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posted by mrpg on Wednesday July 04 2018, @12:00AM   Printer-friendly
from the pollution dept.

[...] "Plastic pollution is surpassing crisis levels in the world's oceans, and I'm proud Seattle is leading the way and setting an example for the nation by enacting a plastic straw ban," Mami Hara, the general manager of Seattle Public Utilities, told KOMO News.

The National Park Service estimates 500 million straws are used by Americans each day.

The Seattle ban actually began with an ordinance prohibiting one-time-use food service items in 2008, but the city has allowed exemptions on certain items every year since. For example, Styrofoam food packaging was banned in 2009, according to the Seattle Times. But because of the market, plastic utensils and straws have been exempted in Seattle's ban until now, the newspaper reported.

Seattle bans plastic straws, utensils, becoming first major US city to do so


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by jmorris on Wednesday July 04 2018, @02:09AM (32 children)

    by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @02:09AM (#702309)

    Yup, they are officially "abilist"

    Banning Straws Won't Save the Oceans [psmag.com]

    Every few months, another city, state, or country announces that it's banning the use of plastic straws. These policies are meant to lead the way in removing plastics from the ocean, but, according to our best estimates, straws are not a major source of marine plastic pollution, and such laws are unlikely to have a noticeable affect on the levels of plastic entering our waters. The proposed bans do, however, have the unintended effect of making restaurants less accessible for many disabled people, while revealing the ableism embedded in far too much consumer-based environmentalism.

    Lots of other articles where "experts" end up admitting the bans won't actually accomplish much, but they all support them anyway because they will "raise awareness something something mumble don't unperson us for crimethink."

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  • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 04 2018, @02:35AM (20 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 04 2018, @02:35AM (#702319) Journal

    Too much plastic, in too many places where it doesn't belong, including our oceans. But, banning plastic is bad?

    As an "abilist", I suggest that if you cannot drink from a cup, then you should carry your own reusable straw with you when dining out.

    I don't care if straws are a "major source" of marine plastic pollution. If there are only fifty straws circulating in the Pacific ocean, then that is fifty too many. Ban the damned things!

    Disclaimer: I don't really give a damn about the straws, but the "abilist" argument seems pretty stupid. How many people are eating in public places who cannot drink without a straw? FFS

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:05AM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:05AM (#702332)

      I don't know, might be a cultural thing at least here, they're pretty strict about traces of non-halal food staining cups/plates/utensils (I do not live in the west, don't bother with your western moralism).

    • (Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:19AM (6 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:19AM (#702339)

      you should carry your own reusable straw with you

      Heh. Guys with purses^W fanny packs containing a knife, fork, and spoon; reusable cup; straw; whatever.

      if you cannot drink from a cup

      Reminds of the guy in "Airplane!" who has "a drinking problem". [google.com]

      Even when I was little, there was a thing called a Tippy Cup. [google.com]
      Kinda like using training wheels when transitioning from a tricycle to a 2-wheeler.

      -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

      • (Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @04:58AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @04:58AM (#702387)

        When I was little, we had waxed paper straws.
        I liked the way they smelled and I would always scrap the wax off with my teeth because it made them slippery. We didn't drink nearly as much soda (or eat at restaurants for that matter) as people do today.

      • (Score: 2) by AnonTechie on Wednesday July 04 2018, @09:14AM (4 children)

        by AnonTechie (2275) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @09:14AM (#702464) Journal

        Good idea, but about about your Homeland Security and the much loved TSA ?

        --
        Albert Einstein - "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
        • (Score: 2) by isostatic on Wednesday July 04 2018, @09:25AM

          by isostatic (365) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @09:25AM (#702467) Journal

          I don't think they'll be banning straws, not unless there's a major commercial benefit to airside retailers (hence banning water)

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @10:36AM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @10:36AM (#702488)

          Well, for starters, it's not -MY- TSA.
          If it was, that useless bunch would have disappeared in a puff of logic.

          Further, there's nothing that says all of that stuff couldn't be made of *durable, reusable* plastic.

          WRT the knife, my cardiologist is Sikh.
          I asked him about the dagger thing [google.com] WRT airliners and gov't buildings and he says that he carries a pocketknife everywhere he goes and nobody ever gives him any shit about it.

          -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

          • (Score: 3, Informative) by HiThere on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:20PM (1 child)

            by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:20PM (#702661) Journal

            Reusable straws need to be personal, as cleaning them is quite hard. OTOH, paper straws work pretty well. And there are biodegradable plastics that would do a good job. (Just call them something besides plastic. (They're a different chemical, so that should work, but lawyers...) Call them stabilized paper or some such. (I.e., paper impregnated with a stabilizing agent. Wax was used in the past, but the corn stalk based polymers should do a better job, and still be biodegradable.)

            --
            Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
            • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @09:09PM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @09:09PM (#702737)

              Yeah, I've heard about that stuff but I'm not sure I've ever encountered it IRL.

              It does make me wonder how well it would survive when dunked in a liquid for 15 minutes or more.

              -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

    • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:20AM (7 children)

      by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:20AM (#702340)

      Typical potential tyrant thinking. Anything you don't like must be forbidden and anyone disobeying your edicts shot in the head. Oh you will deny that last part but it is the only way the restaurant owners don't just pat you on your head and say "thats nice, now run along and we will get back to giving customers what they like."

      But yea the abilist thing is stupid, another example of $current_year zaniness and the Revolution eating itself. WHich is why I posted it, because this entire subject is stupid, people who obsess over this sort of thing are stupid. Making fun of them is the most effective remedy.

      But the fact remains that plastic straws in the West are not a problem.

      Study reveals 90% of global plastic waste comes from just TEN rivers in Asia and Africa [blazingcatfur.ca]

      Yea, not the primary source but once in awhile ya gotta show some love to the bloggers and aggregators who spread those primary links around. Hint: none of the ten rivers are in the New World.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:36AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:36AM (#702350)

        Though it's dated yesterday, that story is old.

        I want to see what the new numbers are in a year's time.
        Our June 22 story:
        China Just Handed the World a 111-Million-Ton Trash Problem [soylentnews.org]
        (They're not accepting any more of USA's "recycling".)

        -- OriginalOwner_ [soylentnews.org]

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:13AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:13AM (#702834) Journal
          Why would they be different in a year's time? It's not like China's government is actually interested in pollution reduction.
      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:57AM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:57AM (#702366)

        Typical potential tyrant thinking.

      • (Score: 2) by SanityCheck on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:46AM (2 children)

        by SanityCheck (5190) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:46AM (#702401)
        • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday July 04 2018, @07:12AM (1 child)

          by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @07:12AM (#702414)

          There is no getting off this ride. So either go with a general purpose FTGE or go all the way and pray to your choice of SMOD or the Yellowstone Supervolcano to end this madness. Because this ends with a Kaboom of one sort or another. Sudden natural disaster triggering a collapse, 90%+ die off and rebirth of civilization is the unlikely happy scenario. Even the Trumpening can only buy a little more time to be ready. The realistic scenarios are grim and the prospects for survival are low, even a super prepper might manage 50-50 odds at best because nobody can predict which of the insane things we are doing will be the one that first breaks the system beyond repair. All four horsemen will show up in the end but it matters in what order.

          • (Score: 4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @12:32PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @12:32PM (#702513)

            the one that first breaks the system beyond repair

            AKA the last straw ;)

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:21PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:21PM (#702565) Journal

        Just so you know - I've already talked to the karma gods. Yes, I will be a tyrant in my next life. In exchange, they demanded that I stick around this life for another 40 years or so, and watch the liberals are doing with the world.

        BTW - I'll be needing a good lapdog while I'm tyranting. Want me to put a word in for you? ;^)

    • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday July 04 2018, @12:39PM (3 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 04 2018, @12:39PM (#702515) Journal

      Too much plastic, in too many places where it doesn't belong, including our oceans. But, banning plastic is bad?

      What part of "no noticeable effect" did you miss?

      As an "abilist", I suggest that if you cannot drink from a cup, then you should carry your own reusable straw with you when dining out.

      Or the restaurant could provide those straws as they do now. After all, they know we'll need them. Environmental virtue signaling is one of those places where people routinely ignore that intent need not match outcome. It's remarkable how poorly justified this plastic straw ban is, yet it'll continue anyway because someone needs to publicly pretend to care about the environment.

      • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:27PM

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:27PM (#702570)

        I can't speak to plastic straws in the ocean,but banning the common use of unnecessary drinking aids made of plastic WILL result in less plastic waste overall. This isn't rocket science and just look at jmorris to see how much crazier your "side" is. Common sense is your mantra right up until your emotions get triggered.

      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday July 04 2018, @04:07PM (1 child)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 04 2018, @04:07PM (#702590) Journal

        After all, they know we'll need them.

        Define "need", please.

        I have never, in my life, "needed" a straw. I've most certainly not needed once since I had my coffee IV put in. "Need" is something like water, oxygen, and nutrients. There may be some small number of people on this earth who really and truly "need" a straw to drink with. Dude got his jaw broken in an accident, and has half of his head wired together - he'll have a helluva time drinking without a straw. (Someone once told me that beer is more intoxicating when sucked through a straw.)

        Not only have you failed to make any points with this, but you've made yourself look a little silly. "I NEEEEED my straw!"

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @10:03PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @10:03PM (#702751)

          Time to have your friend get tested for neurological problems.

  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:45AM (9 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:45AM (#702359)

    This may come as a shock, but before the age of plastic people quite ably used disposable paper straws. I expect we'll see their return to prominence as the anti-one-use plastic product march gains steam.

    • (Score: 2) by zocalo on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:29AM (7 children)

      by zocalo (302) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:29AM (#702398)
      Amongst plenty of other disposable and bio-degradable products, especially if you include different parts of the world. Non-glazed earthernware is quite popular for plates and cups in some areas of Asia, for instance; it's good enough for a few uses (although generally only used for one), then breaks back down to dirt with a little banging about and the application of some water once discarded in the trash, gutter, or roadside. For some reason we became fixated on the use of plastic, especially in the west, despite it having no real benefits over natural alternatives other than (presumably) cost, and now that the environmental impact of plastic is becoming clear I don't think paper straws will be the last of those to make a comeback. If deprecating plastic bags and straws is only the start, maybe it will add up to enough to make a difference - you've got to start somewhere.
      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by bitstream on Wednesday July 04 2018, @07:05AM

        by bitstream (6144) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @07:05AM (#702409) Journal

        "For some reason" = Spam and lobbying. Like then and like it's now ;-)

      • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday July 04 2018, @12:43PM (4 children)

        by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 04 2018, @12:43PM (#702516) Journal

        despite it having no real benefits over natural alternatives other than (presumably) cost

        When you ignore cost and practicality, then anything becomes reasonable. Why not just hire people to hold food for the diners so that no bowls need to be used at all? There after all is no real benefit to bowls at all other than cost and practicality.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:29PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @03:29PM (#702571)

          Jesus, why do you always defend the worst parts of corporate behavior?

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:15AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:15AM (#702836) Journal
            Because freedom is attacked by targeting the unpopular stuff first.
          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Friday July 06 2018, @12:23PM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Friday July 06 2018, @12:23PM (#703451) Journal
            As an aside, if plastic straws are the "worst" of corporate behavior, then we really don't have much of a problem, do we?
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @04:44PM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 04 2018, @04:44PM (#702606)

          How about you hold my balls? Yeah, that's it.

      • (Score: 2) by HiThere on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:33PM

        by HiThere (866) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday July 04 2018, @06:33PM (#702666) Journal

        Plastic has several benefits over other materials. It's also got unique costs.

        E.g., plastics are much lighter than unglazed not-highly-fired ceramics of nearly equivalent strength. (You did say it breaks down quickly, so it can't have been highly fired. Even adobe doesn't break down quickly.)

        In your comparison you're probably imagining unglazed china as the ceramic, but that wouldn't meet your description. I'm actually having trouble thinking of a ceramic that *does* meet your description. Possibly something fired in a cooking oven, but I would think that would break down to quickly to be cleaned several times, unless the cleaning didn't involve water.

        FWIW, if you want a good choice that's fairly light, durable, and ecological, try wood. You shouldn't soak a wooden plate, but an unfinished wood is naturally anti-bacterial, and you could wash it briefly, and clean anything stubborn off with sandpaper. (This would probably not be acceptable in the US for commercial use. But cutting blocks are used in kitchens all over the world.)

        --
        Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
    • (Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Wednesday July 04 2018, @07:04PM

      by suburbanitemediocrity (6844) on Wednesday July 04 2018, @07:04PM (#702685)

      Think of the trees

  • (Score: 2) by DeathMonkey on Thursday July 05 2018, @06:19PM

    by DeathMonkey (1380) on Thursday July 05 2018, @06:19PM (#703134) Journal

    Banning Straws Won't Save the Oceans [psmag.com]

    .,.. but, according to our best estimates, straws are not a major source of marine plastic pollution,...

    So that "straws are not a major source of marine plastic pollution" is a link to a paper that supposedly supports the claim that straws are not a major source.

    Click the link.....Ctrl-F "straw"....0 hits. Huh?

    So what is the study called? "International policies to reduce plastic marine pollution from single-use plastics (plastic bags and microbeads): A review" It's not even a study of plastic pollution sources!

    Typical Conservative liar....