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Submitted via IRC for SoyCow4408
Buried on page 25 of the 2019 budget proposal for the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), under the heading "Fundamental Measurement, Quantum Science, and Measurement Dissemination", there's a short entry that has caused plenty of debate and even a fair deal of anger among those in the amateur radio scene:
NIST will discontinue the dissemination of the U.S. time and frequency via the NIST radio stations in Hawaii and Ft. Collins, CO. These radio stations transmit signals that are used to synchronize consumer electronic products like wall clocks, clock radios, and wristwatches, and may be used in other applications like appliances, cameras, and irrigation controllers.
The NIST stations in Hawaii and Colorado are the home of WWV, WWVH, and WWVB. The oldest of these stations, WWV, has been broadcasting in some form or another since 1920; making it the longest continually operating radio station in the United States. Yet in order to save approximately $6.3 million, these time and frequency standard stations are potentially on the chopping block.
Source: https://hackaday.com/2018/08/20/what-will-you-do-if-wwvb-goes-silent/
(Score: 3, Insightful) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 27 2018, @11:28AM (10 children)
Utterly fail to notice? I have absolutely nothing that uses any of the above stations for time adjustment and never have.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @11:50AM (4 children)
Look a little deeper, oh powerful and self-satisfied raptor.
For example, here is one list of users,
https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwv/manufacturers-time-and-frequency-receivers [nist.gov]
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 27 2018, @12:30PM (3 children)
Yep, but I'd never had anything whatsoever that self-adjusted its time until things started doing it over ntp.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Monday August 27 2018, @10:09PM (2 children)
We have one. The main clock in the living room.
My wife doesn't realise that it's not actually receiving correctly, and I adjusted it to three minutes ahead, to reduce tardiness.
I'm less worried about the end of WWVB, than about her paying attention to the discrepancy with the time on her phone.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 28 2018, @02:19AM (1 child)
> My wife doesn't realise that it's not actually receiving correctly, and I adjusted it to three minutes ahead,
From experience, I don't think the deception of your wife is necessary to generate the desired result (less tardiness).
At college a wall clock I used frequently (in a common room area) had a sign under it "10 minutes fast" and it was set as described. But even knowing that it was advanced, looking at it (too lazy to make the mental subtraction?) and seeing that I was about to be late was enough to get me moving. And then the extra 10 minutes to walk across campus was handy...
My suggestion is to come clean and then go for a bigger offset, 5 or even 10 minutes.
(Score: 2) by bob_super on Tuesday August 28 2018, @06:14AM
She sets the kitchen clock 11 minutes ahead, and her car clock 12 minutes ahead ... yet is still late.
*sobs*
(Score: 3, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @03:25PM
You might not, but many other people do. I did a count just now and I have three in my home that update based on WWVB. It's an easy and useful way to have a very accurate clock.
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jmorris on Monday August 27 2018, @05:15PM (3 children)
Luck you. But if you want a wall clock that keeps accurate time there really isn't another option unless you got to design the place and arrange for an outlet behind the clock. Anything that you can stick a AA battery in and be good is going to either sync to WWVB or be wildly inaccurate.
What other options exist? GPS, even a reduced function version that doesn't attempt calculating position, will consume a lot more power and be unusable in most commercial settings.
NTP might be possible though, now that I ponder it a bit. Do it like the Amazon Dash buttons, super reduced functionality. Put one button on it to engage WPS to obtain the WiFi signal, it does DHCP and if it gets an NTP server that way it uses it, otherwise a built in list of defaults out on the Internet. Wake up daily just long enough to get the time and sleep, as it disciplines its clock wake up less and less often. Upgrade to a TCXO (Temp COMPENSATED Crystal Osc in this case instead of Temp Controlled. Ovens and batteries don't mix.) for the internal clock to make it easier to keep accurate. If the DS3232 can run on a coin cell, AA power is also an option. Still probably taking about a pair of AA batteries and a hell of lot more electronics in a "dumb" wall clock.
Another option that might be viable. Can your receive and decode a cell tower without a SIM card enough to at least extract the cell tower ID and time? Since any phone must be able to call 911 even without service, I'd guess yes. So again, wake up daily just long enough to learn time. Not a solution for remote hunting cabins, but would work most places.
(Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 27 2018, @07:09PM (2 children)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_clock [wikipedia.org]
(Score: 3, Interesting) by jmorris on Monday August 27 2018, @07:31PM (1 child)
Like I said, wildly inaccurate. Expecting an off the shelf consumer grade clock to maintain minute per month accuracy is overly optimistic. Being more accurate than most mechanical clocks is a low bar and a lot of the crap on the shelves barely clear it.
(Score: 2) by The Mighty Buzzard on Monday August 27 2018, @08:57PM
Right but I don't care about a wall clock losing/gaining a minute per month. To the nearest quarter hour is granular enough for most things and for those it's not there's my phone or any of the other Internet connected devices I own.
My rights don't end where your fear begins.