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posted by janrinok on Wednesday June 13 2018, @08:53PM   Printer-friendly
from the should-have-seen-it-coming dept.

Earlier this year DePaul University was given the first-ever "Lifetime Censorship Award" by the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education for its long, inglorious history of punishing and suppressing mostly conservative speech.

The nation's largest Catholic university – which doesn't want students to hear about radical Islam's threat to gay people, vandalism against pro-lifers or criticism of race preferences – has appeared with regularity on FIRE's annual list of the worst colleges for free speech.

[...] DePaul is slashing dozens of staff positions to "place the university in a better long-term position to invest in strategic growth," according to a statement to staff Thursday obtained by the Chicago Sun-Times.

The 62 full- and part-time staff members are mostly in administrative support roles, and they represent 3.5 percent of non-faculty workers. The statement didn't specify exact positions. The school avoided the ire of its faculty by sparing them any layoffs.

Source: https://www.thecollegefix.com/post/45753/


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  • (Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:47AM (25 children)

    by Arik (4543) on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:47AM (#692754) Journal
    Hmm? "radical Islam’s threat to gay people, vandalism against pro-lifers or criticism of race preferences" are actually things I'd more expect to hear from a 'right' sort of speaker than a 'left' actually, today and $current year and all. The 'progressives' are supposedly leftists, I know, that makes no sense historically but that's how it's being used.
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    If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
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  • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:59AM (24 children)

    by mojo chan (266) on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:59AM (#692756)

    Support for gay people and criticism of people who claim to have some kind of innate but somehow totally non-racist preference for not dating black people? Those are definitely progressive issues.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    • (Score: 1, Flamebait) by Arik on Thursday June 14 2018, @08:26AM (23 children)

      by Arik (4543) on Thursday June 14 2018, @08:26AM (#692764) Journal
      "Support for gay people and criticism of people who claim to have some kind of innate but somehow totally non-racist preference for not dating black people? Those are definitely progressive issues."

      You're not wrong so much as out of date.

      Gay rights are only important when the other side are straight white males. If they're Muslims, then cultural sensitivity requires the gay males shut the fuck up. The feminists have been looking for an excuse to tell the faggots to do that for decades, they never like them. Also current progressive theory says that if you aren't attracted to black people you're irredeemably racist and should kill yourself immediately.

      I'm not exaggerating, I'm afraid. I even sympathize a little with the second position myself, but ffs they're going so nuts they're just useful idiots for the other side. Look up Evergreen College and Brett Weinstein, there're tons of "backstage" video these idiots leaked themselves laying it out pretty clearly.
      --
      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
      • (Score: 5, Informative) by mojo chan on Thursday June 14 2018, @08:42AM (22 children)

        by mojo chan (266) on Thursday June 14 2018, @08:42AM (#692768)

        Well, I'm a feminist and all that sounds like bollocks to me. Don't fall for the alt-right narrative, just look at modern feminism and see how what you are claiming doesn't fit all with concepts like intersectionality.

        This is all just an attempt to re-frame the far right as the centre ground. Don't fall for it.

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        const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
        • (Score: 4, Insightful) by Arik on Thursday June 14 2018, @09:01AM (10 children)

          by Arik (4543) on Thursday June 14 2018, @09:01AM (#692774) Journal
          Im afraid I haven't seen a feminist make sense since Camille Paglia.

          The alt-right narrative is bollocks. So is the ctrl-left narrative. "Intersectionality" seems to be mostly used as a method to invert liberalism and create a totalitarian leftism to match the totalitarian resurgence on the right, only with vaguely leftist sounding justifications, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you want to point me at someone using that term outside of the Bell Hooks school of thought I'm familiar with.

          I'm afraid it is NOT an attempt to re-frame the right as the centre. It's even worse than that.

          It's an attempt to polarise. It doesn't reframe the right as the centre. It reframes the centre as untenable, wishy washy, a refusal to pick a side, stemming from a weak and defective personality. It frames the right, in its worst sense, as the only alternative to chaos and insanity.

          --
          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
          • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday June 14 2018, @09:16AM (9 children)

            by mojo chan (266) on Thursday June 14 2018, @09:16AM (#692781)

            Do you even know what intersectionality is? How on earth could it be used to create "totalitarian leftism"?

            Can you give a specific example of this?

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            const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
            • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Arik on Thursday June 14 2018, @09:18AM (8 children)

              by Arik (4543) on Thursday June 14 2018, @09:18AM (#692782) Journal
              Easily.

              I already mentioned Brett Weinstein, clearly you haven't researched as suggested, here I'll save you some time.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf5fAiXYr08
              --
              If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 3, Informative) by mojo chan on Thursday June 14 2018, @10:28AM (5 children)

                by mojo chan (266) on Thursday June 14 2018, @10:28AM (#692807)

                I know about Bret (note the spelling), but his little episode doesn't seem to have anything to do with feminism or totalitarianism.

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                const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
                • (Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:21PM (4 children)

                  by Arik (4543) on Thursday June 14 2018, @04:21PM (#692987) Journal
                  "I know about Bret (note the spelling), but his little episode doesn't seem to have anything to do with feminism or totalitarianism."

                  Those students (and the professors who fed them their lines) were all acting in the name and speaking in the language of intersectionalist feminism.

                  You really don't understand that shutting down discussion like that is a hallmark of totalitarianism?

                  --
                  If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
                  • (Score: 1, Troll) by mojo chan on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:15PM (3 children)

                    by mojo chan (266) on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:15PM (#693016)

                    The only person who shut the discussion down was the guy who resigned and then started a lawsuit. Everyone else was talking about it.

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                    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
                    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Arik on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:39PM (2 children)

                      by Arik (4543) on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:39PM (#693035) Journal
                      He tried repeatedly over a period of months to talk about it. They responded by shouting him down, stalking him, physically shutting down the campus until he was pushed out... clearly you haven't actually bothered to watch 5 minutes of the videos that they themselves uploaded or you would know this. They were proud of themselves.
                      --
                      If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
                      • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:45PM (1 child)

                        by mojo chan (266) on Thursday June 14 2018, @05:45PM (#693038)

                        You know that the videos are fake news though, right?

                        You can't really base your assessment of an entire movement on some shitty YouTube videos.

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                        const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
                        • (Score: 1) by Arik on Thursday June 14 2018, @06:03PM

                          by Arik (4543) on Thursday June 14 2018, @06:03PM (#693054) Journal
                          So wait, you're saying the protestors faked the videos they posted? Really? Do you have any proof of this? It would be a rather extraordinary length to go for no obvious gain but perhaps I'm missing something, if so please fill me in.

                          "You can't really base your assessment of an entire movement on some shitty YouTube videos."

                          I'm inclined to agree with you on that, I tend to prefer written sources myself. However the videos have a couple of advantages - in general, people other than myself seem much more likely to watch them than to read a long text I might send instead, and also specifically in this case, that appears to be one of the main ways that the movement we're talking about communicates and expresses itself today. There are many, many videos posted for each written article, at least so far as I've seen.

                          So sure, we don't want to rely on that single source (and I'm not) but on the other hand it hardly makes sense that you would investigate any movement properly by avoiding the places where it speaks. And while it shouldn't be read too deeply, there's *some* truth to the saying that pictures don't lie. Of course in reality we know videos can be faked, but if multiple people who were on the scene corroborate it then we have a very good reason to think it's not faked. Of course we can play certain tricks on the audience insofar as which direction we point the camera at what time, when we turn it on and off, and even moreso if we are able to edit it afterwards, but again tricks of that nature would probably be detectable in some way or another here, if only because there were so many people present who could speak up if that was the case. I'm not even really sure what you're alleging here. That the videos are CGI? Staged? Some of the people that cut them up and rebroadcast them are clearly ideologically driven nutters but that doesn't mean the underlying footage isn't real footage of a real event corroborated by many written sources (including several court papers filed under oath.)

                          --
                          If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:45PM (1 child)

                by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:45PM (#692890)

                Is that the dick who forced a bunch of actresses to show more flesh in movies and possibly give him a happy ending quid pro go?

                • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:19PM

                  by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @07:19PM (#693123)

                  No, you're thinking of Harvey Weinstein.

                  Bret Weinstein was the Evergreen professor that got in trouble with the angry students of Evergreen for ...

                  ... well, for telling them truths that they didn't want to hear, I guess.

                  I know quite a few greeners (that's Evergreen students, for those not familiar with their slang) and the reports have been pretty consistent: what's an loudly angry fringe in most colleges is the mainstream at Evergreen. They not only dropped off the edge of the political world, but went base jumping.

        • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:30AM (8 children)

          by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Thursday June 14 2018, @11:30AM (#692818) Homepage
          I don't agree with the Arik particularly strongly, but what he wrote ties in *exactly* with concepts such as intersectionality, as it's basically giving explicit examples of the insideous application of intersectionality.
          --
          Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
          • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:34PM (7 children)

            by mojo chan (266) on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:34PM (#692876)

            I'll ask you the same question as I asked him. Can you give specific examples of the concepts of intersectionality being used in this way?

            It seems hard to imagine how the mere understanding that people are often subject to multiple social issues that intersect with one another, and that therefore different issues arise and different solutions are needed, could be used for totalitarianism.

            --
            const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
            • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Runaway1956 on Thursday June 14 2018, @02:59PM

              by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Thursday June 14 2018, @02:59PM (#692947) Journal

              I'll answer your question. And, I'll point to Bret. All those intersectional students assumed and/or presumed that their ideas were superior to any ideas that Bret may have, and they assumed the authority to corner him, shout him down, try to intimidate him, and to run him off campus. Authoritarian assholes, all of them.

              Put the shoes on the opposite feet. Suppose some black student(s) were run off of campus because they didn't act white enough? Or, they failed to say "Yassuh" and "Nossuh" when a white addressed them?

              While we are on the subject - let me express my contempt for each and every person who played along with the student's demands, without believing in them. Watch that video. Are all of those white kids self loathing whites, or are they contemptible little shits who are afraid to speak their own minds? Not that there is much difference in the value of the two groups.

              Totalitarian leftism. The left announces it's agenda, refuses to hear any rebuttal, tells you bluntly that "this is going to happen, you can go along, or you can get out".

              Left unchecked, it's only a matter of time until The Night of Broken Glass, or Kristallnacht. Brownshirt bastards.

            • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday June 15 2018, @07:15AM (5 children)

              by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday June 15 2018, @07:15AM (#693365) Homepage
              That's quite a hard one to answer, because every single thing that intersectionalism does seems to be pushing in that regressive (for free society) direction, no matter how progressive they consider themselves.

              Go watch the front pages of Sargon or Thinkery vids, there will be a few hundred specific examples contained therein.
              --
              Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
              • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Friday June 15 2018, @07:31AM (4 children)

                by mojo chan (266) on Friday June 15 2018, @07:31AM (#693374)

                Really, Sargon is your recommended source for this?

                Allow me to counter with https://youtu.be/l9E2iEi6vMY [youtu.be]

                --
                const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
                • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday June 15 2018, @08:31AM (2 children)

                  by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday June 15 2018, @08:31AM (#693386) Homepage
                  No, Sargon is a collater and presenter of the actual sources. If you want primary, then there's a prof in Canada...
                  --
                  Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                  • (Score: 2) by mojo chan on Friday June 15 2018, @08:41AM (1 child)

                    by mojo chan (266) on Friday June 15 2018, @08:41AM (#693389)

                    The problem is you can't take his summaries as accurate so they are worthless. If I were being unkind I'd suggest he does this to deliberately mislead you, but it really seems more like simply laziness.

                    In most cases it turns out that if you check the actual sources they say the opposite of what Sargon thinks they said, so if I'm not inclined to do my own research I tend to assume that if Sargon claimed it happened then it probably didn't.

                    Anyway, we have a bunch of students using some language that you feel is vaguely associated with intersectional feminism... Which proves nothing. You need to show that the concepts of intersectionality themselves are authoritarian.

                    --
                    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
                    • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday June 15 2018, @02:37PM

                      by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday June 15 2018, @02:37PM (#693506) Homepage
                      One way I could reword your final pararagraph would be: we have a bunch of people who are clearly authoritarian, and who use the rhetoric of intersectional feminism, self-identify that way. *You* need to show that they're not real intersectional feminists. (And yes, I assume we're both familiar with "No True Scotsman")

                      (And yes, when sargon mentions something stupid, I immediately google for the report he's looking at, and others reporting the same story. Often I find sources presenting an even more stupid version of events than the ones he's quoting. But, yes, he's very hit and miss, and I use him as a way of being by-name familiar with the half of the world I otherwise desperately try and avoid. I think he enjoys wallowing in shit, saying "this is shit!", too much.)
                      --
                      Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
                • (Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday June 15 2018, @08:32AM

                  by FatPhil (863) <pc-soylentNO@SPAMasdf.fi> on Friday June 15 2018, @08:32AM (#693387) Homepage
                  And technically, what you've just done there is a classic case of /Ad Hominem/.
                  --
                  Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:39PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 14 2018, @01:39PM (#692883)

          Are you one of those kaffirophobes who are claiming that islam is the most feminist religion?

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @12:38PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 15 2018, @12:38PM (#693456)

          The main problem with saying feminism today is that there are at least 3 incompatible philosophy's that claim to be 'feminism' :
          1) the original 'we want equal rights and responsibilities for men and women' crowd
          2) the 'we want equal outcomes eventhough that requires uneaqual rights and responsibilities' crowd
          3) the 'men are obsolete and we need to get rid of them' crowd

          Of the well known self-described feministst 3 is the most common, followed by two, and activists that subcribe to 1 are pretty damn rare these days