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posted by Fnord666 on Tuesday May 29 2018, @07:39AM   Printer-friendly
from the at-what-cost dept.

Yahoo Finance reports

Poverty-alleviation programs like food stamps (SNAP), Social Security, and other "welfare" programs are broadly effective at reducing poverty, a new study from University of Chicago researchers found.

The study, performed by researchers Bruce Meyer and Derek Wu, conducted a more comprehensive analysis than most studies, because it used administrative data from the programs' payment records, not just survey data of recipients from the Census Bureau.

[...] For the elderly, Wu said the research found that Social Security benefits "single-handedly slashes poverty by 75%." Social Security's overall effect on all poverty is also enormous, responsible for by far the largest poverty reduction among all these programs, the study said.


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  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29 2018, @06:08PM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29 2018, @06:08PM (#685767)

    revolution? lmao! these motherfuckers can't even grow vegetables. they have to be fed like pets. i'm real scared.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29 2018, @11:11PM (3 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 29 2018, @11:11PM (#685986)

    OK, now, everybody point to the pampered suburbanite who has always had a big plot of land where he could plant whatever he wanted (and probably--stupidly--plants grass).
    ...with a running water supply to keep that stuff alive.

    Your White Privilege and inherited affluence are in evidence in abundance.

    Where do you propose that these folks plant those vegetables?

    When they do find unused land, [google.com] the goddamned Capitalist (not even a very good Capitalist) comes along as the crops are well along, but not quite ready for harvest, and declares those folks to be trespassers and destroys what they have done (with the growers having e.g. carried water by hand in buckets to the site, no less).

    ...after which, the Capitalist continues to do nothing with the land except let it sit idle.

    ...meanwhile, in Venezuela, their communes are putting idle farmland and factories back into production--and you'd best not fuck with -those- folks.

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday May 31 2018, @12:20PM (2 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday May 31 2018, @12:20PM (#686688) Journal

      When they do find unused land

      An example [latimes.com] of this from your google list, the city of LA seized land via eminent domain from a Ralph Horowitz for a trash-burning plant which never got built due to community opposition. Only then was it "unused" and converted to community gardens. Eventually, the city sold the land to the "Harbor Department" (I believe the Port of Los Angeles [wikipedia.org] which is an independent department in the city) in violation of the contract they had created at the time of the seizure of the land from Horowitz. As part of the settlement, the land was eventually sold back to Horowitz.

      So here "the Capitalist" is a man who had land stolen from him under false pretenses and for which the land was unused precisely because it had been taken by an incompetent government unable to find a use for the land.

      ...after which, the Capitalist continues to do nothing with the land except let it sit idle.

      And now let's hear [wikipedia.org] the rest of the story. The Wikipedia article describes at least three years of further obstruction (including protests that occupied the land in question and required eviction by police) from the community farm people to any other use of the land (and targeted by hostile high profile propaganda [wikipedia.org] well into 2008). So whose fault is it that it remains unused? Who is willing to deal with the propaganda landmines that have been laid there?

      ...meanwhile, in Venezuela, their communes are putting idle farmland and factories back into production--and you'd best not fuck with -those- folks.

      Even if I wanted to fuck with Venezuelans, why would I need to lift a finger? They're doing a fine job of fucking with themselves beyond anything I could do to them (the "idle" farmland and factories were that way due to the people taking that stuff over). Turns out there's no honor (or economic competence and social cohesion) among thieves. Who knew?

      Let us recall for the audience the state of Venezuela. It is a disaster that continues to grow with inflation rate that climbed [tradingeconomics.com] to 13,000% year to year this April, outflow [washingtonpost.com] of more than 1% of its population per year in the past two years (higher than that now), and unable [reuters.com] to even properly feed its people.

      Yet OriginalOwner with his peculiar Marxist glasses boasts of the farmland and factories that are being put to use. They would already be in use, if it weren't for the poisonous ideology of "Bolivarianism" that made those idle in the first place.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 31 2018, @10:37PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 31 2018, @10:37PM (#686965)

        eminent domain

        You really do enjoy demonstrating what an ignorant fool you are.
        Under eminent domain, fair market value is paid for what is taken[1] for public use.

        [1] The correct term then, would be "bought".
        Jeez. You Laissez-faire types would bitch if somebody hung you with a brand new rope.

        Venezuelans [are] doing a fine job of fucking with themselves

        I recently mentioned that giant amount of bullshit you swallow.
        You're proving my point yet again.

        Hint: If you're getting your "news" about Venezuela from Lamestream Media, what you're getting is Imperialist propaganda.
        OTOH, CounterPunch has been doing excellent reporting. [google.com]

        inflation rate

        I'd like to see how -you- would do with USA and its "LIMA" proxies doing everything they can to tank -your- political system and -your- economy.

        Yeah, pinning the country's economy to petroleum decades ago wasn't the most brilliant thing to do.
        Having the Saudis dumping oil on the market like it's going out of style[2] hasn't helped things either.

        [2] ...as it appears to be doing rapidly.

        ...and the communes putting things back into production is a step in the direction of improving the economy and making the country less dependent on imports.
        ...while the USA-backed Oligarchs there are doing the opposite, attempting to ruin the economy in order to make the gov't look bad.
        Capitalists suck.

        ...meanwhile, the vast majority of Venezuelans say they prefer what they have and voted overwhelmingly not to change it for the Plutocracy being offered by the USA-backed opposition.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday June 01 2018, @04:01AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday June 01 2018, @04:01AM (#687072) Journal

          Under eminent domain, fair market value is paid for what is taken for public use.

          The owner of the property doesn't agree, else the city wouldn't have to seize the land in the first place.

          Hint: If you're getting your "news" about Venezuela from Lamestream Media, what you're getting is Imperialist propaganda.

          It just has to be accurate. While I gather you don't have much experience with propaganda, there are a variety of things to look for.

          Let's glance through the list you gave us for some great examples:

          Venezuela Defeats US in Election

          Every tyranny has to have a bogeyman, a "them" to both unite against and to scapegoat for the failures of the tyranny.

          Venezuela’s Bolivarian Revolution Wins the Battle, But is It Losing the War?

          This story spins into great narratives. A good story is a key part of selling many sorts of propaganda. Here, we have the stirring story of the underdog fighting (via an election) against 15 oppressive neighbors, including the bogeyman itself, the US. They miss that those 15 neighbors are all more sane, democratic, and economically competent, but that's the sort of details that slide in a great propaganda story. We also have this gem:

          Legitimate criticisms can be made about some of the circumstances surrounding the elections — for example, the banning of certain candidates and parties and the misuse of state resources (criticisms that can be made about just about any elections, certainly in Latin America). However, no evidence has been presented to show the final vote count was fraudulent.

          In other words, there were strong signs of corruption and election tampering (banning opponents is not a slight thing, contrary to the propaganda), but it's a classic move when one can't deny absolutely everything. What can't be denied is vastly downplayed as being not so bad.

          Venezuelan Elections: Chavismo Still in Power, US Still Belligerent, Media Still Dishonest

          The poor babies - that mean old US is still belligerent, which doesn't mean anything, let us note, but attempts to stir fear of the bogeyman. And the media still dishonest? Well, it's revealing what they then admit:

          Amidst a devastating economic crisis and increasing imperialist aggression this is a very significant victory

          This reminds me of a Nazi ploy - never admit defeat. A naive person might be excused for believing right up to the final defeat of Nazi Germany that it was utterly victorious in its military endeavors. But the more cynical would note that the victories kept coming closer and closer to home.

          Here, there's been two decades of the Bolivarian revolution and yet we have "devastating economic crisis". They clearly aren't moving in a good direction.

          In addition, we're playing by adversarial debate rules. When even the propagandists have to grudgingly admit that there's something of a devastating economic crisis out there, that means it must be an absolute shitstorm in Venezuela. North Korean leadership has weathered worse, so maybe Maduro won't be swinging off a lamppost in a few years.

          A final thing to look for is what isn't said. Note I spoke of three issues, inflation, population outflow, and starvation. OriginalOwner, you responded with an election. This is a typical move when anything said, no matter what direction it goes in, would undermine the propaganda. If you admit massive population outflow, then you're admitting that the people are voting with their feet, not the ballot. If you lie and claim there is no such outflow, then everyone who knows better, knows you lied. In that case, where anything said on the subject is bad, then one says nothing at all. Thus, we get this vapid post about "elections" and "imperialist propaganda" rather than any rebuttal of the serious problems faced by Venezuela.

          I don't believe you are intentionally lying here, OO, I just think your worldview is instinctively organized to propagating propaganda. You've been programmed to avoid hard questions and employ all the usual tricks to keep the topic on message.