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posted by martyb on Friday May 18 2018, @02:09PM   Printer-friendly
from the war-crimes dept.

Democracy Now! reports
Meet Tarek Loubani, the Canadian Doctor Shot by Israeli Forces Monday While Treating Gaza's Wounded (Transcript)

As Palestinians vow to continue protesting against the Israeli occupation of Gaza, we speak to a Canadian doctor who was shot by Israeli forces in both legs Monday [May 14] while he was helping injured Palestinians. Israeli forces shot dead at least 61 unarmed Palestinian protesters taking part in the Great March of Return Monday, including one doctor. Canada, Britain, Germany, Ireland, and Belgium have called for an investigation into the killings. The United Nations Human Rights Council has announced that it will hold a special session Friday to discuss escalating violence in Gaza. We speak with Dr. Tarek Loubani, an emergency room medical doctor, one of 19 medical personnel shot in Gaza on Monday.

Audio and video links at the top of the page.

Pacifica Radio KPFK has a partial audio file, available till mid-July, ~7MB for the story. (KPFK is in fund drive mode.)
Gaza coverage begins at 13:25. The doctor's story is from 15:15 - 31:30.
He notes that the doctor who treated him was subsequently shot, resulting in his death--this, while he was wearing high-visibility clothing to denote his first-responder status.


Original Submission

 
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  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by looorg on Friday May 18 2018, @02:26PM (28 children)

    by looorg (578) on Friday May 18 2018, @02:26PM (#681169)

    If you walk out into the line of fire you are eventually bound to get shot. Shouldn't have to be a doctor to figure that one out.

    I prefer to read my propaganda straight from the IDF instead of reading the sob-stories about the poor peaceful Palestinians that was just gunned down for no reason what so ever. Somehow they are always innocent bystanders and victims and never the once that seem to want to tear things down, throw rocks and shot rockets. It's amazing how those other evil persons always seem to get away. If one looks at the images from the IDF it looks more like they are trying to stop the zombie apocalypse.

    Is there a single piece of news on this "Democracy Now!" site about how the Palestinians ever do anything wrong? I can't find any, they are the eternal victims apparently no matter how many rockets they fire or how many martyrs they create by walking in to the line of fire.

    He notes that the doctor who treated him was subsequently shot, resulting in his death--this, while he was wearing high-visibility clothing to denote his first-responder status.

    So? If wearing a high-visible outfit somehow made you immune to getting shot -- guess what all the "protestors" would be wearing.

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  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 18 2018, @03:26PM

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 18 2018, @03:26PM (#681196) Journal

    they are the eternal victims

    Democrats?

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @03:35PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @03:35PM (#681201)

    Israel: Could you guys maybe stop firing all these rockets at us? We're not at war or anything and you seem to be aiming them indiscriminately into civilian areas.

    Gaza: Fuck off.

    Israel: Okay, we've asked nicely a bunch of times but that didn't work, so now we're going to invade [wikipedia.org] and get rid of all these rocket assholes.

    Gaza: IF ONE SOLDIER STEPS IN HERE WE'LL CUT YOUR FUCKING HEADS OFF!

    Israel: [proceeds to invade and as far as people can tell pretty well avoid civilian casualties. rocket attacks finally decrease afterwards]

    Gaza: Look at what they're doing to us!!

    It's like an entire demographic dedicated to willful hypocrisy.

    • (Score: 2) by unauthorized on Friday May 18 2018, @04:11PM

      by unauthorized (3776) on Friday May 18 2018, @04:11PM (#681228)

      No, you are mistaken. They were missiles of peace, and the wanton Israeli aggression is entirely unprovoked.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @08:22PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @08:22PM (#681362)

      Sounds like 'woe is me!' propaganda of a different sort. There are no good guys in this conflict, as said above; not Israel, and not Palestine.

  • (Score: 5, Informative) by Thexalon on Friday May 18 2018, @04:24PM (5 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Friday May 18 2018, @04:24PM (#681232)

    Intentionally attacking somebody rendering medical care is a war crime under the First Geneva Conventions, of which Israel is a signatory.

    The Israelis know this full well. And demonstrably don't care. And why should they? Anytime somebody points out that their policy towards the occupied territories is in violation of the Geneva Conventions, that somebody gets drowned out with cries of "OMG! ANTI-SEMITISM!" (if the critic is Jewish, then they get called "self-hating" instead), and the US uses its Security Council veto and military threat level to prevent the UN or any other individual country from doing anything about it.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @09:10PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @09:10PM (#681397)

      True, but if you're already shooting an unarmed civilians with sniper rifles, you're so far over the line that you might as well start shooting at medical personnel and see if you can get away with it.

      The Israelis are rather impressive. They've managed to progress to the point of more or less literal Nazis in only 70 years. It took Germany much longer than that.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by tftp on Friday May 18 2018, @09:54PM (3 children)

      by tftp (806) on Friday May 18 2018, @09:54PM (#681414) Homepage
      "Intentionally attacking" - impossible to prove in a hail of bullets. Impossible to even identify a particular shooter. Not that Israel would ever permit an investigation.
      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Friday May 18 2018, @11:57PM (2 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Friday May 18 2018, @11:57PM (#681437)

        However, a lot of injuries appear at least to be of the "Boom! Headshot!" variety, not automatic rifle fire variety.

        And I agree with you that no investigation will ever happen. Just a couple of days ago, I read an article calling for the US to mediate the dispute in Gaza, without even acknowledging the widespread understanding that the current US government, like the current Israeli government, would rather like to see both Gaza and its residents no longer exist.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 19 2018, @04:06PM (1 child)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 19 2018, @04:06PM (#681591) Journal

          Head shots? People tend to shoot high, more often than low. If there are a lot of head wounds, that would lead me to speculate that the troops were not accustomed to live firing on live targets. That is, excitement and adrenaline probably caused them to revert to untrained shooting, which tends to be high.

          Even Israel probably doesn't field entire formations of snipers. If a sniper were employed here, he would have gone for high value targets. The men in the vehicles with the PA speakers, psyching the crowd up to attack, for instance. Or, may people who were more obviously in charge of things.

          But, I don't want to argue. Let's just say that Israel had an entire company of snipers, all assembled at this protest/riot, and those snipers targeted random targets, getting almost universal head shots. If you follow that line of reasoning, it's not terribly far to the intersection of "Jews are evil" and "Jews are unhuman devils".

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @10:06PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @10:06PM (#681678)

            One third of the total casualties from a small group of high-visibility medics off to the side of the main action. It is pretty obvious they were targeted.
            That many medical aid workers shot mostly in the legs seems like a clear warning from Israel not to provide any support to the Palestinians.
            They are not stupid, they know what 19 headshots would have provoked. Note that none of the medics were shot with the 'butterfly' bullets they are using on protesters.

  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @05:05PM (17 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @05:05PM (#681264)

    "If you walk out into the line of fire you are eventually bound to get shot."
    But he wasn't "in the line of fire."

    We were away from the protest area, about 25 meters west, 25 meters south of the protesters. It was calm. Everybody was sort of loitering. There were no tires on fire. There was no chaos. It was a very controlled scene. We knew where we were. We could see the sniper posts. For sure, they could see us. And I was just sort of talking to the medical team. We were testing out some medical devices that we’ve been trying to make in Gaza because of a shortage. And we had resupplied, because we ran out. It was very early in the day, and yet we had run out of our entire supply, so we resupplied. That’s when, unfortunately, I heard a loud bang, found myself on the ground and realized I had been shot.

    I'd guess they were *doing* things, and overamped and overjumpy Israeli soldiers by reflex shot them.
    Another paramedic who was there, whom the shot doctor suggested knew one doesn't just go out into the line of fire, was killed.

    AMY GOODMAN: He couldn’t receive the treatment he wanted because there was so much fire by the Israeli military forces in this area where the paramedics were that he could not be attended to by anyone else? They couldn’t get around him?

    DR. TAREK LOUBANI: They couldn’t get to him, no. There was so much fire there. And anybody who sort of like peeked out was shot. So, even though the rule for us is we just don’t put ourselves in a situation where we get shot, we’re incredibly careful. We’re incredibly careful. He was wearing a high-visibility orange jacket, that had been submitted by the International Committee of the Red Cross to the Israeli army as a paramedic service. I was wearing greens, hospital greens. We were all marked in high visibility. And yet, unfortunately, he was shot. And his colleagues, who were all highly marked, were being targeted anytime that they showed themselves. So everybody was to the ground until things calmed down, which took about half an hour.

    As to yours... "So? If wearing a high-visible outfit somehow made you immune to getting shot -- guess what all the "protestors" would be wearing." [Citation needed, absolutely.] How many other protesters there, that day, were wearing the clothing designated for EMS workers? I won't say that EMS can't be imitated but until it happens as you described it you're just speculating.

    So, do you have any proof that this was anything but armed soldiers shooting down aid workers? I didn't think so. The U.N. appears like they may have questions for them as well. [independent.co.uk]

    The injury of aid workers deserves at minimum an apology if not outright international condemnation.

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Friday May 18 2018, @05:12PM (16 children)

      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Friday May 18 2018, @05:12PM (#681272) Journal

      Protest. Yelling, screaming, and general carrying on like nuts. Eventually, bullets fly. And - 25 yards? WTF does that even mean? Outside of what area, exactly? I can throw a damned rock 25 yards. I can shout legibly 25 yards. I've know people who could pollute the air 25 yards away with a single fart. I can hear a moderately well muffled car running 25 yards away.

      At 25 meters, or 25 yards, YOU ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY PART OF THE PROTEST!!

      Agitprop is agitprop.

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Friday May 18 2018, @08:33PM

        by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us (6553) on Friday May 18 2018, @08:33PM (#681370) Journal

        It means they felt they were separated from the main body of protesters as an organized group in clothing in which they should have been recognized as EMS/medical workers per pre-established protocols. I wonder if 25 meters was accurate, myself, but any soldier in the world should be able to recognize a non-combatant 80 feet away from the edge of the "action" and be able to not hit it. If the soldiers are to the north that actually means the medics were probably on the order of 150 feet away from the Israeli line, minimum... well outside of rock-or-Molotov-chucking range. By the physician's description (BTW it was 19 medical workers killed/injured, and the summary implies wrongly they are all physicians.)

        Generally, all the bullets that fly are on Israel's side. Not always, but usually. They usually get rocks - which I'll readily acknowledge can be injuring if you're not prepared for them.

        And yes, it is a tense environment. Extremely. And they are soldiers, not civilians, and therefore are held to a higher standard. You're making excuses for them.

        --
        This sig for rent.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @08:38PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @08:38PM (#681374)

        You sound like a fascist police state loving douche.

      • (Score: 0, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @08:50PM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18 2018, @08:50PM (#681383)

        ...on the far side of a giant fence. [archive.li]

        Gaza is a big prison camp for Palestinians.
        The riflemen had to shoot THROUGH THE FENCE at the people penned inside.

        Gawd, you are fucking stupid.
        If there was any justice in the world, assholes like you would be getting shot routinely.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 19 2018, @01:07AM (8 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 19 2018, @01:07AM (#681454) Journal

          No, stupid is going up against guns with rocks. Darwin. Life is both the most precious thing in the world, and the cheapest.

          War, children, is just a shot away. And, if you don't understand that, you may well earn a Darwin award.

          Funny, how civilians want to hold soldiers to some "higher standard". Yet, civilians are stupid enough to challenge soldiers.

          • (Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @01:47AM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @01:47AM (#681479)

            So weird how this article has you righties out in force calling for blood and justifying war crimes. It just doesn't make sense, did you lose your morality somewhere? Is your hatred for all things Muslim really that big?

            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 19 2018, @02:02AM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 19 2018, @02:02AM (#681488) Journal

              Righties? Ask most of our European friends. I'm pretty far left of Hillary Clinton. I've never attempted to justify the invasion of Iraq, nor have I ever advocated an invasion of Syria.

              "justifying war crimes" you say? How about you download the Geneva Conventions, study them, and figure out just what constitutes a war crime? Many people who have never studied war, or the laws of war, are happy to jump up and down, while proclaiming a war crime. Other people who have never studied electricity are equally happy to proclaim a conductor "safe" or "unsafe", without ever checking to see whether the conductor is energized, locked out, disconnected, connected, or anything at all.

          • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:18AM (5 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:18AM (#681507)

            stupid is going up against guns with rocks

            Glad to know you've never been in really dire straits where the water you're allowed to have is contaminated, food is extremely limited, medicine and medical supplies like wheelchairs can't be brought in, building supplies are embargoed (after your oppressors have knocked down your homes with bulldozers), and where your every movement is controlled by a heavily-armed aggressor force.

            Glad to know you've never been in a completely powerless position.

            .
            Otter: We gotta take these bastards. Now, we could fight 'em with conventional weapons. That could take years and cost millions of lives. Oh, no. No, in this case, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
            Bluto: And we're just the guys to do it. [google.com]

            -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:22PM (4 children)

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:22PM (#681585) Journal

              Right. Tell me more about those building supplies that the Pals don't get in the Gaza strip. In point of fact, there ARE building supplies brought in, in limited quantities. Do you have any idea what those building supplies are used for? https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-other-reason-palestinians-build-tunnels-in-gaza [thedailybeast.com] Matt Surrusco is something of a Palestinian apologist, and offers humanitarian reasons for the tunnels, but the fact is, the tunnels have primary military uses. Instead of building homes for Palestinians, the concrete and other supplies go to building the means with which to attack Israel.

              Someone earlier in this discussion made the claim that the Palestinians aren't soldiers. Whether that be so, or not, most of those on the Gaza strip want to kill Jews.

              Kept in a prison? How many opportunities does the average Gaza Strip resident have to just get up and leave? The gates into Egypt are opened pretty regularly. You would think that a Gaza Muslim would be welcome to use Egypt as a home, or as a base from which to find a home.

              Tell me more about how badly the Israelis treat Gaza residents. Odd, though. Their brother Muslims won't allow them to relocate into Muslim lands, either. Meanwhile - those Palestinians outside of the Gaza Strip simply don't have it all that bad.

              Gaza. Maybe their own conduct, maybe their own attitudes, have a lot to do with their conditions. Have you never wondered what they MIGHT accomplish, if they stopped building tunnels, stopped building rockets, stopped importing rockets, stopped all investment into military materials, and invested in their current homes?

              But, go right ahead, and cry me a river. And, I'll play you a song on the world's smallest violin while you cry. https://memegenerator.net/Worlds-Smallest-Violin [memegenerator.net]

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @10:46PM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19 2018, @10:46PM (#681694)

                Israeli propaganda.
                I hear bigger bangs from the nightly fireworks at Disneyland.
                Apparently, you're impressed by firecrackers.
                (They're used for effect; their actual impact is roughly zero.)

                ...or maybe you have photo(s) of something "destroyed" by one of these "weapons".

                Meanwhile, when we go back to the start, there is the (continued) use of Israeli weapons sent into the midst of their prisoners, who are already penned in and embargoed from basic living necessities.
                ...and, of course, there's the bulldozers used against them.
                N.B. Mentioned elsewhere in the (meta)thread is the USAian national who was crushed to death by one of those.

                Your racist bigotry is showing once again.
                Your willingness to accept the Fox so-called News "reporting" of the story--the version from the side for whom you are prejudiced--is obvious.
                Truth be damned.

                -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

                • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 20 2018, @01:45AM (2 children)

                  by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 20 2018, @01:45AM (#681735) Journal

                  World Socialist News propaganda.

                  And, you are dismissed.

                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 20 2018, @02:06AM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 20 2018, @02:06AM (#681740)

                    You have no actual proof to offer.
                    Yeah. I was pretty sure of that.

                    Clearly, you're going to stick with your usual mostly-wrong "news" sources. [sott.net]

                    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

                    • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Sunday May 20 2018, @05:57AM

                      by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Sunday May 20 2018, @05:57AM (#681796) Journal

                      Pot, meet kettle. You should read back through this entire submission, and the resulting discussions. There is a sub-thread, "propaganda vs propaganda" or something like that. You have chosen to buy into one side of the propaganda war, and others have bought into the other side. Only a few of the participants in this discussion have stated that they don't believe any of the propaganda. Or, maybe they believe some, but not all.

                      You are well known for promoting the socialist side of propaganda. You take any and every side that is in opposition to the US, whether it be Chinese, Russian, Palestinian, or Martian. If any entity opposes the US and capitalism, you cheer for that side.

                      My positions are often pro-American, but they don't go so far as the "My country, right or wrong" crowd.

                      Life experience has taught me that NO_FUCKING_BODY is right all the time. It has also taught me that NO_FUCKING_BODY is wrong all the time.

                      Which, of the two of us, is more likely to discern the truth, in any given situation?

                      TL:DR version? Go piss up a rope, you communist shill.

                      One last time: There are no "good guys" in the conflict.

      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday May 19 2018, @12:10AM (3 children)

        by Thexalon (636) on Saturday May 19 2018, @12:10AM (#681441)

        Protest. Yelling, screaming, and general carrying on like nuts. Eventually, bullets fly.

        Why do bullets fly? How is yelling and screaming a threat to heavily armed military units? All these soldiers have to do for this to not be a problem is stand there calmly. If they're throwing rocks, put up riot shields and such to protect themselves. Doing this would have not only kept people alive, but also would have probably kept the entire thing off the news.

        And I say this as someone who's had people yelling and screaming at me, at close range, and while I was ready for a fight I just sat there and waited for them to finish.

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
        • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 19 2018, @01:08AM (2 children)

          by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 19 2018, @01:08AM (#681455) Journal

          They were throwing rocks? They were advancing on the fence? The yelling and screaming were part of that? Bullets will fly.

          • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:12PM (1 child)

            by Thexalon (636) on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:12PM (#681583)

            I already explained how they could deal with rocks, to make them not a threat.

            Advancing on the fence is also not a threat. Also, the people they were shooting were either far from the fence, or close enough that they could be clearly identified as medical personnel.

            My guess is that your real opinion on the matter is that you would gladly support any action taken by Israel, including, if they so chose, wiping out everybody currently living in Gaza.

            --
            The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
            • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:31PM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Saturday May 19 2018, @03:31PM (#681587) Journal

              Uhhhhhhh, one of us has probably been in situations such as the Israelis found themselves in. And, one of us has never been in a similar situation. One of us has been part of dispersing a riot, with only mild to moderate injuries suffered by any of the rioters. The other of us, has probably not been part of such a thing.

              I can say, with certainty, that if I were standing in ranks with a dozen, or two dozen, or even an entire company of fellow Americans - if the rioters advanced, and if the rioters demonstrated an ability and a willingness to breach the fence, I would open fire on the rioters when ordered to do so. No questions asked.

              And, I can tell you with equal certainty, not one son of a bitch among the rioters would be safe. Not one. Officer's insignia, medical insignia, clergy, male, female, none would be safe. And, the 25 meters mentioned in the story would mean absolutely nothing. I would fire until ordered to cease fire, or I ran out of ammunition, or the last body flopped in the sand.

              Need I be any more clear?

              If you challenge an armed man, or an armed force, you can expect to die.

              The Palestinians rallied to assault the border, and the Israelis quashed that assault. It's as simple as that.