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posted by martyb on Tuesday August 21 2018, @10:59AM   Printer-friendly
from the Shall-not-be-infringed dept.

On July 24th, 2018 the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled 2-1 that Hawaiian officials had violated George Young's rights when he was denied a permit to openly carry a loaded gun in public to protect himself. The decision in Young vs Hawaii (PDF warning) holds that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to enable citizens to defend themselves, and that the right to openly carry a firearm in public is implicit in the 2nd Amendment's "right to bear arms". This expands on the Heller vs DC decision, which guaranteed the right to own and keep firearms in the home.

The scope of this decision is currently limited to the 7 States covered by the 9th Circuit. There is little doubt that Hawaii will petition for an en banc review of the ruling and that no matter how that is decided, it is likely to make it to the Supreme Court. The state's only other choice would seem to be compliance with the ruling and allowing the open carry of handguns. For the time being, nothing is going to change, even in Hawaii. The court did not issue an injunction or otherwise impose any requirement for the state to immediately comply with its ruling and state authorities are simply evaluating their options.

One final link to be taken with a grain of salt: a California resident is seeking lawyers who will help file a motion for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) against California Attorney General Becerra restraining him from enforcing California's Open Carry bans (California Penal Code sections 25850, 26350, and 26400). The same article calls out the NRA for not taking action:

In any event, you won't see any of the so-called gun-rights lawyers fighting for Open Carry because they, and the organizations which hire them, such as the NRA, CRPA, SAF, CalGuns.nuts, et., oppose Open Carry. How do we know that? They said so in their Federal court filings and/or in their oral argument before Federal judges.

I find it ironic that a Federal judge seems to be taking a more pro-arms position than the NRA itself.


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  • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday August 21 2018, @01:13PM (18 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Tuesday August 21 2018, @01:13PM (#724147) Journal
    Starting Score:    1  point
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    Total Score:   3  
  • (Score: 1, Troll) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 21 2018, @03:19PM (17 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 21 2018, @03:19PM (#724204) Journal

    I'm not one to praise Snopes extravagently, because it has oft been demonstrated that they have a liberal bias. But, that article is a good read.

    I've often puzzled over this nonsense. A white guy can go almost anywhere, in most states, with or without a weapon. It's unremarkable. A black guy with a gun? People get nervous. Why? Either the black guy with the gun has his shit together, and will act responsibly - or he'll soon be dead. That's why EVERYONE should have a weapon at hand. Then, it's mutual respect. Any asshole can pull a gun, and take a shot at you - but then it's like Gunfight at OK Corral - everyone in sight takes a side and starts firing. Nobody with a wit wants to go there. The witless wonder might do it - once. He won't have the guts to do it again!

    • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @04:21PM (15 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @04:21PM (#724240)

      You're confused. It's not *mutual respect* if everyone has to wear a weapon. That's not how respect, trust, and friendships are built. Too many guns is how school shootings and shit like that happens. Silly americans haven't figured it out yet. I read somewhere that there is a mass shooting every week in america. Is that true?

      • (Score: 5, Insightful) by Runaway1956 on Tuesday August 21 2018, @04:34PM (5 children)

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 21 2018, @04:34PM (#724247) Journal

        has to wear a weapon

        I don't recall requiring you to carry a weapon. I have suggested a few times that all able-bodied, sane, rational, males be required to maintain a weapon - that is, the militia should have weapons at their disposal. All able bodied males between the ages of 18 and 40-something. But, I don't recall requiring that you carry your weapon at all times, when you are in public. Your choice. Lock the damned thing in your bedroom, or your car, or just stow it in your mama's freezer while you're wasting time in her basement.

        Now, I expect the same courtesy, in return. Just don't worry about whether I'm armed. At any given time, chances are that I don't actually have a weapon within reach. That doesn't matter much, though, because I am the weapon. My mind, and my will, and my training are far more formidable than any AR-15.

        You don't worry about me, I won't worry about you. I may or may not be armed, you may or may not be armed, but it shouldn't matter to anyone.

        • (Score: 2) by number11 on Tuesday August 21 2018, @08:20PM (1 child)

          by number11 (1170) Subscriber Badge on Tuesday August 21 2018, @08:20PM (#724350)

          I have suggested a few times that all able-bodied, sane, rational, males be required to maintain a weapon - that is, the militia should have weapons at their disposal. All able bodied males between the ages of 18 and 40-something.

          Why just males? Aren't females victims of assault as well? (The supply of spouse abusers and rapists would dwindle quickly if every woman had a .380 in her purse.)

          The "militia" aspect is of more concern. A militia needs to be organized (or, in the words of the Constitution) "well-regulated". That requires practice and drilling. How about requiring every gun owner to participate in a weekly (or monthly) militia drill, so that we'd have a "militia" instead of a "mob"?

          • (Score: 2) by RandomFactor on Wednesday August 22 2018, @01:50AM

            by RandomFactor (3682) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 22 2018, @01:50AM (#724498) Journal

            "Why just males? Aren't females victims of assault as well? "

            Decades ago there was an advertisement (for the NRA?) about that.

            Best I can recall:

            It showed a woman with scared young children on a dark street with a thug coming after them. She was pulling a gun out of her purse to protect the kids.
            The caption "It's not just a right, it's an obligation"

            Apparently, there was a huge stink from the usual suspects and it wound up being pulled by whatever magazine(s) it was in.

            --
            В «Правде» нет известий, в «Известиях» нет правды
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @11:25PM (2 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @11:25PM (#724455)

          Blech!!! At times like these, this site could really use a rolling eyes emoji. Also, could someone please step forward and justify the "Insightful" upmod?

          That doesn't matter much, though, because I am the weapon. My mind, and my will, and my training are far more formidable than any AR-15.

          Hey, Internet Tough Guy! It's been awhile since we last saw you. We have kind of missed you. So, what's the plan? Are you going to tell us all how you would bravely take down an entire team of terrorists with your bare hands? Are you going to accuse those of us who do not own any firearms of not "manning up" in the defense of our communities? I'm just curious....

          You don't worry about me, I won't worry about you.

          I'm not so much worried as amused. But that could be just me. Whatever.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @01:14AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @01:14AM (#724494)

            It's just you.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @10:42AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @10:42AM (#724602)

            His real name is Ryan. Jack Ryan.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by takyon on Tuesday August 21 2018, @04:35PM (2 children)

        by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Tuesday August 21 2018, @04:35PM (#724249) Journal

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States [wikipedia.org]
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2015_to_present [wikipedia.org]
        http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting [gunviolencearchive.org]

        If you use the "4 people shot, but not necessarily killed" standard, then it is basically daily. But it's not a satisfying definition. A guy murders 4 family members in his home with a gun, is that a mass shooting? By some other standards it might be 1 incident every other month.

        --
        [SIG] 10/28/2017: Soylent Upgrade v14 [soylentnews.org]
        • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @07:06PM (1 child)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @07:06PM (#724312)

          "I have suggested a few times that all able-bodied, sane, rational, males be required to maintain a weapon"
          All two of them?

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @10:53AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @10:53AM (#724608)

            Who's the other one?

      • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Zinho on Tuesday August 21 2018, @08:14PM (5 children)

        by Zinho (759) on Tuesday August 21 2018, @08:14PM (#724347)

        It's not *mutual respect* if everyone has to wear a weapon. That's not how respect, trust, and friendships are built.

        Respect, trust, and friendship can only exist among equals; where there is an unbalance of power they are all replaced by fear. Schoolyard bullies have no need of guns, their stature lets them throw their weight around to get what they want. The popular kids at school don't need guns to ruin your life, they'll do it with a rumor. The rich and politically powerful are happy to buy/write laws denying arms to the poor and powerless, while spending their own/tax money on private security guards and police to protect them.

        Society's focus on keeping the peace promotes an environment where, as long as peaceful appearances are kept, the strong (physically, socially, financially, politically, etc) are free to abuse the weak with no fear of repercussion. Those who promote the view that "an armed society is a polite society" aren't arguing that everyone will magically become nice if we all carried weapons. They're arguing that we need a way to make everyone equal in each others' eyes, and that the threat of lethal force (barbaric as it may be) provides that where society does not.

        I'm going to risk quoting Anne Coulter, as she said something witty once that I kinda agree with:

        "...What the arms-control faithful really want is a world without violence, not a world without weapons. These are the ideological descendants of the authors of the Kellogg-Briand Pact, which purported to outlaw war. But we can't have a world without violence, because the world is half male and testosterone causes homicide. A world with violence -- that is to say, with men -- but without weapons is the worst of all possible worlds for women. As the saying goes, 'God made man and woman; Colonel Colt made them equal'."

        Leaving out the misandry, she's got a point. Women should be armed as a deterrent against rapists. The Black Panthers should be armed as a deterrent against police abuse. Everyone has the right to defend themselves, firearms provide them the ability.

        --
        "Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @11:34PM (3 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 21 2018, @11:34PM (#724460)

          Respect, trust, and friendship can only exist among equals...

          Is that a USA thing? Seriously, you can't respect, trust, or be friends with someone who doesn't make the same amount of money as you? Or doesn't have the same education as you? Or doesn't live like you live? Or doesn't look like you or believe the same sky daddy as you?

          No wonder you think you need to carry a gun all the time. It must be terrifying living in fear constantly. Take a deep breath and remember that different is not bad or evil.

          • (Score: 1) by khallow on Wednesday August 22 2018, @02:18AM

            by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 22 2018, @02:18AM (#724509) Journal

            Is that a USA thing? Seriously, you can't respect, trust, or be friends with someone who doesn't make the same amount of money as you? Or doesn't have the same education as you? Or doesn't live like you live? Or doesn't look like you or believe the same sky daddy as you?

            Even as a rhetorical question, that doesn't have legs. After all, communism happened worldwide because the poor aren't equal to the wealthy, combined with a very hearty disrespect for the wealthy.

          • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Zinho on Wednesday August 22 2018, @02:32AM (1 child)

            by Zinho (759) on Wednesday August 22 2018, @02:32AM (#724513)

            Is that a USA thing? Seriously, you can't respect, trust, or be friends with someone who doesn't make the same amount of money as you? Or doesn't have the same education as you? Or doesn't live like you live? Or doesn't look like you or believe the same sky daddy as you?

            No, it's an unfortunate aspect of the human experience. Here in the US we're struggling to overcome our all-too-recent history of allowing people with light skin arbitrarily kill people with darker skin [1]; other places around the world had their own problems that they're working to overcome in their own ways. It wasn't too long ago that in Europe a member of the upper class/Aristocracy could literally run over a commoner in the street with their horse and carriage without any remorse or even a suggestion of legal consequences. Japanese warriors were once in the habit of testing the sharpness of their sword by slicing unsuspecting peasants in half. In 1994 the Hutu tribe who ruled Rwanda killed between 500,000-1,000,000 members of the Tutsi tribe, for a combination of the reasons you listed. Immigrant workers in the Middle East today are hardly better off than the european peasants I mentioned earlier.

            As another commenter pointed out, even the officer/enlisted split in the military and the boss/employee split in business/industry create barriers to trust, respect, and friendship that are baked into the system intentionally. No matter how much trust, friendship, or respect may exist between a soldier and their commander, if they have sex then in the U.S. Army the commander will be brought up on rape charges because the power imbalance between them makes the soldier unable to meaningfully consent.

            You appear to believe [2] that people are generally decent and will treat each other well just because we're all human. Psychology tells us that tribalism is far too common, and that any us/them divide is sufficient cause for some people to distrust, disrespect, and be generally unfriendly to anyone in the "them" category. Our human rights should not be dependent on others being nice. Since we cannot actually legislate civility nor regulate friendship, we should seek a means for preserving the human rights of everyone.

            Runaway1956 proposed a solution, which you have dismissed as unnecessary. What alternative do you propose?

            [1] Dark-skinned soldiers returning from foreign wars to their homes in the US have been literally told by their neighbors never to wear their uniforms or medals in public, because "we don't hold no truck with negroes getting medals for killing white folk". Our WWII veterans still living bear heartbreaking testimony of this treatment.

            [2] call me out, please, if I'm strawmanning you here

            --
            "Space Exploration is not endless circles in low earth orbit." -Buzz Aldrin
            • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @10:48AM

              by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @10:48AM (#724605)

              It wasn't too long ago that in Europe a member of the upper class/Aristocracy could literally run over a commoner in the street with their horse and carriage without any remorse or even a suggestion of legal consequences.

              That's not quite true. If the horse or carriage was damaged, the peasant's family was quite likely to be sold into 'indentured servitude' to pay for it.

        • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @02:11AM

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 22 2018, @02:11AM (#724506)

          They're arguing that we need a way to make everyone equal in each others' eyes, and that the threat of lethal force (barbaric as it may be) provides that where society does not.

          So gun ownership is a form of socialism. I see that as a positive aspect of firearm ownership.

    • (Score: 2) by jmorris on Wednesday August 22 2018, @03:03AM

      by jmorris (4844) on Wednesday August 22 2018, @03:03AM (#724525)

      You are stuck in a single moment in time, which happens to be when we are living in Clown World.

      A black guy with a gun? People get nervous.

      Dr. Thomas Sowell tells a story of when he was a child in New York City and he would carry a rifle home from school on the subway. That it was an utterly unremarkable thing at the time. A black teen on a New York subway with a rifle (in a case) and schoolbooks. And nobody cared. Now wrap your mind around the other part of that story, a black teen carrying a rifle into school, shooting it and it also being an utterly normal part of the school day.

      That of course is not the world we now live in. However we could have that world back in a generation if we could find the courage to give a few Communists a quiet helicopter ride.