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French schoolchildren will have to leave their smartphones switched off or at home as the new academic year begins in September, after lawmakers voted for a ban on Monday.
The ban on smartphones, tablets and other connected devices, which will apply to pupils up to the age of 14-15, fulfils[sic] a campaign promise by centrist President Emmanuel Macron, while being derided as "cosmetic" by the opposition.
MPs of Macron's centrist LREM party and its allies gave final approval to the bill, while lawmakers on the left and right abstained from the vote, calling the law a "publicity stunt" that would change nothing.
Under the new law, schools may make exceptions for "pedagogical use", extra-curricular activities, or for disabled pupils.
Secondary schools for their part can decide individually whether to impose a partial or total ban on connected devices.
(Score: 2) by corey on Thursday August 02 2018, @03:16AM (20 children)
Now hopefully more nations (particularly Australia) will follow suit.
I'm not entirely sure why I think this is a great idea, but I don't see how smartphones in school can be any good for children. Maybe less cyber-bullying? Either way, less screen time is good for their eyes and brains.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 02 2018, @04:51AM (13 children)
In the first case, the administrators discipline them, say by taking away their parking privileges with trespassing and towing next, if the student insists on continuing to break the rules. But in the second case, how does one punish such rule breaking? Either there is no punishment (and it reverts to the schools doing what they were going to do anyway - I gather the French law is just an example of that) and the law is merely theater, or there is a punishment and we have the spectacle of students receiving heavy handed punishments for illegal parking. The State doesn't make a good school principal and it is foolish to use its power to enforce minor school rules and such.
Finally, consider this quote [telegraph.co.uk]:
Why are students going to respect a bunch of legislative busy bodies and their laws when they do stupid stuff like this? At least, it's educational. But what is the lesson!?
(Score: 3, Informative) by bob_super on Thursday August 02 2018, @06:06AM (10 children)
The lesson is "you can't argue with me, because I have the law on my side, so shut the fuck up you little immature prick, and you'll get your phone back when your parents go ask the principal for it. If they're more polite than you, maybe there won't be a fine"
You would not believe the abuse some teachers and principals get, from students and/or their parents, when they dare confiscate the sacrosanct digital pacifier. Especially women niddle-school teachers in shitty neighbourhoods.
(Score: 2) by Dr Spin on Thursday August 02 2018, @08:21AM
The lesson not here is "Paris, 1968".
those that are condemned by history ...
Warning: Opening your mouth may invalidate your brain!
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 02 2018, @11:54AM (8 children)
Harassment, threats, etc are already illegal. And we already can see how this power could be abused in your very first line.
Think about it.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Thursday August 02 2018, @04:30PM (7 children)
> > you can't argue with me, because I have the law on my side
> Think about it.
Don't see your point. You can't argue with a cop that you should get away with $crime, just because That's Not Fair and Just This Time and Who Said That I Can't and ...
(Most) French teachers and headmasters are not gonna go file paperwork every five minutes because they can, and all but a few kids already keep their phones hidden during class. The law is there to help with extreme cases (because all 14 yr-olds are stupid), and for political grandstanding reasons. It's not a slippery slope to Fascist Oppression.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 03 2018, @03:04AM (6 children)
But maybe it's a mistake on my part to argue with people who don't get that a matter, which is simply settled by the teacher taking the phone away, doesn't require the French government to get involved.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday August 03 2018, @06:30AM (5 children)
My kids, in the US, are in school with a few kids who go to the principal's office multiple times a week, and still don't give a shit and talk back. That's in a pretty nice area.
Expelling doesn't mean anything to someone who knows you have to take them back, so it's vacation until it's time to disturb class again.
Having the ability to scare (or try to) a kid who doesn't care about the principal, by putting him in front of a police officer who is grumpy since he'd rather be the kind of things he became a cop for, is an extra tool that few, maybe none, will ever resort to (neither the principal nor the cop would want to fill the paperwork). But it's an extra tool, giving solid legal ground to the "no phones" school rule.
It's mostly politicians parading. It's most likely barely gonna get used. But there must have been enough cases reported to make them wake up from their naps and pass something that they believe will not be totally turned into a mockery.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 03 2018, @12:20PM (4 children)
I'm sure a few years in jail will cure them of that tendency and the spectacle of the kid being hauled off by police will put fear in the rest. We can't have our citizens questioning authority. OR we could fire this principal and/or teacher and find someone who can figure out how to deal with back-talking kids.
Which can be next school year. The solutions don't have to be permanent. And I have no problem rewarding such students with as much expulsion as they can get until they're old enough to drop out.
Only the petty tyrants would do that. Fortunately, there are plenty of them in US school systems to jail students for equally petty discipline problems.
No, it doesn't have to be. Your faith in politicians is touching.
I'll note here that I'm not speaking in a vacuum. In the US, there are a lot of areas that have made "sexting", the distribution of sexually explicit images of oneself by cell phone text, illegal. Thus, when a school catches students distributing images of boobs, penises, etc, they can throw those students to the mercy of the police and court system. For example [reason.com]:
In other words, a bunch of students took naughty pictures of themselves and now, the force of the law will be selectively applied to the students that the authorities don't like. This French law is just more of that nonsense.
What I find particularly remarkable about this thread is how the people defending the practice of making cell phones illegal in the classroom have done nothing to justify their opinion - neither to explain why the force of law is acceptable for basic discipline issues in the classroom nor how such laws would improve the situation. They just keep insisting that we oughta have a law.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Friday August 03 2018, @04:19PM (3 children)
Would you rather have mutually agreed contracts ?
(grin)
(Score: 1) by khallow on Saturday August 04 2018, @03:08AM (2 children)
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Saturday August 04 2018, @05:51AM (1 child)
The dumb new law applies to 6-16 yr-olds.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Sunday August 05 2018, @10:44PM
Does this particular age bracket need more oppressing? Seems to me the world (and France in particular) is already amply oppressing them. I'm stuck on the original premise. Why exactly do we need a law to do a teacher's job?
(Score: 2) by VLM on Thursday August 02 2018, @01:51PM (1 child)
Yeah... I'll wait and see when that attitude is used to encourage the enforcement of immigration and weed laws. Till then, not much pity for nearly 100% leftist teachers.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 02 2018, @05:03PM
Hey dummy, FRANCE!
Weed laws are enforced, try driving around in Arizona with a big bag of weed and make sure some is being burned and the smoke is going out the window!
Ooooh, you mean federal law?? I guess on THIS point you're 100% a federalist then? Fuck state's rights because... hippies?
Immigration law? Last I checked it is being enforced quite frequently, what exactly do you think is going on?
(Score: 3, Insightful) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday August 02 2018, @07:08AM (5 children)
Yes, please.
It's a good idea because younger kids find them too much of a distraction. It's also a good idea because too many children and older students use them as status symbols.
And I think it's a good idea because phone/tablet operating systems are too geared towards consuming instead of creating. They have as little place in a school as closed source software.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 02 2018, @12:25PM (4 children)
One of the many points of education is to help people think for themselves. Bringing in the power of the state to handle mundane educational issues is ripe for disruption of the educational environment, abuse, and one of the notorious slippery slopes of governance. On that last point, today, it might be cell phones in the classroom, tomorrow it might be legitimate disagreement with the teacher, and the day after, insufficient enthusiasm for the Dear Leader.
OTOH, I can see the utility of such laws in my profession [accounting]. "You can't crumple those reports you send me or put too many staples in it, because I have the law on my side". No longer am I an impotent schmuck just doing my job, but I have a taste of real power! Maybe a $50 fine per extra staple with a visit by local law enforcement to deliver the ticket? That sounds giddily reasonable, don't you think? What could possibly go wrong?
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Thursday August 02 2018, @12:58PM (3 children)
Actually "the power of the teacher and school" is, all too often, insufficient with too many parents.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 03 2018, @03:06AM (2 children)
Even in cases where that is true, the French law will do nothing to change the situation for the better. And why should we do stupid things just because some school systems are incompetently run?
(Score: 2) by fido_dogstoyevsky on Friday August 03 2018, @03:48AM (1 child)
The law probably will change things for the better because the worst offenders know the limits of what schools can do but fear what the police can do.
Not "incompetently run" but unable to police existing laws against assault.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
(Score: 1) by khallow on Friday August 03 2018, @11:46AM
Ridiculous. I think instead it will change it for the worse for precisely that reason. The police have no reason to be involved here. Involving them creates various opportunities for mischief, such as school authorities using the power of the law to bully students and parents they don't like.
First, that is completely irrelevant. Assault is already illegal and schools don't police laws in the first place. The police police. The schools educate. Second, such problems come about because the school in question is poorly run. Sorry, I don't buy that there are huge collections of mean parents out there that force France to pass laws regulating behavior of students (who let us note aren't the parents). Use these occasions of students ignoring rules as signs to replace the school employees enabling the behavior.