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People in the past were not all dead by 30. Ancient documents confirm this. In the 24th century BCE, the Egyptian Vizier Ptahhotep wrote verses about the disintegrations of old age. The ancient Greeks classed old age among the divine curses, and their tombstones attest to survival well past 80 years. Ancient artworks and figurines also depict elderly people: stooped, flabby, wrinkled.
This is not the only type of evidence, however. Studies on extant traditional people who live far away from modern medicines and markets, such as Tanzania's Hadza or Brazil's Xilixana Yanomami, have demonstrated that the most likely age at death is far higher than most people assume: it's about 70 years old. One study found that although there are differences in rates of death in various populations and periods, especially with regards to violence, there is a remarkable similarity between the mortality profiles of various traditional peoples.
High infant mortality and inaccuracy at the other end of the age range skew the numbers.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday July 18 2018, @12:46AM (14 children)
Modern primitive tribes members work around 4 hours a day. Mind that they exist in a rather harsh environment as all good places are taken by so called civilised folks
Estimation vary, but during old days our ancestors probably worked 2 hours a day max.
They also had a good social security system designed to keep aggression in check. All olders became elders and do nothing while drinking beer and advising youngsters on issues. With 2 hour a day work requirement it's probably plausible to spend bigger part of one's live in retirement.
So, absent injury or sickness, the life expectation got to be sky high and life is generally very happy.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 18 2018, @01:01AM (1 child)
Modern primitive tribe members work 4 hours per day selling crack, and spend the other 20 hours listening to hip-hop.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 18 2018, @01:18AM
Then legalize it so the market is quickly monopolized by two or three corporations. That will show them.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by Arik on Wednesday July 18 2018, @01:50AM (3 children)
The two went together, as well. You might well get by on 4 hours a day - in good times - but that's 4 hours of real work, not loafing around, not sitting in a chair.
And the food you could gather in those 4 hours of work wouldn't contain a lot more calories than you burned in those 4 hours to get it. There wasn't any cola, or any gummy bears. Just raw foods that you have to work hard to get.
Voilá! No one is overweight! Well, yeah, no one has the opportunity to be.
Many of the big causes of death today are neatly avoided in that scenario, and there are certainly advantages, but you're really falling all the way into the other fallacy - the noble savage rot. No work? Maybe no one to tell you to do this work instead of that, or when to do it, or whatever... depending on the social traditions you might have a lot of autonomy - but you worked. You worked damn hard, or you starved.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by sjames on Wednesday July 18 2018, @02:27AM
In the Middle ages, "a day's work" was sunrise to lunch or lunch to sunset. Part of why we eat poorly is that we are busy working when we should be cooking. You get home, nuke some less than healthy something and due to mental tiredness, vegetate on the couch, then go to bed.
(Score: 2) by dry on Thursday July 19 2018, @03:10AM (1 child)
Depends on where you lived. The natives around here spent about 2 weeks a year harvesting and curing a years worth of salmon, lots of calories for a couple of weeks of work.
(Score: 2) by Arik on Thursday July 19 2018, @04:17AM
They didn't cure up a bunch of fish then loaf the rest of the year. The cured fish gave them a reserve for winter - and not enough by itself.
Also they didn't actually cure most of the fish. Back in the day the yield from those runs was way more than they could cure. They probably fed most of it to the dogs. The dogs, also, were part of the food reserve for winter. And fresh dog was preferred to preserved fish.
If laughter is the best medicine, who are the best doctors?
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday July 18 2018, @02:50AM (7 children)
Except that the leading cause of death among primitives is interpersonal violence, or as we'd call it, murder.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday July 18 2018, @03:58AM (6 children)
That's because they exist in harsh environment and can't provide social security. Typical mechanism for reducing inter tribe violence is an institution of elders. Good people are elected elders and do nothing but drink beer. Murderers and other violators don't make elders, work till old, and die early in poverty.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 18 2018, @07:26AM (1 child)
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 18 2018, @09:04AM
Only if they do it for their work, not for fun.
(Score: 2) by MichaelDavidCrawford on Wednesday July 18 2018, @03:32PM (1 child)
The movie "Dead Birds" is a documentary on two tribes in Guinea who from time to time do battle.
Whichever tribe wins enjoys good hunting, fertile women and the like. But the losing tribe knows not but despair, so the the losing tribe loses patience then starts another war.
Eventually just one man dies. Both tribes withdraw, the losing tribe being the one whose man dies.
Just One Man.
Eventually some anthropologists turned up then taught both tribes how to play soccer: no more war.
Yes I Have No Bananas. [gofundme.com]
(Score: 2) by legont on Wednesday July 18 2018, @09:37PM
This is not murder, but war. War was always used in primitive tribes to control the population density. (in modern times war is used to control production capacity)
Here is (I believe South American) example (simplified). Humans could hunt all the meat around and die of hunger - hence hunting taboo on tribe's grounds. Meat is necessary though. The strategy is to kill newborn girls and have boys to go to war with the tribe next door to get girls. While over there, they are free to hunt and eat meat.
Obviously girls are just propaganda and the real goal is to eat other tribe meat and control the population. This arrangement was stable for many thousands years.
"Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding" - John Kenneth Galbraith.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Wednesday July 18 2018, @03:46PM (1 child)
Actually, no. There have been a few studies on the topic, with tribes that had little or no outside contact, and basically murder is the tribal sport, accounting for 40-60% of deaths (and in some cases, nearly all deaths). And they were by no means insecure; they do well enough that most people do very little work. And you get to be an elder by doing unto others first.
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @05:25AM
My friend says you're wrong and could just be making this up.