Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

SoylentNews is people

posted by martyb on Sunday July 01 2018, @09:00PM   Printer-friendly
from the 'Good-fences-make-good-neighbors'-/-Mending-Wall-/-Robert-Frost dept.

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-mexico-border-history-photos-2017-4:

One of the Trump administration's latest immigration policies has come under fire, after Homeland Security figures revealed that ICE is separating families at the US-Mexico border.

Between May 5 and June 9, border officials separated more than 2,300 children from 2,206 parents, the DHS said Tuesday. The policy, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced in early May, enforces "zero-tolerance" regulations on those who enter the US without documentation. Any migrant who attempts to cross the southern border — even those seeking asylum — is now being prosecuted.

Following mounting pressure from both sides of the aisle, Trump signed an executive order that he said will stop family separation at the border. But the fate of immigrant children already in custody remains unclear, and the order still faces legal obstacles.

The goal of establishing a firm physical boundary to separate the US from Mexico is nothing new. In the country that has the world's largest immigrant population, American presidential administrations have tried tightening security along the border for around a century.

Though the divide was formally established in 1824, the US didn't launch its official Border Patrol until 1924. Inspection and holding stations were created after that, followed by the construction of miles of fences with barbed wire and steel barriers over the next few decades.

The included pictures and captions speak of the changing attitudes towards Mexicans and their efforts to cross the border over the years.


Original Submission

 
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
Display Options Threshold/Breakthrough Mark All as Read Mark All as Unread
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
  • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:11AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:11AM (#701113)

    Except it is in the wrong direction. Last time I went to TJ, I walked across the border through a one way turnstile no questions asked. Many people were killed trying to leave socialist eastern bloc countries.

    According to wikipedia:

    Before the Wall's erection, 3.5 million East Germans circumvented Eastern Bloc emigration restrictions and defected from the GDR, many by crossing over the border from East Berlin into West Berlin; from there they could then travel to West Germany and to other Western European countries. Between 1961 and 1989 the Wall prevented almost all such emigration.[7] During this period over 100,000[6] people attempted to escape and over 5,000 people succeeded in escaping over the Wall, with an estimated death toll ranging from 136 to more than 200 in and around Berlin.

    It was the country they were leaving from doing the shooting.

    A more recent example:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYKNJ--GHGU [youtube.com]

    Starting Score:    0  points
    Moderation   +1  
       Informative=1, Total=1
    Extra 'Informative' Modifier   0  

    Total Score:   1  
  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:23AM

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:23AM (#701118)

    It was the country they were leaving from doing the shooting.

    See also Nazi Germany. Yet the left want people to surrender their guns to a government they constantly compare to Nazis. As illegal immigrants are still leaving their shithole countries for the US in droves. As they attack Trump for calling MS13 animals and play a despicable "think of the children" card over a legal situation the left created. The left has gone full retard when even social liberals like me support Trump rather than leftist insanity.

  • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @03:29AM (7 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @03:29AM (#701177)

    Many people were killed trying to leave socialist eastern bloc countries

    First, I have a problem with the plural.
    Next, your blockquote mentions only the divided -city- of Berlin.

    Additionally, there weren't worker-owned cooperatives[1] in East Berlin; the state controlled everything there and there was no feedback loop from The Workers|the governed.
    That's State Capitalism.

    [1] The fundamental unit of Socialism.

    -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @08:50AM (3 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @08:50AM (#701242)

      That's State Capitalism.

      Ahh, the "not real communism" argument. How original. Mexico now has a socialist president, how long before the "not real communism" trademarks of murder and starvation become evident?

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:55AM (2 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:55AM (#701268)

        You're an idiot.
        ...but you're really good at repeating Lamestream Media's bullshit.

        Here, read what an actual Socialist has to say about Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO):

        AMLO's MORENA party will be no different than the Pseudo-Leftist SYRIZA and its sellout of The Working Class in Greece [wsws.org]

        While vowing that the ruling parties of the past would lose the election, he promised that there “will not be reprisals". This means that the crimes of the past six years, including the disappearance and presumed murder of the 43 Ayotzinapa teaching students, along with countless other massacres by state security forces, not to mention the wholesale corruption which AMLO has made the centerpiece of his campaign, will go unpunished.

        He promised that “we will seek unity to the extent that we can”. Indeed, right-wing former PRI and PAN officials are already being integrated into AMLO’s prospective cabinet, guaranteeing continuity of the anti-working class policies carried out by both parties over the course of decades.

        Hint: Socialist == Anti-Capitalist.
        (That's -NOT- AMLO.)

        Absolutely nothing has been changed in Mexico except the name on the mailbox at the executive mansion.

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @12:44PM (#701308)

          Hint: Socialist == Anti-Capitalist.

          Hint: Ignorance is Strength [wikipedia.org]

          The truth is that, to many people calling themselves Socialists, revolution does not mean a movement of the masses with which they hope to associate themselves; it means a set of reforms which 'we', the clever ones, are going to impose upon 'them', the Lower Orders. -- George Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier 1934

        • (Score: 2) by realDonaldTrump on Monday July 02 2018, @01:12PM

          by realDonaldTrump (6614) on Monday July 02 2018, @01:12PM (#701321) Homepage Journal

          The mailbox at my White House didn't always say President Donald J. Trump. It used to say Marjorie Merriweather Post. At Mar-A-Lago, my Southern White House. And at my Washington White House, it used to Say President Barack Hussein Obama. As everyone knows. But, we're different guys. We do things a little differently. Right? Trust me, it's more than a little.....

          I congratulate Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador on becoming the next President of Mexico. I look very much forward to working with him. There are two very big things we need to talk about, the border and trade.

          Mexico paying for the Border Wall, so important. Now it can happen. We're building a beautiful Wall. With a big, beautiful door. Andres will be very happy to pay for that one, believe me. Because it's going to be terrific for the Mexican people. It's going to stop all those folks coming up from Central America. Going through Mexico, causing many problems. And it's going to stop a lot of the drugs. Not entirely. They throw 60-pound sacks of drugs over our border, very hard to stop. But it'll be less, believe me. A lot less. And we're going to have a see-through Wall. So when there's a sack of drugs coming at you, you'll know. You'll see it. And you'll be able to duck. It has to be see-through, very important for the safety. And we're making it see-through.

          And we need fair trade, not free trade. We need fair trade. It's got to be fair. People say trade war, trade war. I'm talking about a fair war. NAFTA has been a DISASTER. We will either renegotiate it or we will break it. Every agreement has an end. Every agreement has to be fair. And maybe we'll redo NAFTA without Canada. Without Justin from Canada, who's killing us on trade, the dairy and everything else. And call it MAFTA, the Mexico America Fair Trade Agreement. Mexico is taking our jobs. I love the Mexican people. They're great people. The leadership is too smart for our country. But that's about to change (BYE FELICIA!), they're getting a new President, a guy I can work with. That's tremendous. It's absolutely tremendous. There is much to be done that will benefit both the United States and Mexico!!

    • (Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @09:35AM (2 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @09:35AM (#701250)

      Socialism: The collective ownership of the means of production by The Workers.

      That's Communism not Socialism. It's ownership vs. control. In Communism, the government, owns and operates everything. In Socialism, ownership can remain private but government regulations aren't limited to just safety and public health. For instance, say the government owns hospitals and an insurance pool and covers everyone with it as a national health care program. That's communism. Now say the government established a contract and hard caps on coverage and drug costs and tells insurances and hospitals they must participate under those numbers. That's socialism.

      Policing and military are currently communist in the US since it's a public service owned and operated by the government. A free market version would be mercenaries being hired when the country is being invaded to defend its borders (without any central command or limit on their methods aside from upholding basic property laws and the like) and private individuals hiring bodyguards when feeling threatened (without any limit on who can provide such services). Infrastructure is currently socialist. Going communist would be for the country to hire and operate the work crews directly. Going free market would be to let people and businesses figure out utilities and transportation on their own.

      The real problem the US is ideology. People are emotionally invested in service models regardless of efficiency or viability. The truth is there is no right and wrong here. Just costs. People need healthcare and insurances. A functioning modern nation wouldn't let poor people die in the streets because they can't afford it since it creates social instabilities that harm the economy. That is, housing tanks every few years while the middle class keeps shrinking until there's no one to buy anything but the basic commodities. So, every other nation made sure to create social security - in one form or the next - since it's cheaper in the long run. And the countries that didn't ended up like the US: With failed economies with a few really rich guys and a whole lot of really poor guys.

      Currently the US has a trade deficit with just about every other major industrial country: https://www.thebalance.com/trade-deficit-by-county-3306264 [thebalance.com] Basically, if they're building stuff, the US is over paying for it. Each of them takes a different approach to the same problems the US is facing. Japan substituted its reliance on immigrants with automation at the cost of heavy investments in automation and social services to deal with huge unemployment and partial employment figures. Germany imports Turks into labor camps and provides similar social services to its people as Japan. China has its own workers but still needs to heavily subsidizes and regulate whole industries to deal with unemployment. Canada is somewhere in between Germany and Japan...

      So, putting it altogether and come up with the best, most cost effective strategy comes out with two options: Heavy automation or opening up the borders. But, debate principles as you like, the social services coverage is coming either way. Not because of some principle. But because, like a standing army, once your neighbors have it, you can't afford not to.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:34AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @10:34AM (#701263)

        You've invested a great number of words to prove you know nothing about this topic.

        Look up "Liberal Democracy".
        Hint: It's what you think is "socialism".

        Socialism is an ECONOMIC system.
        It's possible to discuss Socialism without ever mentioning The State.
        I have done that lots of times. [soylentnews.org]

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @11:33AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 02 2018, @11:33AM (#701275)

          Wrong. Liberalism is political and moral philosophy. Libertarianism is a collection of political philosophies and movements. Socialism and Communism are economic and social systems. The fact so many Americans are confusing all of this and trying to apply ideas from philosophy to the economy and government is the kind of naive thinking OP hints to with "The real problem the US is ideology. People are emotionally invested in service models regardless of efficiency or viability...". You're telling me your economic ideas work? Show me the model. Show me a working and tested fiscal and monetary policy that abides to your ideals. Tell me how international trade works when your opposition are leveraging subsidizes against your free market. Run the opposition model and a full game theory match and show me how it all supposed to work.

          This Libertarianism / Liberalism nonsense is barely a foot removed from global warming conspiracies. Governments, markets and societies in general don't work like that. They never worked like that. It's not a question of extremes. It's a question of fantasies. We make fun of communists for a failed system. But at least it was a real world system that operated for decades on end. Where did a free, unregulated market ever lasted that long? Sure they were guilty of the same stupid mistake: Letting ideology overwrite per-case considerations. But they still lasted longer than most. And those nuts at North Korea are still there so it at least works in a vacuum. And then there's all the communes that abolished private property... Nut jobs or otherwise, that's still more than the right-wing libs ever accomplished.