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from the but-they-do-work-to-raise-ticket-income dept.
Red-light cameras don't reduce the number of traffic accidents or injuries at intersections where the devices are installed, according a new analysis by Case Western Reserve University.
Touted by supporters as a way increase public safety by ticketing drivers who continue through red lights, the cameras actually shift traffic patterns: More drivers tend to brake harder and more abruptly, increasing fender-benders and other so-called "non-angle" collisions.
"Once drivers knew about the cameras, they appeared to accept a higher accident risk from slamming on their brakes at yellow lights to avoid an expensive traffic citation—thereby decreasing safety for themselves and other drivers," said Justin Gallagher, an assistant professor of economics at Weatherhead School of Management at Case Western Reserve.
Accidents didn't decrease, only shift.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @09:13AM (12 children)
What is a "permissive yellow" standard?
(Score: 1, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @01:33PM (4 children)
Permissive yellow means if you enter the intersection before the light turns read you are fine. Restrictive yellow means you must leave the intersection before the light turns red.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday July 20 2018, @03:08PM (3 children)
As a stable genius I recognize that word rhymes with either reed or red.
To transfer files: right-click on file, pick Copy. Unplug mouse, plug mouse into other computer. Right-click, paste.
(Score: 2) by kazzie on Friday July 20 2018, @03:30PM (2 children)
Are you a talking horse?
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @05:07PM
*smacks forehead* I can't believe I've misunderstood Trump's use of this term for so long! 'stable genius' obviously refers to the quantity of verbal horse shit that one can spew from ones mouth/twitter feed. It's a brilliant enough term that it could only come from a... wait for it...
stable genius.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @10:34PM
Neigh.
(Score: 3, Informative) by AthanasiusKircher on Friday July 20 2018, @01:37PM (6 children)
"Permissive yellow" means you are still allowed to enter the intersection if the light is yellow. And thus you are allowed to be in the intersection if the light is red; you are just required to exit as soon as possible.
There are a minority of states with a "restrictive yellow" standard, which means theoretically that you should NOT enter the intersection when the light is yellow, and that you will be ticketed if you are still in the intersection when the light turns red, even if you entered when the light was yellow.
I believe I read some evidence a few years back that restrictive yellow does no good and in fact causes similar accidents to those described in TFA, because you can't stop suddenly when the light turns yellow to avoid entering the intersection. (And if you do, you have a high chance of being rear-ended.) And there's no consistent way to predice the duration of yellow, so you can very easily end up in the intersection by accident when the light turns red.
The solution is either a permissive yellow or a flashing green to give warning that the light is about to change. Also, having a brief "all red" moment (generally only a second or two) when all directions have a red light allows the intersection to clear and also helps safety.
(Score: 2) by DannyB on Friday July 20 2018, @03:10PM (2 children)
Permissive Yellow seems much more better.
Even if you aren't able to leave the intersection while it is still yellow, the opposing traffic, even with a green light, still has to accelerate before a collision can occur. An the opposing traffic can already see you in their direct path before they accelerate.
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(Score: 1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 20 2018, @07:23PM (1 child)
The safe (and correct) way to do it is to have all lights red for 2 seconds.
This is known to reduce accidents substantially.
(Score: 2) by toddestan on Friday July 20 2018, @10:53PM
Around here, people have just adjusted to that and consider it okay to go through a red light if it has "just turned red". Of course, you risk a ticket doing so, but we don't have red light cameras and the chances of getting pulled over are pretty low so most people do it. Since people have a different idea of what "just turned red" means, it's always a guessing game of whether the guy behind you is going to stop or is anticipate that you might stop. And of course the hilarity that ensues for the occasional traffic light that doesn't implement the all-red delay.
I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it might be better left to the few intersections that really need it than just applied across the board everywhere.
(Score: 2) by darkfeline on Friday July 20 2018, @07:58PM (2 children)
Restrictive yellow doesn't even make sense. What's the point of having a separate yellow and red if they mean the same thing? The entire point of yellow is to provide a warning to allow cars to slow down and stop (and cars which are unable to do so safely must logically continue through the intersection).
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(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday July 21 2018, @04:43AM
A "permissive yellow" at least gives a motorist behind a bus a fighting chance of getting out of the intersection should some friggen city planner place the bus stop in such a manner that the bus stops just as it clears the intersection, leaving whatever is behind it to deal with the blockage.
( Yes, I know what I typed sounds ridiculous! But I experienced this very thing in Anaheim, California. Once I saw the bus had stopped, and I would have nowhere to go but either wait in the middle of the intersection until the bus cleared, or take my chances and dart into the lane to the left, hoping and praying someone already going would not cream me during the lane change, or make an immediate turn right going somewhere I did not want to go. I ended up turning right just to get the hell outta there. Damn near nailed a pedestrian while I was at it as I had failed to do due reconnaisance of the situation before acting. The light had already turned yellow, and there wasn't much I could do before I was really gonna be in everyone's way.)
Stuff like that convinces me that one does not have to have a brain to be a city planner. Only thing they need is authority.
I was in an unfamiliar area, I did not know the bus was going to stop just as it cleared the intersection. I know now and avoid that area like the plague, and make sure to use the leftmost lanes in the area, even though I am driving a big slow van. So I can avoid the bus. Which stops in the damndest places.
Oh, if you are in California, Here's where the cameras are. [2fixyourtrafficticket.com]
(Score: 2) by AthanasiusKircher on Saturday July 21 2018, @03:44PM
Yes, I perhaps overstated the "restrictive yellow" idea. I meant to qualify that it means you shouldn't enter the intersection if yellow when feasible. For example, if you're sitting and waiting to make a left-hand turn but aren't yet in the intersection, typical behavior is for a stream of cars to go through while the light is yellow after opposing traffic stops. In that case, you're already stopped, so there's no safety issue that causes you to have to go into the intersection. With "restrictive yellow" in some states, you could be ticketed for doing so.
Even when you're traveling fast, the problem is that different people have different views on whether it's feasible to stop, so you tend to get people slamming on the brakes, and rear-end collisions occur.
The greater constraint is the ticketing once the light turns red, which means you have to guess how long the yellow might be and whether you risk going through the intersection before red (potentially speeding up to do so), or whether you slam on your brakes. Either way, it causes more accidents.