SoylentNews is people
SoylentNews
The Pentagon confirmed Monday that major U.S. military exercises this summer in South Korea would be suspended, following President Trump's decision.
'We will be stopping the war games, which will save us a tremendous amount of money, unless and until we see the future negotiation is not going along like it should,' Trump told reporters after his meeting last Tuesday with Kim in Singapore. 'But we'll be saving a tremendous amount of money. Plus, I think it's very provocative.'
foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/18/pentagon-confirms-halt-august-war-games-with-south-korea.html
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Pentagon Confirms Halt of War Games With South Korea
|
Log In/Create an Account
| Top
| 58 comments
| Search Discussion
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Ma Bell is a mean mother!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by isostatic on Wednesday June 20 2018, @12:20PM (31 children)
So Trump went to Singapore and managed to get permission from Kim to
1) Hang a picture of Kim on the whitehouse wall
2) Stop military exercises with South Korea
He's a great negotiator.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @12:26PM (7 children)
I can't say that I really care about this North Korea business, but if Trump actually cared about saving money, he wouldn't have signed off on a large increase in military spending when we already have a ridiculously bloated military. Not only that, but he would completely end the 7+ interventions and wars we're currently engaged in and just bring our troops home.
(Score: 5, Funny) by driverless on Wednesday June 20 2018, @01:29PM
But we need our new Space Cadet Corps, dammit! Service guarantees citizenship! How else are all the children we're separating from their parents at the border going to become US citizens?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @03:00PM (5 children)
He tried to get the USA out of the war in Syria. But every time he started doing stuff about it, "Assad conveniently gasses Syrian children".
I highly doubt Assad or Trump were involved in those gas attacks, but what do you expect Trump to do? Take a higher risk to fight against those who want all those wars that badly? Take a hit on public opinion for ignoring Assad murdering children? He's got better things to do like play golf in Mar-a-Lago and not get "JFK"ed. I'd say he tried his best (I don't have high expectations of him ;) ) and then went "fuck it".
In contrast Clinton wouldn't even have tried to get the USA out of the war - look at how pleased she was about killing Gaddafi and messing up Libya.
The fact is few really care that much about saving money from US military spending. If they did there would be far more noise about this:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-audit-army/u-s-army-fudged-its-accounts-by-trillions-of-dollars-auditor-finds-idUSKCN10U1IG [reuters.com]
https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/msu-scholars-find-21-trillion-in-unauthorized-government-spending-defense-department-to-conduct/ [msu.edu]
Note: even SN editors rejected that story submission. So what's the big deal about military spending if there's no fuss when TRILLIONS go unaccounted for every year?
Apologists/spinmeisters claim those trillions aren't missing and it's not a big deal, it's just some accounting problems... When the Tax Department finds out you have "some accounting problems" that run to just millions (not even billions or trillions) you could end up in jail. Same for when the anti-money laundering bunch check on your "accounting problems".
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @03:21PM
*Sob* *Spittle running down chin* But Hill-a-ree! *Sob* *Self-entitled look on face* What about Hill-A-Reee????
(Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @09:11PM (1 child)
You should stop bringing up someone who didn't get the cut. It makes you sound like a broken record. We are talking about the current situation, not what you think would have happened if someone else was president. We are talking about what IS happening. Try to keep up.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Sulla on Thursday June 21 2018, @01:04AM
I think it is perfectly reasonable to compare the actions of a former secretary of state vs current. Tillerson did not have a government overthrown and under his watch the US stopped funding rebels in Syria that were/are killing civilians. Pompeo has spent his whole time as Sec of State trying to wage peace with NKorea.
Compare that to Hillary that ruined Libya, made shitty decisions about Benghazi and then lied about it, and doubled down on our illegal actions in Syria.
Before her was Kerry who i dont recall having done anything particularily bad. He got us the Iran deal for better or worse.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 3, Interesting) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday June 20 2018, @11:32PM
The mystery of the missing trillions, otherwise known as the REAL news of September 10, 2001!!!
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 21 2018, @06:55AM
We don't need to go to war with Syria even if they gas children. Plenty of countries are run by bad people (such as Saudi Arabia), but we don't go to war with all of them. It's almost as if it's not about freedom or democracy at all...
Yes and yes. If doing what is right means taking risks, then you should still do what is right. He's supposed to be anti-establishment, anyway.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @01:34PM (5 children)
what happened is that kim won.
he gets to do whatever he wants inside his country (which was his goal), and the threat from outside the country has been reduced, plus he'll get more money from the outside.
my hope (and it is just hope, since I have no facts to base this on) is that this was indeed everything that Kim wanted, and that he's not interested in gaining control over South Korea.
because he could do it in the long run.
I am hoping this because if it does happen, it makes a real war in the region quite likely, and when China gets involved, the entire world gets involved...
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @03:34PM
China is all for status quo. They don't want millions of refugees from North Korea. They've plenty of people of their own to worry about.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @08:50PM (2 children)
We shouldn't care if Kim gets everything he wants, excepting that which conflicts with what we want.
Supposedly he gave up more than nukes. Artillery aimed at Seoul will be moved elsewhere.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 21 2018, @07:29AM
the problem is that his successor will have a stronger country to lead, and may need a war with the south to justify his absolute rule.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 21 2018, @07:34AM
He hasn't done anything. Not even agree to the definition of denuclearization. Trump had this meeting for Trump and no one else. Kim had this meeting for skim, and no one else. The private meeting with no notes and no witnesses was sketchy as fuck.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday June 21 2018, @03:54AM
Already had that.
It was already almost completely nonexistent compared to the threat that Kim faces from inside his country.
Maybe. Last time North Korea invaded South Korea, it wasn't because the other side was any kind of threat, but rather because it was not.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by takyon on Wednesday June 20 2018, @01:38PM (12 children)
He can restart the unnecessary war exercises easily.
If all of the talk, ego stroking, and concessions don't result in the goal of halting/reversing NK's nuclear program, he can act accordingly.
[SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
(Score: 4, Interesting) by All Your Lawn Are Belong To Us on Wednesday June 20 2018, @02:09PM (6 children)
And in the meantime coordination between forces is disrupted - you only get to do that for so long (and due to rotation of troops and units the time is not long at all). Denuclearization will take time, and my bet is that degradation of coordination will set in before it is complete. When/if exercises are restarted it would be seen as an escalation, not a return-to-normal. In short, engaging in the exercises from this day forward would be a "provocation" because Trump has already called it "provacative," right? Yeah, that's strategically smart.
Is it provacative? In the sense that the tests (war games are actually training to test the structures in addition to the political messages they send) deliver a message that forces are indeed prepared to go to battle if the political side orders it, sure. It is a demonstration of capability, but it is more than a parade where missile tractors and battalions march in front of the Great Leader to attempt to prove the same thing. In short, handled correctly it isn't very much so.
So what did we get out of the deal? A commitment for MIA remains.... It's not the first time they committed to that. I wonder, though, why it takes special agreement for that to occur. What does intentionally holding remains of dead enemy soldiers as bargaining chips have to say about the moral and ethical structure of North Korea. But now we get to see if they make good. My guess is that this was a tack-on because really all North Korean committed to beyond that was to keep talking. And before that reported but completely unverified demolition of a nuclear test facility that rumor has it was at its operational end, anyway.
I agree that what we've had is better than starting a shooting war.
We'll see.
This sig for rent.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday June 20 2018, @02:25PM (2 children)
You're overstating your case with the loss of coordination. It's just as easy to move some S. Koreans to Kansas, or California, or New Hampshire for training, as it is for us to move stuff over there. Training together doesn't actually require that you be in South Korea to do it.
(Score: 4, Touché) by c0lo on Wednesday June 20 2018, @04:29PM (1 child)
Given that most of the joint military exercises in Korea [wikipedia.org] were based (required) heavy naval support, Kansas seems indeed like the perfect alternative training ground (grin)
Continuing on the same line, here are two other suggestions, one more brillianter than the other:
- take the Afghan and Iraq forces currently under training by US military and start training them in, say, Montana. Because it's cheaper
- round up all the Talibans you are warring with in Afghanistan and Pakistan and disembark them in Arkansas, plonk into the Bible belt. This way you can let the Christian Talibans use their God-given guns to fight the Muslim Talibans for much cheaper than abroad. You can even tax them for the fun they are having.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoFiw2jMy-0 https://soylentnews.org/~MichaelDavidCrawford
(Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Wednesday June 20 2018, @09:30PM
America used to have the greatest military, we used to be so powerful militarily. We actually used to have a beautiful Naval Base in Kansas. Near Olathe, where there was that terrible shooting. But my predecessors, very foolishly, shut it down. Here we are, protecting Korea. Protecting Japan, Germany -- NATO -- so many places. And it's costing us tremendously. To where possibly they're costing us more as friends than they did as enemies. And we're not protecting the middle of our Country the way we used to. And the way we need to. Sad!!!
(Score: 3, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @03:45PM
"more than a parade where missile tractors and battalions march in front of the Great Leader"
so the parade in D.C. is still on?
(Score: 1) by Sulla on Thursday June 21 2018, @01:07AM (1 child)
So out of the past 60 years we postponed one training, i dont see how 1/60 ruins our ability to wage war.
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 21 2018, @07:37AM
Our military, as well as South Korea's, are constantly swapping out personnel. That is the nature of a volunteer military. The new people need the training.
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @02:46PM (4 children)
Depends.
I have long wondered why South Korea and Japan keep offering to be the battlegrounds for the (back then) upcoming nuclear war between the USA and North Korea.
If the talks between North and South Korea turns gets better results than the talks between NK and the USA, he may end up wanting to restart the exercises, but getting a no from the other parties to the exercises.
(Score: 5, Informative) by Arik on Wednesday June 20 2018, @03:22PM (3 children)
In a word, history. For a second, add nationalism.
The Korean Empire was annexed by the Empire of Japan in 1910. It was ruled by Japan for the next 35 years, until the loss in WWII.
Occupiers, even with the best of intentions, are still occupiers, and that's what the Japanese were. There were abuses, atrocities, humiliations to fill many books, and many more were never written down. This is a rough time for any nation that's gone through it. So out of that time you have a lot of national prejudice developed, where before there was relatively little. But also you have two different ways that the Koreans are coping with this. Some of them go full resistance mode. They capture weapons and take to the hills and find ways to fight back. Others stay where they are and try to preserve something like their normal life under the new order that's been imposed by the Japanese.
If we skip ahead to WWII the first group (or their descendents) have managed to take back about half their country from the Japanese, operating from China, with US support. They were expecting full liberation of their country, shocked and outraged when this was not permitted. Instead the government in the south, previously considered a Japanese puppet, was rehabilitated and embraced by the US. That's why partition happened. That's why there was a war.
All of this results in much bad blood, between Japanese and Korean, as well as between north and south.
You can't understand this if you can't shift your point of view and look at the situation from each perspective in turn. You can't begin to understand the situation if you're partisan about it. You have to understand that no group sees themselves as the villains.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 20 2018, @08:57PM (2 children)
You left out the USSR's role in all this.
The USSR declared war with Japan, conveniently right after we had already gone nuclear. Instead of saying "no thanks, too late" we let the USSR grab a few islands from Japan (which is a sore point in Japan to this day) and then let the USSR administer half of Korea. It's the same mistake we made in Germany, letting the USSR administer a big chunk of it. When we decided to put these countries back together and let them run their own affairs, the USSR said "no".
(Score: 3, Informative) by Arik on Wednesday June 20 2018, @11:22PM (1 child)
Oh, I left out volumes. It's necessary, else I would never post, and if I did no one would read it.
"we let the USSR" [...] "then let the USSR"
This all assumes that the USSR was under our control. To put it plainly, it was not. It's quite possible that the converse was closer to the truth, though still not true. The guy in the White House at the time idolized "Uncle Joe" Stalin, and so did many of his key supporters, and he certainly wasn't interested in confronting him. But even if he had been more hostile, or suppose somehow we suddenly got Patton as President - what then? Invade the USSR, really? That wasn't going to fly politically or materially. Nor would it have been wise. The Soviet Union destroyed itself with its own peace-time economic failures. Giving them excuses to stay on war-time economic footing only played into their hands.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 21 2018, @02:05AM
Hitler damn near defeated Stalin. We shipped all sorts of shit over there to ensure history went down a different path. We provided trucks, aircraft...
We didn't need to do that. We didn't need to hand over part of Germany and part of Korea. Of course, the USSR didn't need to be so damn evil.
North Korea is essentially a creation of the USSR, assisted by us being dumb enough to hand it over.
(Score: 4, Informative) by Thexalon on Wednesday June 20 2018, @03:13PM (2 children)
Trump got something out of it: In his own mind and the minds of his believers, he got to look like a great diplomat on TV, and present further evidence that either he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize or the Nobel committee are a bunch of liberals who didn't give him one because they don't want to acknowledge his greatness.
None of that really does anything for the US, South Korea, Japan, or anyone else, but Trump by all appearances believes that what's good for Trump is good for America.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 2) by arslan on Thursday June 21 2018, @07:44AM (1 child)
Eh? The South Koreans seemed happy about it... as someone with families living around the SE Asian region, lots of folks seem happy about a positive shift compared to the long stalemate. Many are hopeful.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about a lot of people from an armchair half way across the world..
(Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday June 21 2018, @02:27PM
Mostly because Trump's actions didn't undo what the South Korean leaders have been trying to do recently, namely negotiate a permanent peace. They're rather keen on doing that so that (a) their citizens can reunite with family members on the other side of the DMZ, and (b) it's less likely they'll all die in a nuclear fireball.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
(Score: 3, Touché) by DeathMonkey on Wednesday June 20 2018, @05:25PM
Hey now, we also got a weakly worded letter that promises to talk about a more strongly worded letter at some point!