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from the my-thermostat-is-holding-me-hostage dept.
In more than 30 interviews with The New York Times, domestic abuse victims, their lawyers, shelter workers and emergency responders described how the technology was becoming an alarming new tool. Abusers - using apps on their smartphones, which are connected to the internet-enabled devices - would remotely control everyday objects in the home, sometimes to watch and listen, other times to scare or show power. Even after a partner had left the home, the devices often stayed and continued to be used to intimidate and confuse.
Connected home devices have increasingly cropped up in domestic abuse cases over the past year, according to those working with victims of domestic violence. Those at help lines said more people were calling in the last 12 months about losing control of Wi-Fi-enabled doors, speakers, thermostats, lights and cameras. Lawyers also said they were wrangling with how to add language to restraining orders to cover smart home technology.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday June 26 2018, @01:49PM (13 children)
I'm sure that may happen in some cases, but I think you overestimate what "non-tech savvy" people understand. For lots of people, a router is just a sort of "magical" device that the cable company configured. They have no idea how it works, and they have a vague sense that certain services (browsing, Netflix, etc.) don't work when it's not on. But would they really connect flickering lights or a thermostat going up and down to the router??
For a true "non-tech savvy" person, I think it's far more likely for them to target the devices themselves directly. And that could lead to massive overreaction, if they don't understand the smart tech in their house and perhaps don't even know the details of where/how their ex installed it. So if lights or speakers are flickering, they take to unplugging all the lights or all the audio/video equipment in their house, etc. If the heat or A/C starts acting wacko, they might just disable their heating/cooling system. Heck, if you actually read the TFA, you can see how people think of responding:
As for the rest of your post:
Again, I suppose this may be true in a minority of cases. But people in these sorts of relationships are often likely to have already had a controlling partner/spouse, who installed and configured the tech -- and likely controlled it all themselves. It's unlikely that many of these women even know how to operate the tech or perhaps don't even realize it's there until the lights start flickering or the heat turns up to 100. Again, the opening paragraphs of TFA make this all quite clear:
People (mostly women) stuck in these situations are already likely to be paranoid. This sort of stuff could lead them to feel like they're actually going crazy -- and to FEAR the devices operating out of their control. Again, I think it's probably likely if they "disable" them, it's not that they are inconvenienced by losing the "smart features" (who cares? they likely didn't even know how to operate them), but rather that they overreact and disable ALL such devices in their house, not replace them... thereby not having any tech (even non-"smart") like those devices to use at all, etc. Or, perhaps as you point out, maybe they even disable the internet, etc.
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Tuesday June 26 2018, @02:43PM (3 children)
Someone else will have already done that for them. In case you don't know, this is how most "modern" smart thermostats work.
That is what cough my eye with this article in the first place. I had my air conditioner replaced and the installers tried to stick me with an awful "smart" thermostat. The thermostat was bitching and whining and some "features" weren't available because I didn't want to give it WiFi access.
BTW, "Reliable Heating and Air" are a bunch of incompetent crooks.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday June 26 2018, @05:56PM (2 children)
Poor word choice. By "connect" here I meant understand. Would someone who is not tech savvy necessarily understand the connection and realize that flickering lights or a crazy thermostat is related to the router?
(Score: 2) by SomeGuy on Tuesday June 26 2018, @07:59PM (1 child)
Ah, well, you have a point but I'd still think that would be their second choice other than ripping the thermostat off the wall. If they ask around or already know that "the internet" comes in through that little blue box with the antennas sticking up, then it would make sense to turn it off for the time being.
If you had someone call you with a house full of infected/powned Internet of Shit electronics would you be able to walk them through resetting each one? Could you even be sure they know that they have found all of the devices? Telling them to shut of their WiFi router might be the quickest short term way do deal with it.
Although I personally find ripping smart thermostats off of the wall to be quite fun :P
(Score: 1) by anubi on Wednesday June 27 2018, @10:03AM
I understand most of these are 24 volt systems. Four wires. One is common.
Three wires left. One is "Cold Call". Connect this to the common and the system goes into air conditioner mode.
The next is "Heat Call". Connect this to the common and the system goes into heating mode.
The last being "Fan". Connect this to the common and the fan runs.
So, if the friggen IOT thingie decides to make your life a living hell, you can still outsmart it with a screwdriver and a few wire nuts, until you can find a simple old thermostat.
Well, that is if you have one of those old-school heat pump systems. The above is how mine works.
There are some newer ones out there with multiple heat and cool stages, significantly more complex. I won't touch 'em until I get some good detailed spec sheets on how the interface works. If I can't run it with an Arduino, forget it. I am not touching any proprietary shit that becomes unserviceable and useless the instant the manufacturer ceases supporting it. I am not talking about a cheapie throwaway can opener anymore... I am talking about something that is really important to me... the HVAC system to my house, that will cost thousands of dollars to replace should the serviceman look at me and say "sorry, that system is obsolete". A good refrigeration mechanic can keep the hardware going damn near forever, but few guys know how to rebuild a blown controller, whose operation is all governed by copyright protected proprietary protocols.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
(Score: 3, Insightful) by frojack on Tuesday June 26 2018, @04:42PM (1 child)
And that would have been EXACTLY the correct thing to do. Replace it with a $18 programmable thermostat from Walmart.
Total cost, including the service call from Joe Handiman probably $75 bucks.
There is no actual ROI on an internet connected thermostat. All the perceived benefits are in "fun of tinkering" the tech-enthused derive.
The same for lights. Get your fat ass off the couch and go over to the wall switch. Put in a dimmer if you REALLY need it.
There is no proven cost or energy savings for internet connected devices of this nature over simple programmable thermostats. Its all advertising hype, and tech-enthusiast glee.
Ask anyone who has had one installed for a year if their bills are significantly lower. Ask if you can see the bills. (They won't show you). Ask when was the last time they had to turn off lights from some remote location. After the first month of fiddling from afar just about everyone realizes there is nothing to be gained by these internet connected devices.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by everdred on Wednesday June 27 2018, @10:46PM
Now I'm not advocating for "smart" thermostats, but I think you're probably overlooking other use-cases, like... I don't know, off the top of my head: beginning to remotely cool/heat your home before you arrive.
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday June 26 2018, @05:14PM (6 children)
Where does the the US find such stupid women? Are they trafficked in from backward countries or what?
Seriously, how can a high-school educated person not be able to read a 1 page manual on how to install a cheap programmable thermostat, or unscrew a lighbulb and replace it with something from Home Depot?
If they have wifi in the house, they have the internet. If they have the internet they can look up the manuals.
By every statistical measure, women are at least as well educated as men in the US. [statista.com]
How can women be demanding equality in opportunity and pay while at the same time claim they are incapable of installing a basic thermostat, re-programming their router, or changing the password on the door bell?
I don't know a single woman who could not handle this problem, even if they had to resort to asking a friend for pointers.
You do women a disservice by perpetuating this myth of helplessness. You are part of the problem!
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday June 26 2018, @06:06PM
There are clueless men in the world too. I in no way meant to imply that women are less able to understand this stuff.
What is the reality from reading TFA is that in a lot of households, guys (who, stereotypically, tend to be more "into gadgets," though obviously this is not always the case) frequently install these things, set them up, and frequently don't bother even discussing the details of these devices or their capabilities with their wives/girlfriends. That's not that women are incapable of understanding the stuff -- but TFA makes clear that many women are surprised when such tampering starts happening because they weren't even made aware of the capabilities of these devices.
I know a number of men who are incapable of these tasks. It's not a problem unique to a gender. I have a number of friends -- male and female, often whole families -- whose router was basically set up by their cable company and they would have no clue how to change any of its settings. When I changed out a thermostat in my own house a few years back, I happened to mention it to a few people I knew, and was surprised at the number of folks (both men and women) who thought this was somehow "advanced" home maintenance.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday June 26 2018, @06:16PM (3 children)
According to https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/survey-reveals-users-have-no-clue-about-router-security/ [soylentnews.org]this survey, 51% of respondents had never done any router maintenance or changed any settings. 31% admitted outright they had no clue how to do anything with their router, while 48% more claimed they didn't even know security maintenance was necessary.
That survey isn't unique. A quick internet search brings up a lot more with similar stats.
I think you grossly overestimate the tech savvy of most people.
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday June 26 2018, @06:20PM
[Sorry I screwed up the link, but obviously you can see the URL... my bad.]
(Score: 2) by frojack on Tuesday June 26 2018, @06:53PM (1 child)
And there are 10,000 web pages that teach you how to get around this temporary ignorance.
Most people don't know how to shut off the water in their own apartment when a pipe breaks.
Do we need to perpetuate this level of stupidity and write laws about it?
To paraphrase the old saw:
Step in deal with fishing attacks for someone and protect them for a day.
Teach someone how to detect and deal with fishing attacks and protect them for life.
No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by AthanasiusKircher on Tuesday June 26 2018, @08:01PM
Bad analogy. Most people know that there is water in their house. Most know that it comes through pipes. Most know that it's at least theoretically possible for a pipe to break.
Many of the victims here didn't even know that their previous (abusive) partner could control devices in their houses remotely, or at least didn't know the extent to which they could do so.
At what point did I ever argue that this level of ignorance was to be encouraged? I didn't argue that, and I'm all for education, empowerment, etc.
But that's all beside the point. The question here really comes down to: Do you believe restraining orders are EVER an appropriate action in a domestic abuse case?
Yes, one can change locks. One can change phone numbers. But restraining orders say that even if such measures prove ineffective, abusers can no longer stalk or terrorize their victims -- or else face severe legal penalties for doing so.
IF you believe that restraining orders are a reasonable remedy in such cases of domestic abuse (often followed by stalking, continued harassment, etc.), then I think it's pretty darn logical that such anti-harassment provisions should apply to taking control remotely of devices in a victim's home. One of the main points of restraining orders is so victims of abuse can feel safe again without having to call the cops every single time the abuser shows up to harass again and again. If they can't even feel safe in their own home without said abuser remotely harassing them, what's the point of a restraining order?
None of this excludes the idea that it's also important to help victims reclaim the devices in their homes, to help them, to educate them, etc. But given the clear assertions in TFA that many victims did not even know the various methods by which they could continue to be harassed in their own homes, it may not be enough just to educate on unknown threats. Again, the point of restraining orders is to prevent all sorts of types of potential harassing behavior through some general principles.
Now, if you don't believe in restraining orders in general, I don't think we have anything to discuss here, because you clearly have a completely different perspective on this. If you DO believe they're an appropriate remedy in some cases, why shouldn't they logically be extended to these forms of harassment??
(Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday June 26 2018, @10:17PM
Frojack is definitely an incel. Only an incel would demostrate such misogyny. You just hate women because you can't get laid, you loser pussy incel beta cuck, you virgin loser faggot, you fucking homo.