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posted by janrinok on Saturday May 26 2018, @10:38AM   Printer-friendly
from the free-speech dept.

Al Jazeera reports

The National Football League (NFL) announced a new policy that will fine teams an undetermined amount if players on the field fail to stand during the national anthem.

[...] The new policy does not require players be present during the anthem, allowing those who wish to protest and not attend the ceremonial act to remain in the locker room.

Players said they were not consulted and threatened to challenge the policy in the courts. A statement by the NFL Players Association said its athletes had shown ample patriotism by way of their social activism and community support initiatives.

[...] New York Jets chairman Christopher Johnson said he supported the measure out of obligation to the membership, but said players can take a knee or perform another type of protest without fear of repercussion from the team. He will pay their fines.

"If somebody [on the Jets] takes a knee, that fine will be borne by the organisation, by me, not the players. I never want to put restrictions on the speech of our players," Johnson said.

New York Magazine notes

The monetary risk to Johnson isn't huge, since no Jets players took a knee last season. [...] Johnson is currently acting as owner of the team while his brother, Woody Johnson, serves as Trump's ambassador to Britain.


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  • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday May 26 2018, @12:21PM (26 children)

    It'd have the side effect of pissing pretty much nobody off as well.

    --
    My rights don't end where your fear begins.
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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by pe1rxq on Saturday May 26 2018, @01:55PM (25 children)

    by pe1rxq (844) on Saturday May 26 2018, @01:55PM (#684514) Homepage

    It shouldn't, but it probably will.
    The difference between paying respect while on a knee or standing is pretty arbitrary as well.

    I am from a country were 'patriotism' is not brainwashed in at an early age, and to me the obsession Americans have for their flag and anthem just looks silly. It is all subjective.

    • (Score: 3, Disagree) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday May 26 2018, @02:14PM (24 children)

      Well, yeah, some people just enjoy bitching. The official standard is to stand, remove your hat if applicable, and put your right hand over your heart unless you're military. They cover those bases and anyone bitching can go piss up a flagpole as far as most of the nation will be concerned.

      As for brainwashed, well a lot of blood, sweat, and tears has gone into creating the best nation we can manage. I personally think we've done better than anyone else, though there's still plenty of room for improvement. Those efforts and sacrifices deserve respect.

      --
      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:39PM (14 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @03:39PM (#684553)

        Nah the brainwashing patriotism is a more recent phenomenon and it is harmfully stupid. It speaks to how far we have sunk as a country that a football player taking a knee for a good cause is a massive scandal drawing calls for blood.

        • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Ethanol-fueled on Saturday May 26 2018, @04:54PM

          by Ethanol-fueled (2792) on Saturday May 26 2018, @04:54PM (#684580) Homepage

          Colin Kapernick sucked and knew his time was about to be up, so his kneeling thing was a hail-Mary. He unwittingly created a monster and had to double-down on the movement he started.

          Where is he now? Offering to suck dick for another shot at playing ball. He's basically another Michael Sam at this point, a player begging to be hired for his gimmick rather than his skill.

        • (Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday May 26 2018, @07:17PM (12 children)

          Dude, if you can't understand how what appears to be disrespecting symbols of your nation could be taken in a negative light by some people, you're not bright enough to have anything useful to say.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @10:58PM (11 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @10:58PM (#684686)

            Funny how you bitch about authoritarian snowflake college kids with blue hair but now appear to be defending a different kind of snowflake. The reality is that this 'protest' should have amounted to nothing because they didn't really do anything. Kneeling during the anthem does nothing and harms no one; it's all purely symbolic nonsense which offends only snowflakes of the highest caliber. The people offended are fake patriots who believe that it is sufficient to mindlessly worship symbols to be patriotic, when in reality they are merely jingoists. The real patriots are people like Edward Snowden who actually try to improve their country.

            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:27PM (1 child)

              by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:27PM (#684692)

              And once again you miss the point. NFL is a business. NFL players are employees. When the employee begins affecting the business by his antics while on the clock, you cannot be surprised when the employer decides it's time to ask that employee to follow acceptable policies of the business which attract its customers. See Starbucks if you have questions. Same shit, different core customer base.

              • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:46PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @11:46PM (#684696)

                And once again you miss the point.

                No, you miss the point. What you said is merely a straw man, since no one is saying they don't have the legal right to do this. The point is that people constantly talk about the principle of freedom of speech, which is much more broad than the legal implementation of it, but then stop caring about it when someone whose speech they don't like is being censored/shut down for their speech. I support the principle of freedom of speech and am opposed to censorship whether it affects people on the left or people on the right.

                The other point is that people like TMB constantly complain about snowflake SJWs on the left and then ignore the snowflakes on the right, such as the fake patriots offended by people kneeling during the anthem. He pretends that the latter being oversensitive has merit whereas the former does not. In reality, both groups are composed of oversensitive authoritarian cretins who have no principles to speak of.

                But continue with your straw men, by all means.

            • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 27 2018, @12:05AM (8 children)

              Take your strawman and go back to HuffPo. I'm not defending shit. I'm saying if you can't comprehend how something could offend quite a lot of people, you're a fucking idiot. I mean, that's the entire fucking point of doing it during the anthem, to show disrespect and piss people off. It was never an earnest attempt at resolving any issue.

              --
              My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:55AM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:55AM (#684723)

                Oh it is easily understandable. Big giant babies being big giant babies. The anthem deserves disrespect when the country had such severe systemic issues, and it becomes very hard to not apply "racist dirtbags" to the whole lot of offended babies. I wonder how few of your comrades really understand their own prejudices and basic personality makeup.

              • (Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @03:03AM (3 children)

                by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @03:03AM (#684736)

                Take your strawman and go back to HuffPo.

                I don't like HuffPo. I'm a libertarian and very anti-authoritarian in nature. I hate jingoism and this fake bullshit patriotism where people worship symbols and either actively harm their country (by supporting things such as mass surveillance or the unjust wars overseas) or remain apathetic as authoritarians destroy our liberty.

                I'm saying if you can't comprehend how something could offend quite a lot of people, you're a fucking idiot.

                Strange that you don't say these things when it comes to the SJWs. If this were SJWs getting offended, you'd be talking about how whiny they are or something like that; you certainly would not be calling anyone criticizing the SJWs a fucking idiot for apparently not comprehending why people are offended by whatever was said.

                The reality is that anyone could be offended by anything, and this observation is not special or even worth mentioning.

                I mean, that's the entire fucking point of doing it during the anthem, to show disrespect and piss people off.

                And even assuming that is the case, it shouldn't work. It works because people are oversensitive snowflakes.

                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Sunday May 27 2018, @05:09PM (2 children)

                  There aren't enough SJWs to matter and they're so astoundingly destructive and violent that they should never be appeased. There are a fuckload of perfectly ordinary, boring people who are partial to the flag and anthem though.

                  It works because people are oversensitive snowflakes.

                  I agree, to a point. They are overly sensitive but their sensitivity, unlike the sensitivity of SJWs, is utterly harmless unless intentionally provoked. They don't go around looking for people to be offended at, they just get offended easily when someone tries to offend them.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
                  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @07:37PM (1 child)

                    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @07:37PM (#684898)

                    I agree, to a point. They are overly sensitive but their sensitivity, unlike the sensitivity of SJWs, is utterly harmless unless intentionally provoked.

                    Jingoism and symbol worship are not utterly harmless. They encourage apathy and even support towards violations of our liberty. Not to mention, as seen here, they threaten the principle of freedom of speech, which many people get upset about when SJWs try to get people shut down.

                    they just get offended easily when someone tries to offend them.

                    Then the problem is still with them.

                    • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday May 28 2018, @04:18AM

                      I think you need to take a step back and realize that most people who are angry over this nonsense are not engaging in anything remotely approaching jingoism or symbol worship. They're just people who don't think America is wrong in everything it has ever done. At worst it's simple tribalism, which is a quality inherent to every last member of the human race.

                      Then the problem is still with them.

                      No, it is not. There is no problem. One group set out to piss all over something they knew damned good and well another much larger group does not like seeing disrespected. They trolled successfully; nothing more, nothing less.

                      --
                      My rights don't end where your fear begins.
              • (Score: 2) by edIII on Tuesday May 29 2018, @06:55PM (1 child)

                by edIII (791) on Tuesday May 29 2018, @06:55PM (#685798)

                I agree with you on comprehending how some people can be offended. I'm offended due to my patriotism as well. The anthem and flag I consider sacrosanct, and representative of ideals that we've fallen pretty far from. Nonetheless, our founding principles of Freedom are, and have, been worth dying for. The patriots that gave their lives with such passion will always have my deepest respect. I'm one of the few in my family that was never in the military, and that's because I don't qualify medically. Otherwise, I would be a former Marine (is that the way to say it?).

                That's why I will always salute the flag and give respect to the anthem; It's not me that has betrayed the principles of a real American, and the principles themselves are still noble and righteous, so it's the fucking politicians, the avaricious billionaires, the c-suites that have truly betrayed the American principles of Freedom I hold so dear. It's like that scene from Office Space where Michael refuses to change his name just because people confuse him with Michael Bolton :) I AM AN AMERICAN, and I'm proud of the principles my country stands for. I feel like utter shit because of what has become of us, which is truly deplorable. We're not living up to the hype.

                That being said, I wholly disagree with you on the motives of the players. I don't believe it is to show disrespect and piss people off. Yes, it was most certainly an earnest attempt at resolving issues by bringing the conversation forward. If you consider it a protest, it was a protest against police brutality and how our militarized police are not providing the service we've asked of them. Protesting, peacefully, is a very American thing to do with a long history going back *before* the founding fathers were discussing revolution. To protest peacefully, in the ways promulgated by Dr. Martin Luther King and Gandhi, is something worthy of respect in of itself. I think you would be well served to put your feelings of offense on the back burner, and consider what these players are bringing up.

                Personally, I would tell the players to honor the anthem and respect the flag, then double down on their protest movements elsewhere. With the money they have, you can certainly create a grass roots organization quickly. Something better and more sane than the BLM preferably.

                --
                Technically, lunchtime is at any moment. It's just a wave function.
                • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Wednesday May 30 2018, @12:54PM

                  I'm offended due to my patriotism as well.

                  The thing is, I'm not offended due to patriotism. I'm annoyed that one guy trolled a good chunk of the nation and an entire political party refuses to even admit that him being seen as an asshole by perfectly decent people is even possible.

                  --
                  My rights don't end where your fear begins.
      • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Saturday May 26 2018, @07:37PM (8 children)

        by ilPapa (2366) on Saturday May 26 2018, @07:37PM (#684641) Journal

        The official standard is to stand, remove your hat if applicable, and put your right hand over your heart unless you're military.

        Here is the gold standard of how patriotism is done.

        https://youtu.be/uyrfbQ6Tkdw [youtu.be]

        --
        You are still welcome on my lawn.
        • (Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Saturday May 26 2018, @10:26PM (3 children)

          Dude, Trump has nothing to do with this and everyone already knows he's a clown; it's not a very good retort.

          --
          My rights don't end where your fear begins.
          • (Score: 2) by ilPapa on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:07AM (1 child)

            by ilPapa (2366) on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:07AM (#684712) Journal

            Why do you hate freedom? You libs are all alike.

            --
            You are still welcome on my lawn.
          • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:30AM

            by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:30AM (#684721) Homepage Journal

            People don't know this, I have many many followers on Social Media. Over 100 million. And I went on Twitter and said, if NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. #BoycottNFL [twitter.com] #BoycottTheNFL [twitter.com] #NFLBoycott [twitter.com] And I said, why not take in some baseball? ⚾️ We have the incredible #WorldSeries [twitter.com]. Which in 2016, unfortunately that one was rigged by the Crooked Chicago .@Cubs [twitter.com]. Just like our elections were rigged by Crooked Dem politicians.

            People are laughing at me. They're calling me a clown, that's a very foolish thing to say. Because I have a guy on the Supreme Court. Many judges. I have guys in Congress. And I have the great, great American people backing me on this one. And the NFL tried to ignore us, they couldn't ignore us. They lost. They caved completely. And America won. Tremendous victory for our Flag, Anthem & Country. Because of me. And there will be many more, trust me!! 🇺🇸

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @10:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 26 2018, @10:38PM (#684684)

          https://i.ytimg.com/vi/uyrfbQ6Tkdw/maxresdefault.jpg [ytimg.com]

          ...and people who wear USAian flag pins[1] just make want to barf.
          It's the symbol of White Imperalism and oppression from coast to coast here and colonialism and murder worldwide.

          [1] ...unless those are are obviously purposely turned upside-down.
          ...and if you're going to wear one, I'd rather see one like this. [shutterstock.com]

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:08AM (2 children)

          by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Sunday May 27 2018, @01:08AM (#684713) Homepage Journal

          I'm not a singer, I'm an actor. A businessman. And a politician. So when I sing the anthem, maybe, probably, it's not 100% PERFECTO. But let me tell you, it's not an easy song. And when singers do it, a lot of times it's not 100%. Many people are saying, let's change to an easier song. But one that has all the greatness of our Country. Like Don't Stop Believin' by Journey.

          Important thing is, I show the RESPECT. For our Flag & Anthem. 100%. Because so many of our brave soldiers died for those. And so many didn't die but they got horrible wounds. A guy steps on a mine, on a landmine, it blows off his whatever. The part that makes him a man, you know? Or a guy is around a lot of explosions, he looks OK, he looks fantastic. Fantastic body. But mentally, big problems. He lost his mind, they call it PTSD. Very similar to what happens to our football players. But the players aren't respecting the Anthem. And they aren't respecting our Country.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @05:53PM (1 child)

            by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 27 2018, @05:53PM (#684861)

            Nothing more pathetic than a five time draft dodger wrapping himself in the flag.