known reverse engineering and manufacturing consulting firm. A couple of details from the text (there are many photos as well):

Front Upper Control Arm—These are formed of thinner-gauge stamped steel then reinforced by having plastic webbing molded inside. This plastic also provides attachment points for routing the ABS sensor wiring. The oddity: Note the ingot of iron that is glued in place (held by zip-ties while glue sets). Munro reckons this is to dampen a troublesome natural frequency.

Charging Board—This large, complex board filters electricity coming in from the charger with the tall and modular board at right. This board is tailored to suit the electrical service of the vehicle's destination country. This U.S.-market car is prepped for three-phase current, so there are three big copper donuts under that board that look like the one on the left side of the board (that one handles the conversion to 12 volts). This approach is unique and deemed quite savvy relative to the Chevy Bolt and BMW i3 Munro has also analyzed.

Overall, they liked the electronics and panned much of the mechanical design and fastening/welding details--relative to current practice at other auto manufacturers. Which kind of makes sense given Tesla's location near Silicon Valley, and far from Detroit (although Tesla has hired many experienced engineers from existing car companies & suppliers).

The article includes a link to an overview of this analysis, which was published last week.


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by KilroySmith on Tuesday May 08 2018, @03:58AM (18 children)

    by KilroySmith (2113) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @03:58AM (#676888)

    I'll start with the fact that I picked my Model 3 up last Thursday. None of the build quality issues that he pointed out (panel alignment, etc) exist on my car. It drives like a go-cart, driving down the road it's the quietest car I've ever been in, and there's nothing like stomping the accelerator on a Tesla.

    In the Tesla community, it's unclear where Munro & Associates got their Model 3's. Even people with the earliest builds don't see the kinds of flaws that Munro found. Early builds did have some poor panel alignments; but I don't have that on mine.

    The strange thing about Munro's analysis is that he is critical about what he's familiar with (body panels), and liked just about everything else (the things he didn't understand). What's worse is that he was just wrong about those things he didn't understand. For example, the quote in the summary ("This U.S.-market car is prepped for three-phase current,") is complete nonsense - no US Tesla ever sees three-phase power. Here, they all use single-phase 120V or 240V AC, or DC from Superchargers. In Europe, three-phase power is common, and those Teslas are equipped with a different charging connector that does use three phase. The board he's showing does look like it's set up for three-phase - which means it could be a motor driver board (the motors are driven with three-phase waveforms), or perhaps it handles regeneration (the motors would generate three-phase power), although the board doesn't look like it could handle the roughly 50KW that a Model 3 can regenerate.

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  • (Score: 4, Interesting) by vux984 on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:10AM (4 children)

    by vux984 (5045) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:10AM (#676902)

    "I'll start with the fact that I picked my Model 3 up last Thursday."

    You basically led with 'Tesla fan who just got brand new car he pre-ordered year(s) ago still likes it 4 days after he gets it.' but at least you're honest.

    I honestly haven't driven a 3 yet. The exterior styling is very nice. Exceptionally so. Props to Tesla on the exterior.

    The motor, and range, charging, battery and other EV characteristics are quite impressive especially relative to the extant competition.

    My impressions with the Model S was, yes, the acceleration is stunning but it handled like a boat. And I'm not really expecting a lot more from the model 3. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but its not a sports car and I don't expect it will handle much like one, despite the acceleration and torque characteristics.

    And I personally abhor the cockpit and dashboard; like its truly the most hideous thing I've ever seen. I thought the model S was unpleasant, but the model 3 interior and dashboard has less charisma than a park bench. I like the prius more than this, and I hate the prius.

    Separately from the overall interior aesthetic i dislike and disagree with the big touchscreen that is the hallmark of a tesla. I find it a distraction while driving and just generally an awkward ui. Plus I don't want to talk to my car. I don't want to play with a touch screen while driving.

    That said, I like the fact Tesla exists and hope the company succeeds. I may not particularly like or want one, but i think they've done the industry a lot of good by showing up and dragging electrics into the mainstream.

    • (Score: 4, Interesting) by KilroySmith on Tuesday May 08 2018, @06:07AM (2 children)

      by KilroySmith (2113) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @06:07AM (#676912)

      The 3 is said to handle much better than the S - it's 1000 pounds lighter. But it's not a sports car, and isn't intended to be one. Your comment about "boat" indicates to me that you'd want to wait for the Roadster 2, which is intended to be a sports car - though probably not a competent track car.

      Frankly, I like the simplistic elegance of the bare dashboard. I don't really need a fake oil pressure gauge, water temperature gauge, or tachometer. I don't need to pretend I'm in a 1900's steam locomotive, or the 1970's Space Shuttle, with innumerable gauges, switches, and knobs.

      That said, the wood trim is a bit strange - but for a few bucks I can turn that into carbon fiber, or body colored, or whatever.

      • (Score: 3, Funny) by kazzie on Tuesday May 08 2018, @12:31PM

        by kazzie (5309) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 08 2018, @12:31PM (#676999)

        I don't need to pretend I'm in a 1900's steam locomotive

        Now I'm picturing a Tesla with a regulator, cut-off valve, steam pressure gauge, sanding equipment, etc...

      • (Score: 2) by vux984 on Wednesday May 09 2018, @04:50PM

        by vux984 (5045) on Wednesday May 09 2018, @04:50PM (#677497)

        "Frankly, I like the simplistic elegance of the bare dashboard."

        I appreciate elegance, but I feel like I'm intended to be a passenger in that car not the driver. So its a total turn-off for me.

        "I don't really need a fake oil pressure gauge, water temperature gauge, or tachometer."

        Fair enough. How about turn signal indicator lights, a button to turn the hazard lights on and off. A clock. An odometer. A speedometer. Energy saver mode / Battery capacity/range indicator/charging status. Highbeam indicator. Parking brake indicator. I mean, sure its all available on the TV in the center but a few indicators on the dash, and I could turn the damn tv off. I shouldnt need it to be on. If I'm not using the GPS, and I'm driving... i'd want to turn it off. But I do need a few things... like a volume knob for the radio, a fuel guage/battery meter, a speedometer, and a clock would be nice. Forcing me to use the TV for that again, is a total turn off for me.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:35PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:35PM (#677104)

      i think the cockpit looks pretty nice but that touchpad is ridiculous looking. maybe i could get used to it b/c they obviously chose function over form. i would want all FOSS firmware or at least if the company were haxxor friendly. also, i want a solar panel roof, and hood. i don't drive very much and i want it charging while it sits in the sun for the whole week/two. i don't want to have to plug it in when i haven't been driving much. I also want all wheel drive. maybe give me $1000 off to put 'tesla' where the grille would be? make it tasteful and i may agree. either way it looks like something needs to go there. i'm also not interested in getting screwed on the batteries later. i expect tesla to be able to recycle them and i just pay the swap out labor, if that. make a robot that eats batteries and poops raw materials, iow.

  • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:22AM

    by Whoever (4524) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:22AM (#676904) Journal

    Every time I drive mine, I have a huge grin on my face. It's a blast.

    I find the touchscreen very usable. It took a few days to get used to it, but now that I am, it's good.

    Have you tried touching the voice command icon and then saying "Ho Ho Ho" yet?

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Whoever on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:26AM

    by Whoever (4524) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @05:26AM (#676905) Journal

    He also makes some other dubious claims, such as claiming that robots are "blind". A quick Internet search shows that it is possible to buy robots with 2D and 3D vision.

    I am sure he has very talented and knowledgeable people on his staff, but I suspect he is a decade or two out of date.

  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday May 08 2018, @06:45AM (10 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 08 2018, @06:45AM (#676922) Journal

    In Europe, three-phase power is common...

    Say... what? You count earth-protection as a "phase"?

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by KilroySmith on Tuesday May 08 2018, @06:51AM (9 children)

      by KilroySmith (2113) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @06:51AM (#676924)
      • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday May 08 2018, @07:02AM (8 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 08 2018, @07:02AM (#676929) Journal

        Ah, I see. Your phrase is meant as "In Europe, three-phase power is common for recharging electric cars at charge stations" - that socket is not at all common inside the usual European home.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 3, Informative) by ledow on Tuesday May 08 2018, @07:32AM (7 children)

          by ledow (5567) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @07:32AM (#676938) Homepage

          It's not at all common precisely because houses don't have 3-phase. That's not what 3-phase is for. You generally give one phase to each house on the street, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3 and the STREET has three-phase. If you're a huge business you might ask for 3-phase to be installed, so long as you balance your usage of the phases properly, and your usage of them is actually required (e.g. high-power equipment - in Europe anywhere you see the line "415v" generally means it's three-phase (because the voltage from top of one phase to bottom of any other is 415v) and that's usually industrial use. So, yes, a refuelling station might well have 3-phase. But a house, no.

          That's no more common than in the US, though.

          • (Score: 2, Interesting) by evk on Tuesday May 08 2018, @09:51AM (4 children)

            by evk (597) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @09:51AM (#676970)

            I guess it may be different around Europe, but here all houses have 3-phase. Kitchen stoves are often connected on three phases. Apart from that you'd usually don't have 3-phase outlets except in garages and such. But single phase outlets in the house would be balanced over the three phases. Just as you describe the street, but it's done on parts of the house.

            For larger power tools such as welders, air compressors etc. 3-phase is very common.

            • (Score: 2) by ledow on Tuesday May 08 2018, @11:28AM (1 child)

              by ledow (5567) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @11:28AM (#676986) Homepage

              So actually, it's LESS likely that the Europe version is the reason that there's anything about 3-phase in there, as you're more likely to use that in the US than Europe.

              I suppose with 110v, that's necessary to get the right amount of oomph without larger cabling.

              P.S. A standard UK house has a 100A breaker on the incoming fusebox, the stove will probably take (not all of) a 32A breaker. Which gives you 7.6KW, which is more than enough for an electrical double-oven with hob, without needing any extra phases. I don't think I've ever seen a private dwelling with more than one phase.

              • (Score: 1) by evk on Wednesday May 09 2018, @09:22AM

                by evk (597) on Wednesday May 09 2018, @09:22AM (#677384)

                As I said. That's probably different in different Europeans countries. Here (Sweden) the norm is 3 phases with 16A fuses on each phase. As far as I know _all_ houses have three phases.

                But I do agree that it would make sense to use 3 phases in the US even though I understand that it's not all that common.

            • (Score: 1) by Muad'Dave on Thursday May 10 2018, @02:33PM (1 child)

              by Muad'Dave (1413) on Thursday May 10 2018, @02:33PM (#677880)

              Are you in the US? If so I think you're confusing 240V with 3 phase.

              120V is 1 hot + the neutral. 240V is usually 2 hots with 240V between them and optionally the neutral. Here in the US we have split-phase 240V power [wikipedia.org] in houses, NOT 3 phase. If you look at Figure 1 in the link, 120V outlets are hooked up between either V1 or V2 and neutral, and 240V outlets use V1 _and_ V2, and optionally the neutral. Stoves, air conditioners, water heaters, etc use 240V circuits.

              Three phase [wikipedia.org], on the other hand, uses 3 hots and usually no neutral (unless it's 3 phase wye - see Y/Delta figure). This is only used in industrial applications.

              • (Score: 1) by evk on Friday May 11 2018, @11:19AM

                by evk (597) on Friday May 11 2018, @11:19AM (#678309)
                No, I'm not in the US. I'm in Europe and I'm talking about three phases with 240V each. I have plenty of equipment that runt on three phases, non of it industrial.

                I don't think I've ever seen a private dwelling with more than one phase.

                This may be true for the UK, but not for all of Europe.

          • (Score: 2) by deimtee on Tuesday May 08 2018, @10:10AM (1 child)

            by deimtee (3272) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @10:10AM (#676976) Journal

            Similar in Oz, although I think it may be a bit more common. I've known several people who had three-phase to their home, and almost any manufacturing business will have it. Pedantic nitpick: 415v isn't from the top of one wave to the bottom of another, that would be 480V. It's the RMS voltage of two 240V AC phases that are 120 degrees apart.

            --
            If you cough while drinking cheap red wine it really cleans out your sinuses.
            • (Score: 2) by ledow on Tuesday May 08 2018, @11:30AM

              by ledow (5567) on Tuesday May 08 2018, @11:30AM (#676987) Homepage

              Pedantic nitpick acknowledged.

              I'm going to hide behind "My answer was correct enough for people to understand what I'm getting at". :-)