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posted by Fnord666 on Friday May 11 2018, @11:11PM   Printer-friendly
from the controversial-topics dept.
Arthur T Knackerbracket has found the following story:

Over the last several months, I’ve witnessed many controversial discussions among my friends, in my San Francisco community, and on online forums about James Demore’s memorandum. People of both genders are wrestling with the fact that fewer women go into computer science and trying to find explanations that balance their experience, empathy, and ethical aspirations. I’ve heard lots of good-intentioned people consider discouraging theories of biological superiority because they can’t find any other compelling explanation (like this post on HackerNews, for example). As a woman who studied computer science, worked at some of the top tech firms, and has founded a software startup, I’d like to share my take on why fewer women go into CS and my opinion on how to address the issue.

[...] I graduated from Stanford with a BS in Mathematical & Computational Sciences in 2015, interned at Apple as a software engineer, and worked as an Associate Product Manager at Google 2015-2017. In October, I founded a video editing website called Kapwing and am working on the startup full-time. Although I’m only 25, I’ve already seen many of my female friends choose majors/careers outside of STEM and have been inside of many predominately-male classes, organizations, and teams.

This article is one person’s humble perspective, and I do not speak for every woman in tech. But hopefully having the view of someone who has “been there” can help people trying to understand why there are fewer women in tech.


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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 12 2018, @03:52AM (10 children)

    by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday May 12 2018, @03:52AM (#678690) Journal

    Believe it or not, some of us are asking that. I've seen a disturbing number of people calling themselves feminists who seem to be less about bringing women up than knocking men down, and have asked several, "why?" That is, what good does it do *just* to knock people down? It's not enough to point out where men went wrong. I think we also need to show them where they could do right.

    The men I've known mostly aren't monsters. What many of them are, though, is frustrated as hell and too beaten down (almost entirely by other men and male-dominated systems, mind...) to have energy or emotional capital to spare trying to analyze why. They reject feminist thinking, or what they perceive as such, to varying degrees and at varying levels of knee-jerk, because it feels like just another attack on them. And some of them are hiding nurturing, protective, giving qualities--or have smashed them almost entirely--because society tells them as men they're not allowed to be like that. Even if they don't think of it in these terms, that is lying to themselves and amputating themselves, and it must cause terrible mental suffering. It's as if they're told the very tools and methods necessary to be themselves are unmanly to use.

    It's a vicious cycle. It really sucks. Men do this to other men, the elite to the poor, and then tell them to turn around and blame women for their ills. I think if the average man were willing and able and felt safe enough to sit down and really *think* about this stuff, they'd wake up. They'd see it. And maybe we'd have more of them deciding to grow into the humans they could be, and shine their light, and to hell with what other people think is or is not manly.

    But, I don't know what to do or how to help, aside from not playing identity politics with feminism and not losing sight of what the end goal is supposed to be :( Maybe it's going to take a couple generations more.

    --
    I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by driverless on Saturday May 12 2018, @08:51AM

    by driverless (4770) on Saturday May 12 2018, @08:51AM (#678758)

    I've seen a disturbing number of people calling themselves feminists who seem to be less about bringing women up than knocking men down, and have asked several, "why?" That is, what good does it do *just* to knock people down? It's not enough to point out where men went wrong. I think we also need to show them where they could do right.

    You've got to distinguish between first-wave and third-wave feminists (not sure where second-wave comes in, the boundaries are a bit vague). First-wave was about giving women equal rights and opportunities. By the time we got to third-wave, the situation had cleared up quite a lot - not perfect but quite a lot - and most of the original problems had been solved, or were being solved. So it was necessary to create new things to attack, and the goal became feminist class war, not creating equal rights for women, in the same way that later waves of (UK) labour unions went from gaining rights for workers to waging class war against anyone outside the working classes, and occasionally against other groups in the working classes, e.g. inter-union disputes.

    All movements are like that, initially you're trying to reform or overthrow the establishment, then you've become the establishment, and you either live with that or find new enemies to deal with. Some feminists have taken the latter path, thus third-wave feminism.

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by acid andy on Saturday May 12 2018, @10:03AM

    by acid andy (1683) on Saturday May 12 2018, @10:03AM (#678763) Homepage Journal

    But, I don't know what to do or how to help, aside from not playing identity politics with feminism and not losing sight of what the end goal is supposed to be :( Maybe it's going to take a couple generations more.

    Yeah, I think the vast majority of people don't really introspect or cross examine their own world view much as their life goes on, so new generations probably is what it will take. I think there have been noticable jumps in what are considered social norms between each generation, so things will certainly change. The only question is whether the changes will be in the right direction or not.

    --
    If a cat has kittens, does a rat have rittens, a bat bittens and a mat mittens?
  • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 12 2018, @02:21PM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 12 2018, @02:21PM (#678826)

    Wow. Hazuki doesn't hate all men. She only hates assertive men who aren't also progressive.

    • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Saturday May 12 2018, @05:10PM (6 children)

      by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Saturday May 12 2018, @05:10PM (#678877) Journal

      I can count on one hand the number of men I personally know *and* hate. Believe it or not, I hate nearly as many women, and the person I hate most is a woman, my nutso ex.

      What is it like to be so weak that even the implication that I might dislike you is this traumatizing to you? Doesn't it suck to live like that? Are you feel oppressed? (In case you need clarification, no, I don't hate you, but I'm definitely laughing at you right now).

      --
      I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
      • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday May 12 2018, @09:12PM (5 children)

        Good! Use your aggressive feelings, girl. Let the hate flow through you.

        Amusing misquotes aside, I'd let it go if you can manage. It does nobody any good and poisons your own soul.

        --
        My rights don't end where your fear begins.
        • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday May 13 2018, @03:10AM (4 children)

          by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday May 13 2018, @03:10AM (#679050) Journal

          Tone trolling is the last, and sometimes the first, refuge of the scoundrel. Projection is right up there too somewhere (hint, hint).

          --
          I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
          • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13 2018, @10:16AM (3 children)

            I'm not trolling in any manner and, aside from the Star Wars quote which I couldn't pass up, I wasn't joking either. You hold on to hatred and it will help nobody but it most certainly will destroy your life. Hatred feels like easy fuel for doing what needs done in regards to the person you're hating but using it gives the victory to them. No matter how harshly you deal with them, the venom you've decided to make part of who you are means they've caused you to do worse to yourself.

            It's the difference between beating a child because you're mad about what they did and giving them a few swats as punctuation to help the lecture you just gave them sink in. It's the difference between wanting to destroy someone who's hurt you and just doing what's necessary to keep it from happening again.

            We don't get along much. We give each other a hell of a lot of grief. I don't hate you though. Hell, I don't even dislike you. You amuse the shit out of me at times and I sincerely enjoy trading barbs with you. Even if I did dislike you though, I'd tell you the same thing. Since I don't hate anyone else, I've no cause to want them to suffer unnecessarily. Thus the advice.

            --
            My rights don't end where your fear begins.
            • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Sunday May 13 2018, @07:54PM (2 children)

              by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Sunday May 13 2018, @07:54PM (#679277) Journal

              You don't read so good, do ya boy...?

              --
              I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...
              • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 13 2018, @08:00PM (1 child)

                Sigh. You can lead a horse to water...

                --
                My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                • (Score: 2) by Azuma Hazuki on Monday May 14 2018, @04:33AM

                  by Azuma Hazuki (5086) on Monday May 14 2018, @04:33AM (#679417) Journal

                  I know, it's futile, but somehow I seem to keep trying anyway :/ Not sure why, since you've already revealed yourself to be completely unrepentant. Oh well, if water in the here and now won't do it, maybe fire in the hereafter and an unfortunate reincarnation will...

                  --
                  I am "that girl" your mother warned you about...