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posted by Fnord666 on Thursday July 05 2018, @01:45PM   Printer-friendly
from the the-simple-answer-is-that-there-isn't-a-simple-solution dept.

The problems of gerrymandering are manifold, often debated and lamented. Now, a group of computational geometers from Tufts, MIT and others are working the problem from different fronts. From https://sites.tufts.edu/gerrymandr/

The Metric Geometry and Gerrymandering Group (MGGG) is a small Boston-based team of mathematicians launched by Moon Duchin of Tufts University. Our mission is to study applications of geometry and computing to U.S. redistricting. We believe that gerrymandering of all kinds is a fundamental threat to our democracy.

Our goals are:

  • to pursue cutting-edge research in the practically relevant applications of geometry, topology, and computing to the redistricting problem;
  • to foster collaboration with researchers in statistics, supercomputing, law, political science, and other fields;
  • to facilitate direct civic engagement by training scholars from a variety of quantitative backgrounds to serve as expert witnesses and consultants in redistricting cases;
  • to educate the public, both through direct outreach and by helping college and high school teachers incorporate units on voting, gerrymandering, and civil rights into the mathematics curriculum;
  • to build a diverse community of mathematically inclined people around the country and give them the knowledge and the tools to hold map-drawers accountable when 2020 comes around.

And from https://sites.tufts.edu/gerrymandr/get-involved/

We are assembling a team of mathematicians, lawyers, statisticians, and active citizens of all stripes to work on practical metrics and solutions for gerrymandering in advance of the 2020 U.S. Census. If you're interested in joining our community, please fill out our Skills and Interest Inventory form.

For anyone that wants to get up to speed on this complex and important topic, https://sites.tufts.edu/gerrymandr/resources/ is a page of links to a variety of related papers and articles.

SN discussed the math of the gerrymander back in 2014,
https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/12/27/1148245

   


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  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by VLM on Thursday July 05 2018, @02:54PM (14 children)

    by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @02:54PM (#702996)

    Leftists don't like borders for non-whites, not only are these guys academics which implies leftism but even worse they're in Boston, so you know they're left of Marx himself, so this all implies you can predict the conclusion they've already selected before they go thru the motions of searching for evidence to support their pre-selected conclusion aka the modern disreputable soft science research process.

    I think no borders and no border control means we can and should station the US First Armored division along the outskirts of Mexico city to encourage compliance with US Policies and if they complain "hey fuck you, borders are fascism we have a right to your land just like you have a right to ours". Also I should be able to open and concealed carry in any location in any building because only Nazis want borders, and I'm not a member of a long defunct 1930s political party from the other side of the planet.

    Somewhat more seriously (or... maybe the above is a pretty good idea?) the solution might be to issue every citizen a ballot you can cast in any individual local election exactly one time.

    Or decouple the process of voter registration address from physical living address, if I don't like the 2nd congressional district my voting address can legally become the R-party HQ postal address of the 1st district. If I want to throw my vote away that's my right already, so if I live in the 2nd and vote in the 1st, thats my "dumb" decision. The biggest problem would be stopping disenfranchisement, someone changing someone elses area.

    The problem with Democracy is the purpose of it is to tranquilize the population by having the oligopoly select both candidates and then lying to the voters that "they had a choice so shut up about revolution and shit". If you actually wanted representation of equal population districts, simply randomly issue ballots, looks like my job today is to find the best leader the 7th district can possibly have. There will be racial issues such that the low IQ neighborhoods will have leaders selected by people much smarter than them on average and vice versa of course, but on average this random voting system seems fair, if you're trying to make a fair voting system and not a propaganda play using fake democracy like we have now (except for Trump, which is why "they" hate Trump)

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  • (Score: 1, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 05 2018, @03:12PM (2 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 05 2018, @03:12PM (#703004)

    If you think gerrymandering and congressional district "borders" has anything to do with immigration... you might be a moron.

    • (Score: 1, Troll) by VLM on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:10PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:10PM (#703095)

      If you don't, you might be a commie?

    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:22PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:22PM (#703102)

      As an example of the problem, random Mexican citizens get to vote in the 3rd district whenever they feel like it, but I can't, because I'm merely a citizen living in the 2nd.

      Seems unfair that foreign citizens have better representation in our government than actual citizens get. Equal protection clause and all that other obsolete "hate speech" stuff.

      If random Mexicans get to vote in the 3rd district, I should get to vote in Mexican elections either by ballot or by sending in a Army tank division. Its only fair.

  • (Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 05 2018, @03:17PM (1 child)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 05 2018, @03:17PM (#703007)

    Resistance to borders is typically associated with right-wing libertarianism like anarcho-capitalism. e.g. David D. Friedman's response to open-borders libertarianism: http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Libertarian/Welfare_and_Immigration.html [daviddfriedman.com]

    And here's Walter Block's response: http://www.walterblock.com/publications/a-response-to-the-libertarian-critics-of-open-borders-libertarianism/ [walterblock.com]

    Since the "left" supports regulations and their enforcement, they typically advocate strong borders and emphasize sovereign rights. As for what's happening in the USA between Ds and Rs, that has absolutely nothing to do with any definition of left and right anyone can recognize. There no ideologies there. No economic theories. No political sciences. Just tribalism, nepotism and corruption from all camps.

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday July 05 2018, @06:33PM

      by frojack (1554) on Thursday July 05 2018, @06:33PM (#703145) Journal

      And the color of the sun in your world?

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
  • (Score: 5, Interesting) by Thexalon on Thursday July 05 2018, @03:31PM (4 children)

    by Thexalon (636) on Thursday July 05 2018, @03:31PM (#703019)

    A counter-proposal which some people are actually seriously exploring: We'd pick one citizen at random from each district to form our House. The advantages of this include:
    1. There are no more professional politicians.
    2. The random selection is at least as likely to actually represent the population than an election does.
    3. The people serving as representatives know they're out next term no matter what. Their incentive to make good decisions is that they'll have to live with the consequences as ordinary citizens in a couple of years.
    4. There's less incentive to spin partisan BS on the TV. Heck, parties themselves might become a bit obsolete, because most people are liberal on some things and conservative on other things and somewhere not even on that political compass on still other things.

    And that would also reduce the incentive to gerrymander, since the only way you're going to ensure that someone you like will be the next office-holder would be to make an entire district of people who think just like you, which is impossible.

    --
    The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:18PM

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:18PM (#703099)

      Note that I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating that a traditional argument against that, that I've heard since at least the 80s, is its essentially a transfer of power from legislative to long term employees in the executive branch. Unclear if thats even good or bad. Also that turns the congressional office chief of staff from president of the coffee fetchers into something like a viceroy. Of course there are solutions to that, too, or maybe its a good thing.

      I'm just saying you have a nice list of positives but you gotta prep for the inevitable list above of negatives, which the entire entrenched deep state swamp will be screaming at the top of their lungs on CNN and all the other propaganda outlets.

    • (Score: 2) by frojack on Thursday July 05 2018, @06:37PM (2 children)

      by frojack (1554) on Thursday July 05 2018, @06:37PM (#703150) Journal

      Their incentive to make good decisions is that they'll have to live with the consequences as ordinary citizens in a couple of years.

      Their incentive is the same as if they won the State Lottery. Take all the money you can carry, and run. Plan on moving.

      --
      No, you are mistaken. I've always had this sig.
      • (Score: 2) by Thexalon on Thursday July 05 2018, @07:01PM (1 child)

        by Thexalon (636) on Thursday July 05 2018, @07:01PM (#703161)

        Take all the money you can carry, and run.

        How is that different from what our current politicians do? About the only thing I can think of is that they don't have to stop after 2 years if they're in a "safe" district (which the vast majority of Congresscritters are).

        --
        The only thing that stops a bad guy with a compiler is a good guy with a compiler.
  • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:54PM (2 children)

    by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @04:54PM (#703074) Journal

    We CAN control our borders, and we should.

    Doing so should not cause us to become the kind of government we were fighting against in the previous century.

    We should not have to tear families apart with no plan for re-uniting them ever. We should not have to keep people in poor conditions.

    We should keep criminals out. We should give fair consideration to asylum seekers.

    We should not be prejudiced against people just because they have non-white skin.

    --
    People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
    • (Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:23PM (1 child)

      by VLM (445) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:23PM (#703103)

      Doing so should not cause us to become the kind of government we were fighting against in the previous century.

      Socialist? Thinking of the Berlin Wall and the walls in Israel and all that.

      • (Score: 2) by DannyB on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:45PM

        by DannyB (5839) Subscriber Badge on Thursday July 05 2018, @05:45PM (#703110) Journal

        You are the one who brought up walls at all. But if Trump (and supporters) think a wall is necessary to control our border, then maybe we should step back and ask why so many people want to come here or flee from where they are at.

        I was thinking we should not become like governments that want to preserve the pure white race and eliminate all others.

        --
        People today are educated enough to repeat what they are taught but not to question what they are taught.
  • (Score: 3, Informative) by PartTimeZombie on Thursday July 05 2018, @09:09PM

    by PartTimeZombie (4827) on Thursday July 05 2018, @09:09PM (#703245)

    Gerrymandering is the result of the fact that the two political parties you have in the US are just a tool of the groups who really run the joint, and they don't want complications like extra parties to have to control. This helps explain, although it is long. [princeton.edu]

    This piece is a better explantion, along with one example of how you have no power. [theatlantic.com]

    Pretending there is a "left" in US politics is one of the tricks the real power brokers like to use, but there is no left, just right and far right.

    Oh, and gerrymandering is a solved problem, (largely) but I don't imagine the US would be prepared to look at other countries' system and adopt them, as you don't seem to see any need to actually reform your 18th century setup.