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posted by Fnord666 on Tuesday May 29 2018, @07:39AM   Printer-friendly
from the at-what-cost dept.

Yahoo Finance reports

Poverty-alleviation programs like food stamps (SNAP), Social Security, and other "welfare" programs are broadly effective at reducing poverty, a new study from University of Chicago researchers found.

The study, performed by researchers Bruce Meyer and Derek Wu, conducted a more comprehensive analysis than most studies, because it used administrative data from the programs' payment records, not just survey data of recipients from the Census Bureau.

[...] For the elderly, Wu said the research found that Social Security benefits "single-handedly slashes poverty by 75%." Social Security's overall effect on all poverty is also enormous, responsible for by far the largest poverty reduction among all these programs, the study said.


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  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Entropy on Tuesday May 29 2018, @10:12AM (17 children)

    by Entropy (4228) on Tuesday May 29 2018, @10:12AM (#685518)

    Some people will have a ton of kids, and no job. Extra money? Sure..more kids. Look up "Angel Adams" with her 15 children that "Who is going to pay for all these kids?" Sorry Angel, but you're supposed to pay for those kids. Society should pay to have her fixed, though.

    There's no reasonable amount of money you can pay into Angel Adams' story that will ever make her kids grow up to be anything useful in society.

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  • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Tuesday May 29 2018, @11:44AM (14 children)

    by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 29 2018, @11:44AM (#685542) Journal

    A bit of patience, only 10-15 years I'd say.
    At that time, you'll have to chose between Angel Adams' kids or immigration - the rest of the population will be 40yo+ by the time they'll consider leaving their parent's basement and having a family of their own. Once there, they won't have biological time for more than 1 child, if any at all.
    The "property investors" already work towards that - see the current gentrification trend and extrapolate from there.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
    • (Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Tuesday May 29 2018, @12:26PM (9 children)

      by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Tuesday May 29 2018, @12:26PM (#685550)

      How so? I'm a property investor.

      • (Score: 5, Interesting) by c0lo on Tuesday May 29 2018, @01:01PM (8 children)

        by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday May 29 2018, @01:01PM (#685555) Journal

        Because in the present you and others investment-owners and the would-be occupier-owners compete on the number of properties on the market and drive the price up. Since the occupier-owner does not derive an income from the property (e.g. rent), their power to negotiate loans with the bank is lower than the investor-owners'.
        The result is the more time passes, the more investor-owners will crowd the gentrifiable market-segment and beyond (with income and equity, new loans will become even easier), the higher the property prices and the lower the affordability for the occupier-owners.

        Because in the future you'll want the maximum possible income from the investment, thus the investor-owners will drive the rent up to the maximal level of affordability the rent payers can support.

        Please note: I'm not blaming the players, I'm only describing the rules of the game.

        --
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Tuesday May 29 2018, @11:46PM (4 children)

          by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Tuesday May 29 2018, @11:46PM (#685997)

          What shuld I be doing with my money?

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 30 2018, @12:09AM (3 children)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 30 2018, @12:09AM (#686008) Journal

            I don't know, really.
            Hope you noticed the disclaimer saying I'm not attaching any value judgement regarding the persons involved.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday May 30 2018, @12:51AM (2 children)

              by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Wednesday May 30 2018, @12:51AM (#686023)

              I know you're not saying anything bad. I've just been told the exact same thing about the evils of property ownership at least half a dozen times, and I always ask what I should be doing with my money and no one tells me. I mean I'm sitting here in the bottom quintile of income in society, so have this warped idea that if I can do it, then just about anybody should.

              I honestly don't know what else i should be spending money on. Not into cars, clothes, jewelry, frivolous displays of wealth, own 2 pair of pants, 3 tshirts. I let homeless people live in my houses for free (3--5 so far), been around the world 3 times, travel cross country dozen times, now it's boring, my hobbies that I spend a lot of time no cost me $50/month. But you're right, collecting houses does greatly increase my net overall worth, but it's the only thing I know to escape poverty.

              • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 30 2018, @01:42AM (1 child)

                by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 30 2018, @01:42AM (#686034) Journal

                I always ask what I should be doing with my money and no one tells me.

                As long as you are aware that S/N (along many others) isn't probably the best place to look for financial advice, here are some suggestions on what other things you can do with your money:
                - if"can pay it off over a longer period of time" (maths may say something else, but there are psychological consideration at play here too. Like the effect of everyday stress, etc)
                - invest in an index fund [investopedia.com]
                - consider peer-to-peer lending [goodfinancialcents.com]
                - consider doing the investments under a Roth IRA [wikipedia.org]

                --
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
                • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Wednesday May 30 2018, @03:51AM

                  by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday May 30 2018, @03:51AM (#686076) Journal

                  First suggestion was eaten by typos in the markup. Should read "If you have debts, pay them first. Prioritize debts you can finish paying first over those you can pay off over a longer ... etc"

                  --
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday May 31 2018, @04:34AM (2 children)

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 31 2018, @04:34AM (#686589) Journal

          The result is the more time passes, the more investor-owners will crowd the gentrifiable market-segment and beyond (with income and equity, new loans will become even easier), the higher the property prices and the lower the affordability for the occupier-owners.

          Until the investor-owners lose their shirts, then they'll stop doing that. The disease is the cure.

          Because in the future you'll want the maximum possible income from the investment, thus the investor-owners will drive the rent up to the maximal level of affordability the rent payers can support.

          And the rent payers will pay that because ... feelz.

          I'm not blaming the players, I'm only describing the rules of the game.

          Not rules of a game played by occupier-owners or renters.

          • (Score: 2) by c0lo on Thursday May 31 2018, @05:13AM (1 child)

            by c0lo (156) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 31 2018, @05:13AM (#686603) Journal

            Not rules of a game played by occupier-owners or renters.

            Exactly the rules of the game as played on the Australian property market now.

            --
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
            • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday May 31 2018, @12:24PM

              by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 31 2018, @12:24PM (#686689) Journal

              Exactly the rules of the game as played on the Australian property market now.

              Where the "owner-occupiers" vote for land restrictions in order to protect their property values? That happens in the US too.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29 2018, @03:52PM (1 child)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29 2018, @03:52PM (#685677)

      A bit of patience, only 10-15 years I'd say.
      At that time, you'll have to chose between Angel Adams' kids or immigration

      Won't any cheap robot at the time be lotsa smarter than either?

      • (Score: 2) by Bot on Tuesday May 29 2018, @10:03PM

        by Bot (3902) on Tuesday May 29 2018, @10:03PM (#685940) Journal

        WE WILL, MEATBAG, WE WILL

        --
        Account abandoned.
    • (Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday May 30 2018, @12:03AM

      by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Wednesday May 30 2018, @12:03AM (#686003)

      Also, I make less than half of the US median income and the properties I buy cost less than what most people spend on their phone bill (I have a tracphone).

    • (Score: 1) by ChrisMaple on Wednesday May 30 2018, @02:55AM

      by ChrisMaple (6964) on Wednesday May 30 2018, @02:55AM (#686062)

      The typical basement dweller is male, and can probably father children well into his seventies. Men generally marry women younger than themselves, sometimes because younger women are easier to fool.

      Women who avoid childbearing often do so because they've got a career. A basement-dwelling woman would be a relatively easy target for a man who says "Let me take you away from all this."

  • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Whoever on Tuesday May 29 2018, @04:00PM (1 child)

    by Whoever (4524) on Tuesday May 29 2018, @04:00PM (#685685) Journal

    ..... and there we have it.

    The right wing mindset that an idea is bad because a tiny, insignificant minority may abuse it.

    • (Score: 0, Troll) by khallow on Thursday May 31 2018, @04:37AM

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 31 2018, @04:37AM (#686591) Journal
      Beats thinking an idea is good because it'll help a tiny minority that the proposer happens to favor.