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posted by martyb on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:28AM   Printer-friendly
from the Gun-manipulation dept.

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent

This spring the U.S. Education Department reported that in the 2015-2016 school year, "nearly 240 schools ... reported at least 1 incident involving a school-related shooting." The number is far higher than most other estimates.

But NPR reached out to every one of those schools repeatedly over the course of three months and found that more than two-thirds of these reported incidents never happened. Child Trends, a nonpartisan nonprofit research organization, assisted NPR in analyzing data from the government's Civil Rights Data Collection.

We were able to confirm just 11 reported incidents, either directly with schools or through media reports.

In 161 cases, schools or districts attested that no incident took place or couldn't confirm one. In at least four cases, we found, something did happen, but it didn't meet the government's parameters for a shooting. About a quarter of schools didn't respond to our inquiries.

More details in article.


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  • (Score: 5, Informative) by takyon on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:36AM (28 children)

    by takyon (881) <reversethis-{gro ... s} {ta} {noykat}> on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:36AM (#727617) Journal

    I was going to say that maybe the schools deny the incidents because they don't want the bad press. Then I actually read the article:

    "I think someone pushed the wrong button"

    The Civil Rights Data Collection for 2018 required every public school — more than 96,000 — to answer questions on a wide range of issues.

    It asked what sounded like a simple question: In the 2015-2016 school year, "Has there been at least one incident at your school that involved a shooting (regardless of whether anyone was hurt)?" The answer — "nearly 240 schools (0.2 percent of all schools)" — was published this spring.

    The government's definition included any discharge of a weapon at school-sponsored events or on school buses. Even so, that would be a rate of shootings, and a level of violence, much higher than anyone else had ever found.

    So a lot of fat fingering or confusion over the questionnaire. And that results in a rate of just 1 in every 500 schools. That doesn't seem so bad given the broad definition.

    And the article goes on to say that some confused "possession" (another potentially interesting stat) with "discharge". Whoops.

    Kids are more likely to bring their Juul to class.

    --
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  • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:51AM (5 children)

    by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:51AM (#727628) Journal

    So, the question was written by a hoplophobe? "OMG, have you actually ever SEEN A WEAPON?!?! How TERRIBLE!"

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:47AM (4 children)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:47AM (#727645)

      No, at that level things are done for a political purpose. Standardized forms are easy ways to program humanity in a way. Real things are done citing these stats as a reason.

      Imagine a physics test where you get to set the parameters of reality. That is what these questionnaires do, frame reality in a certain way.

      Wanna hear a fucked up tangent? A while back I peaked through my local state standards that seemed quite rigorous and detailed, but in physics there was no longer a single mention of rotation dynamics. Wheels rolling, things spinning, nothing.

      But hey you're degenerating fast and shit posting way more than usual. I guess in this case it is actually a whataboutism mixed with fake news to insulate "your side". Now now, no need to complain that you don't have "a side" or whatever. You are a special unique individual gifted with a particular life experience that gives you a rich backdrop to your personal opinions.

      • (Score: 1, Touché) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @06:22AM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @06:22AM (#727698)

        Imagine a physics test where you get to set the parameters of reality.

        Oh, like a mathematics or engineering test?

        • (Score: 3, Funny) by MostCynical on Wednesday August 29 2018, @07:10AM

          by MostCynical (2589) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @07:10AM (#727709) Journal

          Hey, leave infinite planes and spherical cows alone!

          --
          "I guess once you start doubting, there's no end to it." -Batou, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
      • (Score: 2) by Runaway1956 on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:49PM

        by Runaway1956 (2926) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 29 2018, @01:49PM (#727818) Journal

        Yeah, well, I'm glad you recognize that. But, sucking up will get you nowhere. I won't even get you modded up, 'cause you're AC.

      • (Score: 3, Informative) by termigator on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:39PM

        by termigator (4271) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:39PM (#727891)

        Imagine a physics test where you get to set the parameters of reality.

        This is always the case in Trumpverse.

  • (Score: 2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:01AM (4 children)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:01AM (#727632)

    So the question was written to back up Betsy DeVos and her insane concept of arming teachers with federal education funds?

    • (Score: 3, Insightful) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:36AM (2 children)

      by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:36AM (#727641) Journal

      And/or to justify taking everyone's guns away. Everyone's agenda is served.

      This kind of thing fuels anti-government paranoia. This kind of thing justifies it. This kind of thing defeats reasonable measures for gun control.

      --
      Washington DC delenda est.
      • (Score: 4, Informative) by Joe Desertrat on Wednesday August 29 2018, @10:24AM (1 child)

        by Joe Desertrat (2454) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @10:24AM (#727741)

        And/or to justify taking everyone's guns away. Everyone's agenda is served.

        More likely it is to get increased funding for things like "school resource officers", which means a big chunk of cash to hand out as contracts to cronies to provide security for schools. In Florida for instance, they struggle to get more money for basic school supplies, but they now require every school to have "trained" armed guards.

        • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by ChrisMaple on Thursday August 30 2018, @03:01AM

          by ChrisMaple (6964) on Thursday August 30 2018, @03:01AM (#728137)

          "They struggle to get more money for basic school supplies"... This is bunk. Just what are school supplies that the school is expected to provide? Chalk, books, paper. Maybe finger paint for art classes, and other such trivia. Everything else isn't considered supplies because stuff like chalkboards and desks and school buildings are expected to last year after year. School supplies are a drop in the bucket compared to teacher salaries. Superintendents are vastly overpaid.

    • (Score: 2) by hendrikboom on Thursday August 30 2018, @12:14AM

      by hendrikboom (1125) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 30 2018, @12:14AM (#728072) Homepage Journal

      Imagine! Arming teachers with funds! Maybe they'd be able to afford to teach if we did that!

  • (Score: 3, Interesting) by Phoenix666 on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:41AM (16 children)

    by Phoenix666 (552) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:41AM (#727643) Journal

    Good survey design: it matters.

    Even one school shooting is too much. It is an obscenity in a society on the verge of a nervous breakdown. But sloppy work like this becomes the basis for policy all too quickly and that can create blowback nobody wants.

    --
    Washington DC delenda est.
    • (Score: 4, Insightful) by captain normal on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:57AM (10 children)

      by captain normal (2205) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:57AM (#727651)

      Well as the AC says above, do you expect any less from Betsy DeVos?

      --
      When life isn't going right, go left.
      • (Score: -1, Flamebait) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @03:46AM (9 children)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @03:46AM (#727667)

        Your dislike of her is not logical. She is doing a great job. It is really hard to see why you'd hate her unless you are part of the problem.

        Do you hate her simply because she was appointed by Trump? This is unfair. (and also Trump is wonderful)

        Do you hate her because she is rich? This is jealousy. Not that you'd care, but that is quite the sin. Your hate is harmful to society.

        Do you hate her because she opposes the corrupt and selfish union agenda? Well, that would be just evil. Students should come first.

        Do you hate her because she fixed up the problem of college rape accusations being made into sham trials without juries and without the assumption of innocence? If so, shame on you for wanting such a perversion of justice.

        Do you hate her for being a Christian? Would you like her better as a Muslim believing that most American school children are filth?

        Do you hate that she did the womanly thing and actually had 4 children? She has a stake in the future of America. She has skin in the game. Unlike typical leftists, she has a reason to care about the future for the children.

        • (Score: 2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:04AM (5 children)

          by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:04AM (#727673)

          Nice troll, but you forgot the big one: She has no qualifications for the job...except being a rich friend of Trump.

          • (Score: -1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:54AM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:54AM (#727680)

            No qualifications, but .... she's doing a pretty decent job.

            But hang on a sec, does she really have zero qualifications? Wait, she actually has a long history of interest in, and involvement in education policy.

            Er, guess she is kinda qualified. Oops.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:55AM (3 children)

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:55AM (#727682)

            The department has ended up being mainly devoted to managing student loans. Ha, ha, only serious. That is what they do, for real. Maybe the right person comes from Citibank, Goldman Sachs, Wells Fargo...?

            If that is some conflict of interest, then a teacher is a bigger one. Teachers are also at the bottom of college graduates for IQ. We sure don't want anybody involved in teaching.

            Part of the job is being opposition to unions. Somebody has to care about the kids, and it sure isn't unions. Pissing off unions is a job requirement.

            The top several levels of the federal government are just about purely management. She ran the republican party in her state; she has management skills. The same goes for General Mattis, and we could probably swap them or any other pair of cabinet members without very much harm. Management is management is management: organize people to get shit done.

            • (Score: 2) by Whoever on Wednesday August 29 2018, @05:56AM (2 children)

              by Whoever (4524) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @05:56AM (#727691) Journal

              If that is some conflict of interest, then a teacher is a bigger one. Teachers are also at the bottom of college graduates for IQ. We sure don't want anybody involved in teaching.

              Part of the job is being opposition to unions. Somebody has to care about the kids, and it sure isn't unions. Pissing off unions is a job requirement.

              Why is it that the concept of "pay peanuts, get monkeys" does not apply to teachers? Why is it that the same people who want to suppress teacher salaries continue to decry the skills and abilities of teachers?

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @06:37AM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @06:37AM (#727701)

                It does. Most parents do not care. School is babysitting. Why waste $140k for someone with a phd in math to teach a 7 year old the colors of the rainbow?

                Home schooled kids, even when taught by untrained parents typically score

                15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests.

                https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/ [nheri.org]

              • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @07:02PM

                by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @07:02PM (#727944)

                If the number of employees needs to be reduced, any same business would pick a low-performer. They'd get rid of somebody who keeps fucking up.

                Unions ensure that this doesn't happen in schools. Instead, the most recently hired person must be laid off. Besides the directly bad effect, this discourages good people from entering the profession.

                Suppose we doubled the pay of every teacher. Would that improve the teaching? No, it would not. Pay needs to be directed to the best people. Unions prevent this. There is little incentive to do a great job. Unions have fought out attempts to change this.

                Unions generally require that a chemistry teacher get nothing more than a Spanish teacher. Unions generally require that a computer science teacher get nothing more than an English teacher.

        • (Score: 5, Informative) by Whoever on Wednesday August 29 2018, @05:52AM (2 children)

          by Whoever (4524) on Wednesday August 29 2018, @05:52AM (#727689) Journal

          Nice troll. There were several right-wing talking points that are not really connected to reality, but this one:

          Do you hate that she did the womanly thing and actually had 4 children? She has a stake in the future of America. She has skin in the game.

          That really had me laughing out loud. Her money (none of which she earned) insulates her from any of the issues that she is causing. Her children and grandchildren will never study at anything other than a private school. She has zero skin in the game.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:42PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:42PM (#727895)

            She has zero skin in the game.

            No, she has white skin in the game.

          • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @06:54PM

            by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @06:54PM (#727940)

            First of all, her descendants will not all be rich. Eventually they will be numerous and some of them will be poor. She may even get poor great grandchildren.

            Second of all, her descendants will suffer if America does badly. Even if they are not poor, they still must live in a country full of typical Americans. It is different for somebody like Merkle, who has no reason to give a damn if Germany becomes like Somalia in 40 years. Merkle will be long dead.

    • (Score: 2, Insightful) by khallow on Wednesday August 29 2018, @12:27PM (2 children)

      by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Wednesday August 29 2018, @12:27PM (#727793) Journal

      Even one school shooting is too much.

      Too much for what? The world is imperfect. There will always be some evil somewhere.

      It is an obscenity in a society on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

      Maybe that society should grow up? Hysteria doesn't make for a good basis for societal decisions.

      • (Score: -1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:46PM (1 child)

        by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:46PM (#727897)

        Maybe that society should grow up? Hysteria doesn't make for a good basis for societal decisions.

        You didn't vote for Trump, by chance? Just asking.

        • (Score: 1) by khallow on Thursday August 30 2018, @03:41AM

          by khallow (3766) Subscriber Badge on Thursday August 30 2018, @03:41AM (#728150) Journal

          You didn't vote for Trump, by chance? Just asking.

          I didn't vote for Trump by chance or on purpose. Nor am I going to.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:24PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @02:24PM (#727830)

      Even one murder is too much. Even one terrorist attack is too much.

      The problem with the 'If it saves just one...' logic is that it quickly leads to a situation where our rights are obliterated, as we're already experiencing.

    • (Score: 0) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:44PM

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 29 2018, @04:44PM (#727896)

      Even in places where you'd expect there to be the stereotypical friendliness and peace, there are school shootings, and stabbings, and bombings. Before they were tracking these things there have been situations like this. The difference is so many get tons of publicity which is what many of these people wanted. In the modern world, there is nothing you can do to stop things like this. Take away guns and they stab. Take away knifes and they bomb. Make it harder to bomb and they simply plow trucks into buildings and people. They will continue to do so until people address the actual problem. The shooting, stabbing, bombing is the symptom. Removing more and more tools (almost all of which have many legit purposes on their own, the exception being bombs) and you stop nothing. Address the mental health, unrest, disassociation, income issues, and then maybe you'll be on to something.

      Even still, you will not solve all. Norway has a nearly homogeneous population, high living standards, high health standards, generally low crime, generally strict gun laws, and STILL a nutter with a gun took out 87 people.