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A quarter-century ago, there were 56 teenagers in the labor force for every "limited service" restaurant — that is, the kind where you order at the counter.
Today, there are fewer than half as many, which is a reflection both of teenagers' decreasing work force participation and of the explosive growth in restaurants.
But in an industry where cheap labor is an essential component in providing inexpensive food, a shortage of workers is changing the equation upon which fast-food places have long relied. This can be seen in rising wages, in a growth of incentives, and in the sometimes odd situations that business owners find themselves in.
Too many restaurants, not enough teens to work in them.
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A Fast-Food Problem: Where Have All the Teenagers Gone?
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Hey, wait a minute!! I want a divorce!! ... you're not Clint Eastwood!!
(Score: 5, Insightful) by canopic jug on Thursday July 19 2018, @03:07PM (36 children)
The hours put in at such a shop minus the fuel and maintenance for a vehicle mean you won't come out ahead. If the restaurants invested even a pittance into the hourly wages instead of into executive bonuses or executive stock buybacks, you'd have a lot of people to choose from for those jobs. Further, many of those places are unpleasant to work at. It's not the tasks that are unpleasant but the managerial style and hierachies which are more about ballbusting than getting the job done. In short they set out to make the job suck as much as possible, perhaps as extra punishement for it being so low pay. Fix either or both and there will be competition to get into those jobs.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 4, Insightful) by PiMuNu on Thursday July 19 2018, @03:15PM (17 children)
> minus the fuel and maintenance for a vehicle
... or build infrastructure in such a way that you can *walk* places.
(Score: 5, Interesting) by canopic jug on Thursday July 19 2018, @03:22PM
... or build infrastructure in such a way that you can *walk* places.
Good point but that would make sense only in countries where urban planning is done or even allowed. TFA is from The New York Times which is in a country with neither. However, in NYC itself there is somewhat of an infrastructure, at least compared to most of the rest of the country. But that brings up the idea of subsidization. Currently, in effect, the slave wages are subsidized [theatlantic.com] with the financial benefits going to a few high up in a few corporations. If infrastructure, such as mass transit were subsisdized instead, the benefits would be much wider reaching.
Money is not free speech. Elections should not be auctions.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by suburbanitemediocrity on Thursday July 19 2018, @03:36PM (13 children)
Where can't you walk to places?
(Score: 4, Informative) by Snow on Thursday July 19 2018, @04:35PM (7 children)
Pretty much anywhere in Canada or the USA that isn't downtown.
My first job I would have to walk to Burger King sometimes when the buses didn't work out. It would take 30 mins if I hopped a 8' concrete sound barrier (there was a power box beside it I could climb on) and then ran across a 6 lane freeway. Otherwise it would take closer to 50 mins. And that was considered close!
(Score: 4, Informative) by Sulla on Thursday July 19 2018, @04:47PM (1 child)
Sulla's AC friend worked at a McDonalds that required him to walk 1.5 hours each way, and this was in Alaska, and this was in the winter. Currently he works at a job paying much better but still has the same walk. And its not like millennials are unwilling to use non-car transport, where I currently live most of them bike or take the bus because they don't want to own a car. The issue is more of a refusal to work at a fast food place or any place making less than 15/hour because student loans are too high to make it affordable. Hell, even if they did take one of those jobs it is unlikely they will get more than 25 hours a week because 30 is now full time and if you work more than 25 you might accidentally go over 30, so you need to juggle two part time jobs and hope you can negotiate schedules between them just to get full time employment.
I got a degree in Accounting from a University that was about average for instate universities, and my student loan payments are 1k/month. So even with 40 hours and 15/hour you gross 2,400/month and about 2k/month after taxes (under old tax plan). So now you have 1k/month after student loans because you are stuck making 15/hour because you can't find a job because they all want several years of infield experience and you couldn't afford unpaid internships. Average rent in the US in 2016 was 1050/month. I think when a lot of the millennials realize this breakdown they just give up.
What percentage of your monthly income was rent when you first started out? What percent of your income was student loans when you graduated college?
Ceterum censeo Sinae esse delendam
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @04:24AM
I lived at home until 22 and only left after a call was made from my house to my girlfriends about us having sex
bye
(Score: 2) by Gaaark on Thursday July 19 2018, @06:54PM
You forgot the good ol' Canadian saying "And it was uphill both ways in a snow storm!"
:)
--- Please remind me if I haven't been civil to you: I'm channeling MDC. ---Gaaark 2.0 ---
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Thursday July 19 2018, @07:56PM (3 children)
I walked 6 miles to my first job as a courtesy clerk at a grocery for $190/wk (inflation adjusted), even when it was 112F out. A lot of kids did.
https://weather.com/weather/today/l/85042:4:US [weather.com]
(Score: 2) by Snow on Thursday July 19 2018, @08:11PM (2 children)
I miss courtesy clerks. They used to bag your groceries up and put it on a special cart thing and load all that into your car.
Now I have to carry my own groceries.
(Score: 2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @08:29PM
Uphill in the Snow both ways?
Wait, this has possibly undesired connotations
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @03:53AM
There is a supermarket called Publix which does that, more or less. The cart is ordinary.
I get in the checkout line. I put my own groceries on a conveyor belt, though I'm sure I'd get help if I asked. An employee runs my groceries over a scanner/scale, passing them to a second employee who places them into bags. Bags are free, and they ask if I want paper or plastic. That second employee then loads the bags back into the cart. Once checkout is done, the second employee offers to go out to my car with me. If I accept, they will push the cart and then load the groceries into my vehicle. They then take the cart back in.
Publix is the dominant supermarket chain in many areas, particularly in Florida.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday July 19 2018, @04:38PM
How much time do you have, and what odds would you accept of not getting there ?
Many suburbs do not have sidewalks along roads where people go 65+. Granted, it's true in Europe too. But people there do expect to regularly have to dodge a pedestrian/cyclist.
(Score: 4, Informative) by pendorbound on Thursday July 19 2018, @04:48PM (2 children)
Most of the US. There are lots of places where apartments with rent you can afford are far enough from the places you can work that you wouldn't be able to walk to work, work your shift, and walk back home in the course of day.
Assuming you'll work an 8 hour shift (good luck finding that...), and would like to have 8 hours of sleep, personal time, etc, you've got a max 4 hour each way commute. Assuming a walking pace of 4 MPH, that means a maximum of 16 miles each way.
The nearest Mc Donalds to me is 13.2 miles. If the route were flat, you'd have almost two hours per day of free time left. Unfortunately it's pretty hilly. Google estimates 8 hours, 12 minutes round trip via Shoe Leather Express. Guess you'll have to get up a little earlier. Sure you could live closer, but move in towards the city, and your rent skyrockets. I'm not sure if there's a sweet spot on that closer in. I expect the closest you can live still leaves you sweaty and disgusting when you get to work (it's been in the 90's during the day most of this month).
There's no bus route between those places. Lyft would cost you about $18 round-trip. That's about 2 hours minimum wage, assuming you throw the driver a $1 tip each way. So you're paying 25% of your gross pre-tax for transportation. And that's assuming you're not getting screwed over with 4-hour shifts.
To survive in the vast majority of the US, access to a reliable car is a necessity.
(Score: 2) by Phoenix666 on Thursday July 19 2018, @04:56PM (1 child)
E-bikes might be a solution. In NYC Latinos ride them everywhere. The city is hillier than most people realize. Also, they probably don't have much money to spend on transportation, so the economics of it must work out. The speeds on them are 20-30mph, so that's as fast as cars are supposed to go on local roads.
In short, I think people could use that or other means to get to those jobs, if they wanted to.
Washington DC delenda est.
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @05:45PM
There you go assuming someone did the math. Just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean there not all losing money on it. I'm not saying they are, but people in general are bad at long term costs, maintenance, and taking account of everything involved. After all people still take loans out to buy new cars to drive into the ground for Uber.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @10:26PM
It depends on where you live.
Where I lived last year? Sidewalks? Haha get real those cost money. Where I grew up? They were everywhere. Where I live now? It is about 80% done in. It just depends on where you live.
(Score: 2) by mcgrew on Thursday July 19 2018, @06:30PM (1 child)
I like walking, but when it's damned hot or freezing cold I'll be in my heated and cooled car, But, I really don't understand the article, is Springfield different than most places? Half the staff at the Walgreen's down the street are minors and have to make a "service 21" call when I'm buying beer. At McDonald's it's three quarters teens and the rest old women.
mcgrewbooks.com mcgrew.info nooze.org
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @07:41PM
18 and up can sell alcohol in my state, but fast-food places are almost entirely staffed by 20-somethings and older. There are no good jobs to be had so kids have to compete with adults for the shitty ones. 12/hr and full time is considered a "good job". EBT and medicare are almost universal for apartment-dwellers.
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Thursday July 19 2018, @03:31PM (12 children)
How is this different from the past? On my summer jobs, I would work the entire summer (@$84/week) to be able to buy a commodore 64 or a bicycle.
I don't know what kids even spend their money on these days as the things that I would have spent money on are nearly free or free on CL.
(Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @05:36PM (5 children)
1. Housing
2. Student loans
Glad I could help!
(Score: 2) by HiThere on Thursday July 19 2018, @05:58PM
Depends on the age bracket. The GP was clearly thinking of high school, or possibly younger. You seem to be thinking college. But college isn't exactly "teenagers", though some of the freshmen or sophomores are (barely) within the right decade.
OTOH, for cars to even be an option you generally need to be older than 14. (I'm sure that varies by state, but that's the right general age.)
That said, most of the roads around here I don't consider safe for bicyclists, though I'm in a minority, but if you're a teenager a bicycle is probably the vehicle of choice, if there's a safe place to park it.
Javascript is what you use to allow unknown third parties to run software you have no idea about on your computer.
(Score: 2) by suburbanitemediocrity on Thursday July 19 2018, @07:48PM (3 children)
At age 16? My parent's didn't kick me out until I was 18.
(Score: 1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @08:28PM (1 child)
18?! Are you some kind of lazy pampered millennial incel?! My parents kicked me out of home when I was 5, and I had to walk uphill to the coal mine both ways in 12 feet of snow in the summer!
(Score: 3, Touché) by DECbot on Friday July 20 2018, @12:07AM
Yeah, but at what age did you leave South America and came to the US?
cats~$ sudo chown -R us /home/base
(Score: 2) by Webweasel on Friday July 20 2018, @08:33AM
In the UK, the kid can choose to leave at 16 but only into the army. Your not allowed to kick them out until 18 as they have to stay in education until 18.
Priyom.org Number stations, Russian Military radio. "You are a bad, bad man. Do you have any other virtues?"-Runaway1956
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @10:21PM (5 children)
They spend their money on tattoos and gender reassignment surgery.
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Kell on Friday July 20 2018, @12:04AM (4 children)
No fooling - GRS ain't cheap. You can easily drop $40k on that, depending on where you go. Still beats suicide imho.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 0, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @07:14AM (1 child)
Suicide cones later, after you realize your gender wasn't the real problem.
(Score: 2) by Kell on Friday July 20 2018, @08:32AM
What would you posit the real problem to be?
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2) by FatPhil on Friday July 20 2018, @09:30AM (1 child)
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; the smallest discuss themselves
(Score: 3, Insightful) by Kell on Friday July 20 2018, @10:18AM
I have heard this, yes. It seems consistent with the model that people seeking surgery would be the most extreme cases; just because you've gotten treatment, doesn't mean your suffering has stopped. I expect by the time a trans person has gotten so far as to get the surgery they've suffered a lot. I had a ring-side seat for it when a my best friend in college got it done. Fascinating stuff, but not something I'd recommend to anyone who wasn't 100% sure they needed it.
Scientists ask questions. Engineers solve problems.
(Score: 2, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 19 2018, @04:29PM (3 children)
The teen gets "free" transportation from a parent. The cost of that is an investment in the teen's future, much like college is. The goal here is to get references and something to solve the problem of an empty resume. It breaks even, in exactly the same way as college does.
There are teens doing it for a wage of $0.00 per hour, which is somehow acceptable ("volunteer work") but $0.01 per hour is somehow not acceptable. We even allow negative wages ("vocational training program") but we don't allow wages within a small range just above zero.
My teen got a job. He reports that his coworkers, not counting management of course, can be classified into two groups. One group is teens from mid-upper to wealthy families. The other is fucked up adults who commute in from poor areas. It's easy to explain the lack of adults who have their shit together, but what about the lack of poor teens? I think they don't have parents pushing them hard to take career steps. I think the poor teens devote time to TV, the internet, and game players. Perhaps they do something more harmful. In any case, the poor teens are not out there working. Teens like mine, who don't really even need the money, are the only ones working.
(Score: 5, Insightful) by DeathMonkey on Thursday July 19 2018, @05:00PM
The teen gets "free" transportation from a parent. The cost of that is an investment in the teen's future, much like college is. The goal here is to get references and something to solve the problem of an empty resume. It breaks even, in exactly the same way as college does.
For the well to do parents with enough free time to taxi their kids around all day... For everyone else: Fuck you, got mine!
(Score: 4, Insightful) by Marand on Friday July 20 2018, @02:34AM
Maybe not intentional, but all your examples conveniently lay the blame on them in a "it's their own fault, they're doing it wrong" sort of way. Looking at the various other threads in this discussion about commute times and transportation costs, it seems like another possibility is that maybe the poor kids' families sometimes simply can't manage it. Having the kid bring in some extra income sounds like a win for a cash-strapped family, but it might cost them money they can't afford to lose due to time spent transporting the kid to work. Employers in low-end jobs really like jerking around the employees' hours to keep them out of full-time classification, which leads to people trying to juggle two or even three part-time jobs to make the necessary income to live. How do you ferry around your teen at the whims of another jackass employer's scheduling in that situation? The easy answer would be "just get another vehicle" but that adds even more costs.
Another possibility is some of those poor families are probably trying to keep their kids out of the workforce so they can spend more time studying, hoping to give the kids better opportunities than their parents had. I'm sure there's just as much indifference and other negative reasons too, because families are as different as the people that make them, but only listing negatives like you did makes it sound like you're accusing "the poors" of being poor of their own choice and deliberately (or perhaps just ignorantly) keeping their offspring unsuccessful as well. Again, that was probably not your intent, but the way you worded it carried a hint of self-assured arrogance that your parenting choices are superior, with no consideration of the different situations other parents might be in and how that might influence their decisions. Poor or not, I think most parents want their children to succeed and try to help with that in whatever ways they think they can.
Going off on a tangent a bit, I've seen similar short-sightedness in discussions about cost of living, especially with regard to food costs. Something that always comes up is a suggestion to buy bulk items to save money; it seems like a no-brainer option since reduced packaging costs usually means you get more of what you want for less money. So, every time it comes up, someone inevitably laments how the poor people don't do this obvious, smart thing, and how they're making it worse for themselves, like they're making a conscious decision to lower their quality of life. The problem is they're taking for granted the advantages they already have that make this no-brainer option so easy to take. Notably, buying bulk is cheaper long-term, but requires a larger up-front investment — bulk items are cheaper per-item but cost more up-front, plus stores that specialise in bulk items like Costco have membership fees — that just doesn't exist for someone that's barely making enough money to survive. You have to eat but can't afford the bulk item, so you waste money buying smaller portions, which makes it harder to save enough to buy bulk, continuing the cycle.
Anyway, not trying to argue or anything, just wanted to provide a counter to the vaguely negative "they're doing this to themselves" tone of your job market lamentation. Like I said, I don't think you were trying to be that way with what you wrote, but it's easy for assumptions to creep in and taint attempts at considering other perspectives.
(Score: 2) by Reziac on Friday July 20 2018, @01:40PM
Bingo. People replying here are thinking like upperclass, not like working class. I see lots and lots of idle teens who are economically lower-class, and largely hanging around the very fast food joints that are begging for employees . Why are these teens not out there hustling for jobs that clearly are right underfoot? Transportation obviously is not the issue; they're already on the spot.
A: between mama's basement and mama's welfare payments, they don't need to, and besides they can make more money growing and selling pot.
And most of the middle-class kids now have fantasies about getting rich after they get their PhD in Useless Studies (which will be paid for by student loans, not by savings from summer jobs), and meanwhile wouldn't be caught dead doing blue-collar grunt work, nor would their parents allow such ignominious labor.
In short, way too many teens now think taking a starter job is beneath them, or are into the drug economy and aren't reliable enough anyway. Hell, half the time these kids can't show up for school; what makes you think they'd show up any more often as an employee?
And there is no Alkibiades to come back and save us from ourselves.
(Score: 3, Touché) by JoeMerchant on Thursday July 19 2018, @07:52PM
Yeah, but where did Wendy's 0.99 value meal go? I want my cheap burgers and fries, dammit! Get those underprivileged 12 year olds into the workforce!
🌻🌻 [google.com]